F-III bridge plate + K&K mini different?

[unclrob]

Have you considered a baggs Ibeam?

[dermot]

You would need at least 7/8" from the center of the pin hole to the front of the bridge plate to have enough room to install the transducer.

much the same issues mounting a K&K on this orignal '31 OM18 (posted by Ted Hudson on UMGF's henk-0-gram thread) i think;

[jeremy3220]

Now that's what a bridge plate should look like.

[Danny]

Now that's what a bridge plate should look like.

Well, minus the cracks that are spreading between the pin holes.

[BenF]

Now that's what a bridge plate should look like.

But there is a similar amount of wood in front of the pin holes as on the forum III plate, just not 2 miles behind it.  This makes me wonder whether there really is a potential problem other than fitting a K&K PUP, as others suggest.  If the Martin bridge plate is original, it has survived 80 years without the ball ends getting close to the spruce?

[Mr_LV19E]

Have you considered a baggs Ibeam?

No but I did consider the B-Band, I really wanted a passive PUP for this guitar though.

Looks like they got the transducer a little close to the pin holes on my LV-19, but this pickup works great. You have to loosen the strings to get at the battery though.

[unclrob]

You can get a passive one but you would need the offboard preamp.I've installed a BUNCH of these with very happy results.Fairly natural tone.

[eded]

Have you considered a baggs Ibeam?

Not since hearing the K&K.  Actually, I haven't considered any others since hearing the K&K.  No quack, not absolutely necessary to have a preamp, great sound, no batteries...  why continue looking?

Ed

[Randy_R]

While it may not be optimal, has anyone tried a set of K&K behind the bridge pins of their FIII instead?

[Mr_LV19E]

While it may not be optimal, has anyone tried a set of K&K behind the bridge pins of their FIII instead?

K&K recommends not putting them behind the bridge pins (makes the guitar sound distant), if you don't have enough bridge plate in front of the pins they're alternate method is to mount them to the sound board as close to the saddle as possable. Jim felt pretty strongly against gluing them to the sound board.

The K&K website was offline over the weekend so I really didn't have any access to additional info but since reading through their FAQ section I have learned quite a bit.

FYI, K&K states if you decide to use the double stick tape method for attachment you lose 30% volume output over the glue method.

[jeremy3220]

But there is a similar amount of wood in front of the pin holes as on the forum III plate, just not 2 miles behind it.  This makes me wonder whether there really is a potential problem other than fitting a K&K PUP, as others suggest.  If the Martin bridge plate is original, it has survived 80 years without the ball ends getting close to the spruce?

Yeah the ball ends shouldn't move 1/4" forward. If they did you'd have more obvious problems to deal with too.

  Well, minus the cracks that are spreading between the pin holes.

Of course but the solution isn't more bridge plate.

[GA-ME]

But there is a similar amount of wood in front of the pin holes as on the forum III plate, just not 2 miles behind it.  This makes me wonder whether there really is a potential problem other than fitting a K&K PUP, as others suggest.  If the Martin bridge plate is original, it has survived 80 years without the ball ends getting close to the spruce?

It appears that the worn and damaged holes in the Martin bridge plate are more than double the size of the holes in the Larrivee and that there is still more real estate in front of the worn/damaged pin holes on the Martin than there is on the Larry. It looks like at least three of those pin holes in the Martin, if superimposed over the Larry center on center( of the original hole), would be into the spruce. Plus, if the rosewood plate cracks along a seam like the Martin plate did, there is very little glue surface towards the front 1/4" to reamain bonded under the tension. It is something I'd keep an eye on and it would make me be a bit more careful on restrings in making sure the ball end is seated tghtly against the plate so sawing action is minimized when tuning up to pitch. It may or may not be a problem in the future, but it is worth keeping tabs on.

[Danny]

     GA_ME "It is something I'd keep an eye on and it would make me be a bit more careful on restrings in making sure the ball end is seated tghtly against the plate so sawing action is minimized when tuning up to pitch. It may or may not be a problem in the future, but it is worth keeping tabs on."

    This is a big concern regardless of the guitar you may own. Dan Erlewine said tha a very high percentage of the guitars brought to him for repairs are strung up incorrectly. I think it was like 70% or so. That ball end needs to be tucked up tight and not dangling down at all. It can cause buzzing and a constant "sawing" of the plate and then the top by the wound strings. As you keep adjusting the tuning you are pulling the string a bit more each time and cutting the plate.
     I do my best to feel inside and make sure that ball it up tight against the plate every time I change strings.

[GA-ME]

Dan, I usually use my pin to push the ball into the pin hole while I hold tension on the string. The wound strings do in fact function as a saw if you leave them dangling and then pull them up when turning the machine head.

[Danny]

  I do that as well. But the larger wound strings I try to feel on the plate itself. Also bending the string on the ball end towards the neck will help it seat in place.

[GA-ME]

Dan, it's not much of an issue on my guitars as I prep them for unslotted pins so strings just pop into the slot on the bridge plate and stay there when a bit of tenson is on the string.

[Danny]

Dan, it's not much of an issue on my guitars as I prep them for unslotted pins so strings just pop into the slot on the bridge plate and stay there when a bit of tenson is on the string.

I wanted to do that on this Maple/Koa refinish I'm completing right now. But I'm jazzed up and am going to make it playable ASAP and make changes later on.

[Blue in VT]

Dan, it's not much of an issue on my guitars as I prep them for unslotted pins so strings just pop into the slot on the bridge plate and stay there when a bit of tenson is on the string.

Yeah Slotting the bridge is one of those things that I can't understand why all guitar makers don't do...it just makes since...I've slotted a couple of my guitars myself and it was wicked easy and I feel much better about restringing and the long term longevity of my bridge plate.

Cheers,

Blue

[eded]

  Also bending the string on the ball end towards the neck will help it seat in place.

I've been doing this for years...  part of the string change ritual.  Before the string goes in, I use needle nose pliers to just bend the ball back a tiny bit.  So that the string is on tangent with the curve of the ball.  Then, I make sure it is in place before I put the pin in.

Ed

[jeremy3220]

It appears that the worn and damaged holes in the Martin bridge plate are more than double the size of the holes in the Larrivee and that there is still more real estate in front of the worn/damaged pin holes on the Martin than there is on the Larry.

I don't know. There should be about 29/64" between each of those pin holes and I'd guess by the pic that there is at least that much distance to the front of the plate. There maybe 1/2" to the front of the plate which should be the same distance from the center of the pins on the Martin to the front of its plate(if memory serves me correct)... Of course someone could measure it... not that it matters much... ok, I'm done.