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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2010, 03:22:03 AM »

ST mostly because that is my cost,well almost it doesn't include shipping.So out of pocket would only be my shipping cost.
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« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2010, 03:33:04 AM »

unclrob,

Your cost is not what it costs you.

Not to nit-pick here but, if you were to write-off a bad debt from a customer, you would write off the face value of the invoice. At least I'm pretty sure that's what your accountant would tell you.

If you charge $100 for something, and you earn it - your cost, or your time or your out of pocket expenses are immaterial.

Put another way - if I ask you to install some custom part
and you do
and I don't pay you
and you have no recourse
and you either leave it in, and write it off,
or you double you labour and remove it
and you manage to convince your supplier to take it back
and you pay shipping both ways
and you pay some kind of restocking charge...

did your 50% cover that?

I don't see the difference to the customer whether you ask for 50% or 100%.
If you gave them the option
- you can buy that part wherever you want and I'll install if for you for $$$ or
- I can buy that part for you...

In my mind, if you accept anything less than 100% retail for the part as a deposit - you are financing the customer.

In my mind, your conditions have to be fair enough and favourable enough (to you) that you never have to regret entering into the deal if the customer bails out and it has to be fair enough and favourable enough to your customer that s/he has a strong incentive to complete the deal.
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2010, 03:35:16 AM »

WOW now thats something to think about.Thankyou.
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JOYCEfromNS
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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2010, 04:15:12 AM »



if you accept anything less than 100% retail for the part as a deposit - you are financing the customer.

In my mind, your conditions have to be fair enough and favourable enough (to you) that you never have to regret entering into the deal if the customer bails out and it has to be fair enough and favourable enough to your customer that s/he has a strong incentive to complete the deal.

 
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2010, 06:47:58 PM »

Just an update on my deadline.NO ONE CALLED.So today I will be removing all parts that I purchased and installed and moving the rest to my shed.
Also according to my lawyer bud placing leans will be useless.I will be suppling him with all  names and address's so he can send out letters that due to there abandenment of there guitars no warranty will be extended to them and legally we are not responcable for the care and feeding nor storage other then simple safe keeping by law.After the letters go out we will be sueing each owner for the right of possession due to abandument.

So like big fun in the city.Luckally I don't have to take real money out of pocket for this my lawyer and I have worked out a trade of service's.
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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2010, 06:54:12 PM »

Hi unclrob,

I wouldn't invest any labour to remove parts that you purchased and installed. Instead, I would wait to see if all the lawyerin' brings anyone to the table in which case you might recover more if things are complete. Besides - if you manage to gain possession for abandonment, you may well get more money for the instruments with the improvements intact.

Putting more work into the instruments (to remove stuff) just feels like throwing good effort after bad. That is, why invest more labour only to decrease the value of an asset the you may eventually own?

And last - if any of this activity appears before a judge, it might appear that you were being vindictive and I can't see that helping anything. Of course, you might want to run that idea by your lawyer.


Just an update on my deadline.NO ONE CALLED.So today I will be removing all parts that I purchased and installed and moving the rest to my shed.
Also according to my lawyer bud placing leans will be useless.I will be suppling him with all  names and address's so he can send out letters that due to there abandenment of there guitars no warranty will be extended to them and legally we are not responcable for the care and feeding nor storage other then simple safe keeping by law.After the letters go out we will be sueing each owner for the right of possession due to abandument.

So like big fun in the city.Luckally I don't have to take real money out of pocket for this my lawyer and I have worked out a trade of service's.
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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2010, 06:57:01 PM »

Gotta say uncle I'm with ST on this one I wouldn't remove just yet either. Can always do so later if necessary
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2010, 08:53:52 PM »

Well lucky for me I didn't proceed in the removall of my parts.Unfortunately a client called to tell me that his wife and he are .....not getting along and ........in the course of agreeing to disagree and too much stupidity could he bring his guitars over as they were caught in the crossfire.I did get a 50% deposit towards labor for the time being{got in cash as I'm not sure about a check at this time}.So I will be gluing a couple of headstocks,some top seperation and at least 5 boot holes both in tops and backs.This was a quike visual inspection and if I need more deposit he will take care of it right away.I will also be storing all but one guitar when I'm done at $150. per month plus once I get an added quote from my insurance company he will be paying these fee's also.2 of the piece's are valued over 10K.
Who ever said life is boring.
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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2010, 09:00:48 PM »

Well lucky for me I didn't proceed in the removall of my parts.Unfortunately a client called to tell me that his wife and he are .....not getting along and ........in the course of agreeing to disagree and too much stupidity could he bring his guitars over as they were caught in the crossfire.I did get a 50% deposit towards labor for the time being{got in cash as I'm not sure about a check at this time}.So I will be gluing a couple of headstocks,some top seperation and at least 5 boot holes both in tops and backs.This was a quike visual inspection and if I need more deposit he will take care of it right away.I will also be storing all but one guitar when I'm done at $150. per month plus once I get an added quote from my insurance company he will be paying these fee's also.2 of the piece's are valued over 10K.
Who ever said life is boring.

Sweet!!!
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cc407
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2010, 09:55:59 PM »

I guess if it was my first visit to the repair place, I might be a little put off.
I also sympathize with people that render services.
I would assume that bad experiences must have lead to the decision to require a deposit.
It also might make me a little more critical when I return, and I'm being honest
in saying that I think the deposit requirement might predispose me toward a colder feeling.
I guess if one of my tried and true repair guys required that, I'd be surprised
but compliant.
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2010, 01:04:18 AM »

The bottom line is the customer is going to have to pay for the work sooner or later so if you get a deposit they're just paying part of the total sooner, seems fair to me.
        
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2010, 01:55:54 AM »

Deposits are not ever going to be a problem. If someone wants your service, you are hurting your reputation by being too accommodating and available. If you do good work and stand behind it consistently your policies can be enforced firmly and on your terms.I personally know of no one who will provide me a service or product that does not have a signed agreement and a deposit require. If they don't I question why. If they tell me they can get right on it and I have no referral, I am suspicious. With a referral I would be even more surprised. I look for quality work and want assurances it'll be done right without me having to bring it back even once nuff said.

Others may be happy to take their instrument to a walk in service center without a referral, and just leave their guitar or even wait for it. I prefer professionals to inspect it, maybe have me play a couple tunes and then explain what I expect. I expect to get a written estimate and pay for estimated parts if I didn't bring them as well as a deposit. I also expect a estimated time of completion and an understanding I will be notified of any other issues that arise by way of related work or suggested additions. The amusing thing is I also fully expect it to take longer than estimated too.

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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2010, 03:06:26 AM »

cc407 that is why I posted the questin and I thank you for your honesty its what I was looking for.Most of my work come's via referals and the price quoted is for the most part the price billed.Yes sometime's something will come up but thats very rare.I due require a checkup of my work at no extra charge after 3-4 weeks because things do change and this is covered under my warranty{which is a year}.I can process 5-8 jobs a day and unless its a structural repair most jobs are turned around in 24 hours.
I also spent some time today talking with a bunch of my clients to get there opinion.All have said that they have no problem with a deposit and have said they will inform all referals.
Why these 18 people have not come foward to pickup there instruments I don't know.I'm the type of person that as long as you respect me enough to call and say "hey I'm in a bit of a bind and can't pick up my stuff" I'm more then happy to work with you,hell I'd arange payments if that would help.But the most expencive repair I'm sitting on is $275 and the lowest is $60.Those price's would be doulbe any where else.
The reason I'm taking legal action now is that NONE of them returned my phone call.Go figure!
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A REPAIRPERSON,Still Unclrob
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 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2010, 07:13:29 AM »

Unclrob,
If these customers really don't want to pay to get their guitars back, maybe they would agree (or your lawyer could make them agree) to sell them to you for the price of work done -- then you could legally sell them to recoup some of your costs.  Just an idea -- I'm not a lawyer as you can probably tell by this idea!  
-ark
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2010, 11:42:09 AM »

I agree with some of the other posts that the instrument itself should be the deposit and surely if customers are kept informed of the rules when they leave instruments with you then you should be within your rights to recoup your costs and get your storage space back by selling the guitars. When I dropped my guitar off for repairs recently I would happily have paid up-front but there was no need as the guitar I was leaving is worth considerably more than the cost of those repairs. When Bob phoned me to tell me my guitar was ready I couldn't get there quick enough! I don't know what makes people not want their instruments back but IMO there should be a time limit after which the guitars are disposed of and any monies used to pay the unpaid bill. Surely that is common sense? Sorry I am ignorant when it comes to US laws but I'm sure that would be ok in the UK.
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2010, 04:03:00 PM »

The legalities are different in every state unfortunately.We'll see what happens when they get the legal notice.I trully hate this s**t.I'm many things a jerk,an a**hole,opinionated,super nice guy,nasty b**tard and so on.I even tell everyone that I trully hate everyone{which was going to be the name of a band}.BUT damn.
Again thankyou for your opinions.
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 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
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« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2010, 05:50:13 PM »

   Hey Rob. Sounds like you're a normal person! We all have those qualities in us, just chose for when to show them?
   I really think STs on to something with all he's said. You made the rightmove with the last 2 guitars you just took in. His logic about 100% for parts makes sense too. I was going to buy my tuners & send them to Jim to install on my F-IV, as I don't think he carries them. He asked me for a reference to order them, so thought it best if I bought them. Had brought up having more people interested in tuner upgrades to make a purchase of 3+, but that seems to have faded away. I would be paying either Stew-Mac's or LMII's price & just the charge of Jim putting them in. Almost like you paying out of pocket for them & putting them in. You're still fronting the money for the tuners, so out of pocket. Take the 100% for parts (not your cost;add a little besides installation). Makes sense.
   Glad you didn't waste your time doing double-duty. Taking out the parts you already installed. Then might have to put them back in? Would you charge for twice the work? Don't know how many guitars you're sitting on, but must be a good amount to get to this point.
   And I like the way ST puts each point in a new line. Have to try that. Then, maybe people will read more of my posts? I was told that alot of people don't like to read long posts, many just skimming real quick or ignoring them. ST, your method draws you in, waiting to read each line. Must be why the Serial #, history, etc. thread turned out so well. A well organized man! Now, where did I just put my glasses?
   Now Rob, go get 'em, tiger!!
     Jeff
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« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2010, 06:14:49 PM »

In all the years I've been at this I've never had to have a written agreement and now it seems I may need to.I also have never not delivered when I promised.I really don't want to take possion of this stuff,which by default I already have.I understand if you lost your job or since I'm in a college town you have class's and other stuff come up but what I don't understand is how you can't simply pick up the phone and inform me whats going on so we can make arrangments.Also to not return a call that say's I will be starting legal action and please respond so we can work this out is almost beyond on me,but since I believe most people are stupid I kinda understand.
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« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2010, 07:17:03 PM »

   Rob, as Dan would say, think you hit the nail on the head! ohmy
     Jeff
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« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2010, 08:02:42 PM »

   Rob, as Dan would say, think you hit the nail on the head! ohmy
     Jeff

I like this length post better than your last one.       
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