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Author Topic: anyone replaced Larrivee slothead ping tuners ?  (Read 10555 times)
lw216316
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« on: April 04, 2010, 08:55:41 PM »

My recently acquired Larrivee 000-60 slot head has the original PING tuners - 3 to a plate

I would like to learn what options there are for replacing them.

DROP IN replacement would be nice - I don't know if anyone makes them
so I may have to do some work to get a replacement to fit.

I like Waverly but pretty sure they would not be drop in - would need bushings etc to make fit.

I found some Grover Vintage series 138 - 3 to a plate - I don't know if they are drop in or not -

I have not been able to find the specs for the Larrivee Ping tuners
 need to know bore hole size and spacing between holes etc -

any help greatly appreciated   - many  reward

- Larry
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Zohn
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 06:34:56 AM »

a Member replaced his with Waverlies and from what I can remember they were drop-in replacements.

If you have access to vernier calipers, shouldn't be too difficult to measure the existing ones up though. If you haven't, let me know, I'll measure my SD's up for you (in millimeters) 
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 01:51:36 PM »

ZOHN - drop in Waverlys would be SWEET  bigrin
            I've been searching past posts and so far have not found any about replacing slot head ping tuners.
            ....will keep looking, I'd love to find info about Waverlys.

I don't have a tool.
If its not too much trouble I would greatly  
appreciate knowing the measurements-
shaft diameter
distance between bore holes
distance between screw holes  

I think those are the critical ones.

I found a detailed report with pictures
showing how to replace tuners on a Martin  ( 12 fret slot head ) with Waverlys.
It involved inserting bushings into the bore holes and then the Waverly shaft size would fit into the bushings.

Several tools were required -  a reamer was one.

So I guess having a tech do that for me is an option if I can't find drop ins.

- Larry
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Zohn
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 03:58:53 PM »

Diameter of each roller: 6,3mm
Distance between rollers - centre to centre: 35mm
The pitch between mounting screw 1 to 2: 31mm
between 2 and 3: 37mm
between 3 and 4: 31mm
For a "drop-in" installation the dimension from each roller to the respective mounting screw position will also be significant, but I believe could be plugged and should be able to be covered by the plates.
Hope that helps.   
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2010, 05:39:02 PM »

ZOHN - thank you so very much for taking the time to measure your guitar  +1
     

I think this is going to work out fine.

I've identified 3 possible replacements for the Ping , 3 on a plate,  tuners for the slot head on my Larrivee 000-60

1. Waverly at stew-mac for $202.50
2. Gotoh GGSR at Luthiers Mercantile intl for $64.85
3. Grover vintage series 138 - about $73

The Waverly and Gotoh are both advertised as 1/4 inch hole size   6.34999999999 mm
  so I think your 6.3 measurement is going to work out as 1/4 inch

The Waverly ad says 1 3/8 inch  ( 1.375 inch ) is the distance center to center on posts
   so your 35 mm is                      1.37795 inches   so that looks like a match to me

I don't think the distance between screw holes is going to be an exact match.
That is not a concern to me.

If the post size and distance between posts matches up then they will be a  " SLIDE IN  " replacement
and new screw holes are simple to do.

The Grovers have a larger hole size of 23/64 inch  (just under 3/8 inch)  9.524999999989713 mm.

So I'm going to drop Grovers from my short list
and concentrate on the Waverly or Gotoh.

I've got a call in to my tech and also to Jim at Trinity - I'm hoping they may have some info and a recommendation.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Waverly -

I had Waverly on my former Huss & Dalton OO-SP and I loved them.

They have a snakewood option for buttons and I think they would look wonderful on the 000-60.
I'm very partial to real wood.
I've had excellent service from Stew-mac   ( never orded from LMI. )
...and it looks like the Waverly tuners will probably SLIDE right in.

So I expect to make a decison on this soon.

I posted the details here in case someone else has an interest in it - now or in the future.
Thanks for posting your details here too ZOHN - that may help someone else.

- Larry

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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2010, 07:48:41 PM »

... details here in case someone else has an interest in it - now or in the future ...

I'm interested.  Thanks!
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2010, 07:54:12 PM »

Just a dumb fact to add here,if I'm not mistaken Larrivee has them custom made to there spec's.
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2010, 08:11:08 PM »

Just a dumb fact to add here,if I'm not mistaken Larrivee has them custom made to there spec's.

But, but, but ....   
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lw216316
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2010, 08:38:36 PM »

ZOHN - please do me one more measurement   

can you put the caliper on the button and tell me the width ?

The smallness of the Pings is something I do not like.
I'm hoping the Waverly or Gotoh tuners have buttons bigger than the Pings.

By the way,
I called a local repair shop and they have a flat fee of $50 for replacing tuners.
He was confident he could do whatever might be needed to make the Waverly or Gotoh fit.

...have not heard back yet from my tech guy.

- thanks
Larry
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 01:39:13 AM »

Today I talked with a dealer about Ping tuner replacement
and he mentioned that the Pings have a beveled roller.

So, I googled to research it and one of the hits I got was
Pings for sale on Elderly's  - they are 3 on a plate for slot head and it lists these measurements

The distance between post centers is 1 3/8". Post shafts measure 0.24" -- just a mole hair less than 1/4".

http://www.elderly.com/also/accessories/items/GTM35.htm

What really got my attention was the price  $8.95
I had heard some people call Pings cheap - I guess you get what you pay for.
Maybe that's why I disliked the Pings on my former Larrivee SD-50 and on my current 000-60.

On the Elderly list of tuners there are Waverly, Gotoh, Schaller, Grover etc...all the popular brands
guess where I found the Pings ?   under OTHER.    I guess that says something about their level of popularity.

The similar Gotoh and Grover run in the $65 - $75 range.

Is Larrivee putting $8.95 tuners on their guitars ?   rolleye yak mad

if so its a  crying shame to do that to a excellent guitar.


Based on these measurements the Waverly or Gotoh tuners I'm considering should replace the Pings just fine...
should slip right in.....but will probably have different screw hole spacing like I'm told 90 % of replacements do.

I really dislike the small buttons on the Pings -
I don't have a caliper to measure with but with a ruler they look to be about 5/8 inch across.
For comparison - the slot head tuners on my Recording King measure  13/16  and on my classical 7/8 inch.

so converting to a common denomintor
Ping = 10/16   Grover = 13/16  and  classical = 14/16

I like the feel of the larger buttons and think they allow me better torque when tuning.

- Larry

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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 02:30:20 AM »

Here's a picture from the For Sale section of the upgraded Larrivee tuners.    They look a lot better than the stock tuners to me, but no idea how they perform.



Go for the snakewood Waverlys (and send me your old tuners -- I might be able to use them in my 000-15S).
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 02:27:07 PM »

 
Quote
Here's a picture from the For Sale section of the upgraded Larrivee tuners.    They look a lot better than the stock tuners to me, but no idea how they perform.

therein lies the problem  ' NO IDEA HOW THEY PERFORM '

I don't trust them and don't want to take a chance.
I'm going with something I'm familiar with.

The buttons on those upgraded Larrivee tuners look to be the same size as on the 'regular' Pings -  small- about 5/8 inch wide.
That's a big part of why I don't like the Pings.

Quote
Go for the snakewood Waverlys (and send me your old tuners -- I might be able to use them in my 000-15S).

Right now I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the Waverlys-
I want to see if I can find out the button size measurement of the Waverlys before I committ - I think they are bigger than the Pings.
If I get them.....I'll mail you the Pings.

- Larry
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 03:31:50 PM »

   Look nice, but probably made by the same company. One makes all of the slot-head tuners for Larrivee, so must be Pings also? Are cool, but how do they work? That's where the question lies!
     Jeff
   Larry, just emailed you. Found that thing I was telling you about.
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 10:14:10 PM »

(  gitnoob, pm me your address and after the Waverlys get installed I'll mail you the Pings as you requested )

For the benefit of those of you with an interest in this subject
and any future inquires about it -

I've already provided a reference to 3 options for replacing Larrivee Ping slot head tuners

1. Waverly
2. Gotoh
3. Grover

I have decided to go with Waverly.

Here is a link to Steward-MacDonald showing ALL the Waverly slot head turners
http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/ppp/4063

From that group I have chosen the ivoroid vintage style

here - http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Waverly_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar_Tuners/Waverly_Machines_for_Slotted_Pegheads_with_Ivoroid_Vintage-style_Knob.html

 cop stop here if you are not interested in details

My 000-60 has 3 on a plate Ping tuners.
Waverly has a 3 on a plate tuner - and I was planning to get the snakewood version of them
   BUT - I found out the buttons on 3 on a plate options are all the smaller  approx 5/8 inch wide buttons

Wider - approx 3/4 inch buttons are available only on the vintage style tuners ( 2 versions of those)
as individual tuners  ( 6 to a set ) and not on snakewood.

I chose the ivory-like vintage version and got the GOLD option
My former Huss & Dalton OO-SP had individual Waverly tuners and I was very pleased with them.
They had the 'chrome' look. I think the GOLD will match my 000-60 better.

The folks at Steward MacDonald have always been very responsive and helpful to me.
This time they actually went out into the warehouse and measured the buttons for me.
Now thats CUSTOMER SERVICE  

I would have preferred the snakewood but that was not available on the wider vintage style.

The order is due to arrive in a couple of days.
I'll take some pics and post later on.

My thanks to all who have provided help in this search for Ping replacements  
 

- Larry
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 12:06:46 AM »

Very nice looking tuners, I think you will like them.
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 12:34:00 AM »

Quote
  Very nice looking tuners, I think you will like them.

Thank you sir.
They shipped today. I'm eager for them to arrive  bigrin

I think the ivory color knobs will go well with the beautiful ivory color binding around the fretboard.

The gold will match the rosewood head and the gold Larrivee logo on the head.

My search was both scientific and artistic  bigrin

- Larry
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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2010, 04:08:17 AM »

Just a dumb fact to add here,if I'm not mistaken Larrivee has them custom made to there spec's.

Custom made Pings are still Pings.  yak
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 12:36:14 PM »

Quote
Custom made Pings are still Pings.

aaaaahh, Sir...you have so eloquently expressed my similar feelings  bigrin
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2010, 03:03:08 PM »

The Ping tuners on my 000-50MT are indeed not up to the standard of the rest of the guitar.  They look and feel cheap to me. I'm amazed that a guitar in the price range of a 000-50 / 000-60 would come with tuners that are so obviously inferior.   They are functional but that's about it.   I'll be watching the forum to see how the Waverlies work out for you.  I had been considering the Grover's since the ones I put on my F III seem to be just fine for a lot less $$$.
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2010, 03:14:33 PM »

The Ping tuners on my 000-50MT are indeed not up to the standard of the rest of the guitar.  They look and feel cheap to me. I'm amazed that a guitar in the price range of a 000-50 / 000-60 would come with tuners that are so obviously inferior.   They are functional but that's about it.   I'll be watching the forum to see how the Waverlies work out for you.  I had been considering the Grover's since the ones I put on my F III seem to be just fine for a lot less $$$.

I must have got a good set. I find mine to be just fine, whoever made them. They tune and detune easily and accurately and if I haven't played it for a week or so ... it's still in tune. Am I missing something here?
In the end, however, swapping out perfectly good tuning machines for a machine that is perceived to be better is a respected tradition and a recognized first step towards gearheadedness. I remember when Schaller tuners first appeared or got popular way back when and gearheaded folks began swapping out their Grovers with disdainful remarks towards them. So it goes. What I don't get and dislike is the backhanded swats at the builder for using the dreaded passé machines. Who cares? Shut up and change them. 
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