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Author Topic: Forum III All Hog gets "TONERITED"... Roadtrip??  (Read 13981 times)
Safricanplayer
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« on: February 13, 2010, 02:51:00 AM »

It you browse around other Forum's you've probably stumbled across a thread or two discussing the ToneRite unit, and it's effect on "opening up" guitars. As the owner of a glorious Mcknight Slope Dred, I have a high regard for Tim Mcknight and his perspective on all things relating to acoustic guitars. Having recently seen an ad in one of the acoustic guitar magazines for ToneRite, I noticed one of Tim's guitars in the ad. I contacted Tim for his opinion on the ToneRite and it's effect on the guitars he's used it on, and long story short ......He's a believer!!

I ordered a ToneRite and had to wait for the unit as it was backordered. It finally arrived 2 weeks ago, and since then the experiment has been going ahead at full steam. While it has IMHO been effective on my recently acquired Martin 000-18 Norman Blake and an OM-21 Special Martin, the results have flat out been amazing on my Forum III all hog. It's gone from a "nice" guitar that one hopes will grow into itself....to a flat out superb instrument with increased volume, sustain and a 'liveliness' that just puts a smile on my face everytime I pick it up to play. This guitar has literally opened up in a manner that I would never have imagined possible. I don't know how many years and hours of playing time it would have taken to get to this point.......but I'm absolutely thrilled with the results. 

Probably like many of you I've tried different strings, bone saddle's, pins etc., in an effort to coax the most from my guitars, but the ToneRite was worth every penny of it's $150 cost, IMHO. I'd consider putting the unit out on a road trip (especially to Forum III owners) if there's interest here.

 ~ Ray ~   
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2010, 03:25:50 AM »

I've seen it on other forums but what I don't get is: is it a one shot treatment or do you have to do it periodically? I don't have a III but I have another one I would be interested in trying it on.

Count me in.

f
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2010, 03:42:40 AM »

I haven't read that many other forum's can you post a link I'd like to get educated.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2010, 03:45:34 AM »

F,

For a roadtrip to be worth the admin and usage, I was thinking about charging $15 to rent the unit for a week or $20 for 10 days plus the cost of Fedex / UPS shipping to the next member (so we have a tracking number).

It's recommended that you run the unit for a minimum 72 hours initially. They do suggest you come back around and do it again later, but I found the most improvement on the Larrivee during the first 72 hours. A week would essentially give someone the chance to run 2 guitars thru the process and 10 day's would allow time for 3 guitars. A week would also allow a guitar to run for 72 - 84 hours on maximum vibration (the unit has a slider which modulates the strength of the vibrations) and then you could spend the next 72 at a lower vibration level.

The unit running for 72 hours on max vibration would essentially give you the most 'bang for your buck'. Running the unit at lower vibration levels is said to produce more of a 'sweetness'.

Hope that helps clarify things..
 
 ~ Ray ~
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2010, 03:49:22 AM »

I haven't read that many other forum's can you post a link I'd like to get educated.

It's been discussed at length on the UMGF.com as well as the Collings Forum. Just run a seach for 'ToneRite'. Fascinating stuff

 ~ Ray ~

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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 04:56:09 AM »

But doesn't it take some of the fun out doin it yourself.Don't take this the wrong way its kinda cool sort of the high tech version of resting you guitar in front of your stereo speakers while playing music thru them.I'll come into the 21st century one day.
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 05:04:13 AM »

That's a very kind offer...I would love to see what it could do for my F III HOG!  Count me in!

I saw on another post how you could get a similar effect by somehow using an aquarium air pump. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 05:39:49 AM »

Hey Ray,

Are you sure that the Tonerite was delivered to the correct address.  I didnt get my customary ups notice     
(hope you remember what I am talking about,  it is related to both of your F-III's)

I have been curious about the Tonerite, especially for my 'Original' Forum OM, MT.
Your report and faith in Tim's opinion is adding to that TAS. 

Larry Pattis is kind of local to me and may let me borrow his soon.
If that falls through, put me on your Tonerite Lease List if you do decide to give it a road trip.


............I saw on another post how you could get a similar effect by somehow using an aquarium air pump. 

To the question about air pumps use,  I am an avid aquarist (is that a word?).
So I tried a pump for awhile on my L-03-BW.  . . .  Lots of fiddliing to get a mounting that sort of works.
Altho my Blackwood 6 years old, it has not been a daily player......till now.
The bass end of this guitar has always been just a bit muted.  Like Ray said,  the guitar wanted to grow into itself.
Noticeable improvement. I know this guitar and have never had the volume and especially clarity of the bass strings.
There is also a richness in the harmonics and overtones that is new and improved.
The disadvantge of the air pump is mounting it correctly to get the best effect.  The Tonerite appears to have a molded base that attaches correctly to the strings for best energy transfer.  Based on the reports on other sites, tha tonerite is reasonably quiet.  The air pump system is not.  The mounting issues are why I have not used this idea on my other guitars.

ds 
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2010, 07:40:16 AM »

Hey Ray,

Are you sure that the Tonerite was delivered to the correct address.  I didnt get my customary ups notice     
(hope you remember what I am talking about,  it is related to both of your F-III's)

I have been curious about the Tonerite, especially for my 'Original' Forum OM, MT.
Your report and faith in Tim's opinion is adding to that TAS. 

Larry Pattis is kind of local to me and may let me borrow his soon.
If that falls through, put me on your Tonerite Lease List if you do decide to give it a road trip.

DS,
Actually the ToneRite being on back order took so long, I thought for a bit you may have hijacked my package again.    In any event, I HIGHLY recommend you try the unit. I don't know whether the fact that my guitar is relatively new, being that Larrivee built me another Forum III after everyone got theirs, is contributing to the huge improvement I sense, or whether all hog just responds particularly well. In either event, I can't wait for another Forum III guitar to get the "ToneRite" treatment, as I'm absolutely convinced that my Forum III has blossomed into what I would have hoped it might be in 3 - 5 years. If my ears are shot, I need another Forumite to set me straight blush

I'd be more than happy to send it your way if Larry can't help you out. Either way.......you gotta try this!!

 ~ Ray ~
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 07:55:05 AM »

But doesn't it take some of the fun out doin it yourself.Don't take this the wrong way its kinda cool sort of the high tech version of resting you guitar in front of your stereo speakers while playing music thru them.I'll come into the 21st century one day.

You're too old School Rob I hear you, but I gotta tell you, when you've some nice guitar in your arsenal, it get's mighty tempting to pick up the best sounding ones's at the expense of the new ones that might be a little tight and not quite where you feel they could be tonally. I think a lot of folks sell guitars too early, because they don't have the patience to wait for the guitar to mature into it's best. The ToneRite, IMHO goes a long way in solving that problem. I don't know if I can't honestly say I would have had the patience to hold onto my all hog Forum III (although I've always been in love with the way it looks ) prior to subjecting it to the ToneRite treatment. Today, along with my Mcknight, it's the only other guitar that I could not be talked into selling

Just my 2 cents...

 ~ Ray ~ 
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2010, 03:51:33 PM »

Ray yes very old school.The song "Old and in the way" comes to mind.
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2010, 04:01:02 PM »

I've seen it on other forums but what I don't get is: is it a one shot treatment or do you have to do it periodically? I don't have a III but I have another one I would be interested in trying it on.

Count me in.

f

From the ToneRite website...

Our research shows that at a minimum the ToneRite® should be used for at least 72 hours on full power for an initial treatment.
Most users have found that two or three treatments of 72 hours provides the optimal results for attaining their instruments top potential. After these initial treatments using the ToneRite® a few times a week and for about an hour before you play will provide excellent results as far as maintaining your instruments tone.  The ToneRite® is completely safe to use whenever you are not playing your instrument and for the best results many players choose to leave the ToneRite® on whenever they are not playing their instrument.
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2010, 04:04:24 PM »

Thanks for the post Ray, I didn't know of this product but it looks like a no brainer.  $150 to get all your guitars to sound fuller, sweeter.
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2010, 04:27:18 PM »

   I've been talking about these Tonerites for a while now. McKnight guitars has backed them for over a year & swears by them. Had this discussion with Jeremy, he giving his opinion about how to break in a guitar & these units. We all know what that is & unless you have a physics degree, it can't be countered. And, you can use them again even after the first time, whenever you feel the need. Don't know why if you've already "broken in" the top? My days of puttings guitars in front of my BIG speakers & playing low bass notes loudly are over. The next generation, Spock?
     Jeff
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2010, 05:07:08 PM »

Sign me up, Ray. I'm definitly interested in treating my quiet and shy LSV-11.

I'm guessing that adjusting the vibration frequency lets you "ballpark" a certain note? My guitar (and I'm guessing many accoustics) resonates strongly at "A" so it seems that frequency would loosen up them stiff fibers the most efficiently.

Please email me at jpmist at gmail dot com when you get going.

Thanks!

John


F,

For a roadtrip to be worth the admin and usage, I was thinking about charging $15 to rent the unit for a week or $20 for 10 days plus the cost of Fedex / UPS shipping to the next member (so we have a tracking number).

It's recommended that you run the unit for a minimum 72 hours initially. They do suggest you come back around and do it again later, but I found the most improvement on the Larrivee during the first 72 hours. A week would essentially give someone the chance to run 2 guitars thru the process and 10 day's would allow time for 3 guitars. A week would also allow a guitar to run for 72 - 84 hours on maximum vibration (the unit has a slider which modulates the strength of the vibrations) and then you could spend the next 72 at a lower vibration level.

The unit running for 72 hours on max vibration would essentially give you the most 'bang for your buck'. Running the unit at lower vibration levels is said to produce more of a 'sweetness'.

Hope that helps clarify things..
 
 ~ Ray ~
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2010, 06:34:54 PM »

.......I'm guessing that adjusting the vibration frequency lets you "ballpark" a certain note? My guitar (and I'm guessing many accoustics) resonates strongly at "A" so it seems that frequency would loosen up them stiff fibers the most efficiently.......John

From my study of the Tonerite site, the UMGF forum, the AGF, and the Collings forum.....
I dont think that the frequency is adjustable.  Only the intesity of the 'action'.

Some posters have used tuners to guage the frequency that this device puts out, and it is a physically vibrating tone
that reads just about perfectly centered between B and B flat on a chromatic tuner.
When I try that same test on my aquraium air pumps, I get the same reading.   (60 hz ?)

The threads on those other forums are very informative on the facts and opinions of the Tonerite.  The Collings one
has lots of collected data and charts as well.  You dont need to be a registered member of the UMGF to use thier search function.



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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 11:20:15 PM »

From my study of the Tonerite site, the UMGF forum, the AGF, and the Collings forum.....
I dont think that the frequency is adjustable.  Only the intesity of the 'action'.
The threads on those other forums are very informative on the facts and opinions of the Tonerite.  The Collings one
has lots of collected data and charts as well.  You dont need to be a registered member of the UMGF to use thier search function.

You are correct DS, the adjustment can be make to the intensity of the 'action' or 'vibration' not the frequency. Max frequency (vibration) is initially suggested to expedite the top opening up, while running the unit at a lower intensity is said to enhance the 'sweetness' of the guitar.

 ~ Ray ~
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2010, 05:04:23 AM »

Hmmm, interesting. I once spent about a half hour going thru the Collins site on it and other links and I'm sold on the concep. But not being able to tune the frequency to the resonant tone of the guitar seems like an odd design omission. But then they're selling the unit for use on other stringed instruments; violins and such.

The resonant frequency was something I had never explored until a few months ago. I'm sure I'm the last person to figure this out, but I did some fairly loud humming into the soundhole at about the same frequency as the low A string and damn if that whole guitar didn't start vibrating. Was really surprising.

I'm tempted to wire up the biggest speaker I can fit into the guitar. Set up a mp3 of the A or whatever frequency that resonates my guitar. Flip the guitar on it's bridge and place the speaker on the bridge plate atop some foam so it won't scratch and then just play that tone for a day or so loud enough to get the body singing. What little I know about anything leads me to think that using the resonant frequency would be the most effective in loosening up the wood fibers, thus opening up the volume and tone of the guitar. Worst case scenerio is you shake all the glue joints apart.  ohmy Hmmm.

From my study of the Tonerite site, the UMGF forum, the AGF, and the Collings forum.....
I dont think that the frequency is adjustable.  Only the intesity of the 'action'.

Some posters have used tuners to guage the frequency that this device puts out, and it is a physically vibrating tone
that reads just about perfectly centered between B and B flat on a chromatic tuner.
When I try that same test on my aquraium air pumps, I get the same reading.   (60 hz ?)

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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2010, 10:24:05 PM »

The OP summed up what I think is the validity of the Tonerite concept.  I plan to have one ready for F-IV when it arrives (June?  July?  ).  It's first job will be to "play-in" my D-18GE.  I think I've done that already with the F-III LS-03R since it is an entirely different animal than when I got it.  I doubt I will need it on the 1974 LoPrinzi and definitely won't use it on the 1940 Cowboy Loye parlor.  That old sucker has been through a few wars.

So, yeah, the Tonerite seems to do what the makers say it does.
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2010, 02:06:50 AM »

............Worst case scenerio is you shake all the glue joints apart.  ohmy Hmmm.

           I talked to JCL on a visit to the Oxnard facility about the opening up of my LSV-11 and he told me about bygone days in Canada in a huge warehouse where he would leave big speakers in front of a guitar and blast it very loud all night long with rock music to open them up. Then I talked to Matthew and he said they filled them with rice also. Something like that.     
         But then one of them also said that sometimes you did have to re-glue the braces.
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