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Author Topic: F-III bridge plate + K&K mini different?  (Read 7607 times)
Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2010, 05:52:24 PM »

Quote MrLV"My main purpose in starting this thread was to make others aware of the potential issues of installing a K&K to their F-III."

Thats what I thought when I read it.
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 05:54:43 PM »

  Roger

 I have no doubt that you have all the experience and ingenuity needed to figure it all out.    

I was a little intimidated when I installed my K & K and so I used instructions that were touted to be "idiot proof".      I didn't even try to use the instructions that came with the unit.   The frettech instructions with color photos was a big help to me and to others who have used them.  As long as you get 'er done that's all that matters.   I am sure you will like the result when you've finished.  

 Will you be playing through an amp or using a PA ?   You may need a pre-amp;  The signal is not that strong with just the transducers and no boost.   But you probably already knew that.
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Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2010, 06:30:37 PM »

  The first part of your post looks like something I could be saying. Have any of your friends or family called you "MacGyver"? I never watched a full episode of that show , but I know he is resourceful and quick to find a fix.
               I've been thinking it may be a good idea to have a "Tips" thread. Where anyone could post an idea that may benefit others who do some of their own repairs. At the same time unclrob and others could provide further insight into problems with a particular "tip" or add to it.  Anyway if we all "play nice" I think it would be a help to the forum.
Have any of your friends or family called you "MacGyver"? I believe I have heard that before, but mostly I have been called other names  rolleye
I think a tips thread (it would have to be a sticky) is a great idea.
  Roger

 I have no doubt that you have all the experience and ingenuity needed to figure it all out.   

I was a little intimidated when I installed my K & K and so I used instructions that were touted to be "idiot proof".      I didn't even try to use the instructions that came with the unit.   The frettech instructions with color photos was a big help to me and to others who have used them.  As long as you get 'er done that's all that matters.   I am sure you will like the result when you've finished.   

 Will you be playing through an amp or using a PA ?   You may need a pre-amp;  The signal is not that strong with just the transducers and no boost.   But you probably already knew that.
Lynn, I forgot that I had that link until you mentioned it, thanks. I will definitly use that method over the printed ones that came with the PUP.
I plugged the PUP into my Genz Benz Shenandoah Jr (great little amp BTW) before I ever started the instalation just to be sure the PUP was working, I was surprised at the output level being as it is a passive PUP.  I do have a Fishman Pro-EQ pre-amp that I plan on using with it.
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2010, 06:38:10 PM »

I appreciate everyones input but I didn't start this thread to cause a battle over how  Larrivee decides to build its guitars, just to let others know that the installation will not be a simple one.

It's not a battle over how they decide to build guitars to merely note that they made a mistake in placement of the bridge plate. I really don't think they planned to have most of the bridge sitting forward of the bridge plate. For the life of me, I fail to understand why some forumites find the need to justify or explain away mistakes from Larrivee. The only reasonable explanation for the positioning of the plate is error in placement. When somebody laid out the original jigs for bracing placement on these guitars they simply made a small calculation error. If they were off by another 1/4", or so, the ball ends would have ended up in the spruce. It has already been noted that the build turnaround, from order to delivery, for these guitars, was very fast. Speed generally decreases accuracy in any task. It's not the end of the world and for the time being it is functional. However, anyone who thinks it's a good idea to have slotted pins jamming the ball ends up against a mere 1/4" or so of rosewood, with the grain running parallel to the holes, either doesn't understand the stresses present or chooses  to not think critically about the situation.  I'm just saying it was likely an error. Everyone makes mistakes. The guitars are still playable, and they came in at a great price, for sure. But none of that changes the fact that the bridge plate placement surely looks like error. Sheesh, reality isn't that scary..........................
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Danny
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2010, 06:42:00 PM »

Have any of your friends or family called you "MacGyver"? I believe I have heard that before, but mostly I have been called other names  rolleye
I think a tips thread (it would have to be a sticky) is a great idea.

                             Yes I have been called "MacGyver", but mostly Dependable Dan. Not as much anymore since I'm not going out on the jobs as much. That may change soon though.

          As far as "tips" I have been applying what I have learned for 40 years as a craftsman into working on guitars. Sometimes I fail, sometimes over and over again. But then other times I make a tool or use a method that is familiar and it adapts just fine.
          Actually building a guitar or making a living at it as unclrob does would be out of the question for me. But I'm starting to do things I would not have even thought of doing on my own a year ago.
          
             (Roger, thanks for the update you provided for us F4 folks That was welcome news and a big relief to know they were on the radar.)
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2010, 07:42:35 PM »

It's not a battle over how they decide to build guitars to merely note that they made a mistake in placement of the bridge plate. I really don't think they planned to have most of the bridge sitting forward of the bridge plate. For the life of me, I fail to understand why some forumites find the need to justify or explain away mistakes from Larrivee. The only reasonable explanation for the positioning of the plate is error in placement. When somebody laid out the original jigs for bracing placement on these guitars they simply made a small calculation error. If they were off by another 1/4", or so, the ball ends would have ended up in the spruce. It has already been noted that the build turnaround, from order to delivery, for these guitars, was very fast. Speed generally decreases accuracy in any task. It's not the end of the world and for the time being it is functional. However, anyone who thinks it's a good idea to have slotted pins jamming the ball ends up against a mere 1/4" or so of rosewood, with the grain running parallel to the holes, either doesn't understand the stresses present or chooses  to not think critically about the situation.  I'm just saying it was likely an error. Everyone makes mistakes. The guitars are still playable, and they came in at a great price, for sure. But none of that changes the fact that the bridge plate placement surely looks like error. Sheesh, reality isn't that scary..........................

GA-ME, to be clear I agree that it doesn't look right and it was possably an error on Larrivees part, correct me if I am wrong but I thought the bridge plate was supposed to be under the entire bridge (this is clearly not the case here).  I also know that they didn't design the bridge plate for aftermarket PUP installation, but I can without a doubt say "I don't know enough about guitar construction to make that call". You, unclrob and others  on the other hand have "hands on experience"
I should have expected some critique on larrivees methods when I posted the picture, I just wanted to make my intentions clear that all I wanted to do is help others.
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2010, 08:00:23 PM »

Roger, if I were to install a pup in my forum III, I would likely have gone this route due to general support for it on this forum as a great pickup and easy to install. I appreciate this thread hugely, having probably saved me some cash in the long term.

Ben.
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2010, 08:14:01 PM »

GA-ME, to be clear I agree that it doesn't look right and it was possably an error on Larrivees part, correct me if I am wrong but I thought the bridge plate was supposed to be under the entire bridge (this is clearly not the case here).  I also know that they didn't design the bridge plate for aftermarket PUP installation, but I can without a doubt say "I don't know enough about guitar construction to make that call". You, unclrob and others  on the other hand have "hands on experience"
I should have expected some critique on larrivees methods when I posted the picture, I just wanted to make my intentions clear that all I wanted to do is help others.


Roger, I think most folks would be glad you posted the information. It may save folks the hassle of ordering a pickup system that ordinarily would be compatible, but will not work for the F III application without modifications to the top. It is also useful because it will alert Forum III owners to the fact that they should probably pay more attention to the bridge plate than normally would be called for. It wouldn't take that long under certain conditions for a string to be out of the plate and into the spruce with that positioning. It would be advisable to peek inside with a mirror from time to time to make sure the strings haven't made it to the spruce.
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2010, 08:55:18 PM »

correct me if I am wrong but I thought the bridge plate was supposed to be under the entire bridge (this is clearly not the case here). 

It's actually a matter of preference. The bridge plate on pre-war Martins did not extend quite as far back as the belly on the bridge. Also with most designs the wings of the bridge  will extend over the legs of X so the bridge plate certainly won't cover the entire footprint of the bridge. The pin holes do seem a bit too close to the front of the plate but the real issue for me is all that unnecessary weight behind the pins. I personally don't think the bridge plate should be used as a brace in the traditional sense because it is so low. And low wide braces are the least effective for structure and tone purposes... they are typically anyway; sometimes raising the impedance is a good thing.
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AZLiberty
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2010, 09:46:03 PM »

All this drama.  What's wrong with an old fashioned ribbon transducer under the saddle?
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2010, 09:48:06 PM »

I appreciate everyones input but I didn't start this thread to cause a battle over how  Larrivee decides to build its guitars,

That thought never crossed my mind.  It is the reality of public forums, though.  Any conversation can morph to include stuff you never thought would be part of *that* conversation.    I don't think anyone is being hostile towards Larrivee (the company) in this thread.  It all seems like pretty healthy discussion, to me.  I'm sure *if* there is ever an issue, they will stand behind their product.

Ed
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2010, 09:49:18 PM »

All this drama.  What's wrong with an old fashioned ribbon transducer under the saddle?

The sound. 

Ed
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Danny
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2010, 11:00:35 PM »

All this drama.  What's wrong with an old fashioned ribbon transducer under the saddle?
  The ribbon can be a hassle in getting the acoustic unplugged sound as good as if it didn't have it as well.
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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2010, 01:45:42 AM »

Fine.

I like the sound (acoustic and electric) from the Fishman undersadle unit in my OM-03RE. 
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« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2010, 02:13:20 AM »

The D-09 I had sounded bad with the Fishman. I just took it out and made a bone saddle, then it was fine.
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« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2010, 02:18:34 AM »

I just want to have a nice pick-up so if I'm ever at an Eagles concert and they ask me to come up and join them I'll be able to plug right in.
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Roger


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« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2010, 02:20:00 AM »

I just want to have a nice pick-up so if I'm ever at an Eagles concert and they ask me to come up and join them I'll be able to plug right in.
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« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2010, 02:27:30 AM »



Something funny?
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Roger


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Danny
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2010, 02:30:32 AM »

Oh no, not really. Tell Glen that Danny says howdy.
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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2010, 02:57:00 AM »

Oh no, not really. Tell Glen that Danny says howdy.

 

Actually, my brother was very good friends with Glen in high school and they used to jam in our basement, I filled in on drums a couple times.
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Roger


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