What is this saddle?

[frankhond]

Hey guys, maybe you can help me out here - one of my Larrivees (LV-09SBT) came with this strange saddle that's compensated on b-string as well as the lower strings. What is this?

I haven't seen this kind of saddle on the Larris in the shops (although I haven't looked that hard) and the bone & Tusq replacements you see on Larrivees site are all with b-compensation only as far as I can tell. My other Larri has the standard Tusq sadle with b-compensation only. Can anyone see from the photos if this is tusq, bone, something else?

[flatlander]

Did you buy that new? My GUESS is that it's bone because of the smoothness of curves where the compensation was place. Plastics are usually molded and have definitive, sharp marks where compensation is. As far as the compensation it'sself, it's in line with what a luthier or tech taking his time would do. Going beyond the basic B string cut. So looks like done by hand. Probably aftermarket.

[jeremy3220]

Looks like the infamous 'triple compensated' Tusq saddle. The notches under the strings are really what makes me think it is tusq.

[Daysailer]

I agree, Triple compensated,  treble e and b are set back from the leading edge, as well as the bass E

Does your guitar intonate properly?

My F-III came with a bone saddle compensated that way.
My Seagul too.

Original Seagull Tusq and homemade bone saddle in my Seagull:


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[ncognito]

Daysailor--

The bone saddle you show for the Seagull is not the white of generic bone.  Is it dyed, or maybe buffalo horn, triceritops, wild boar, abducted alien cerebral appendage?  I want to be ready in case this comes up on Jeopardy. 

What is buffalo horn, Alex? 

         DAVE (Sorry, I have entirely too much time on my hands.) 

[Daysailer]

Daysailor-- The bone saddle you show for the Seagull is not the white of generic bone.  Is it dyed, or maybe buffalo horn, triceritops, wild boar, abducted alien cerebral appendage?  I want to be ready in case this comes up on Jeopardy.  
What is buffalo horn, Alex?  
        DAVE (Sorry, I have entirely too much time on my hands.)  

I have too much time right now too.  Recovering from a hernia repair.

Thanks for the comments.  I like how they (saddle and nut) are a closer match to the ivory colored body and headstock binding on my Seagull.

The bone saddle and pins are just plain bone.  I once read that they could be dyed in tea.
So I experimented a bit and then  'Tea dyed' them:
Put teabag and saddle/pins in a cup about half full (enough to cover the saddle) of hot tap water.
Carefully cooked the tea in the microwave for less than 45 seconds.  If you see boiling STOP.
Added soak  time will darken the effect.  Highly polished areas will take on less "Vintage"
If you get darker than you want,  Rubbing with a very fine polish or glazing compound will remove a bit of the color.

Last week I made a new bone nut for my L-03BW, and 'vintaged' the bone saddle and nut for that guitar.
They now are a close match in color to the ivoriod neck binding.  The bridge pins on my L are black Buffalo Horn.
didnt dye them  
ds

[flatlander]

"Can anyone see from the photos if this is tusq, bone, something else? "

I think that was the main question. No doubt it's triple compensated. It looks shaped by hand. Do people do that with plastic? I guess you could but I've always seen plastic done like Day Sailor posted, with the sharp lines.
I didn't notice the notches at first but bone does that to, just takes longer. That's usually when I have to get another saddle, When B string gets notch and gets too low.

[ncognito]

ds--

Thanks for the education, and tea recipe.  I like how you dyed everything to become color co-ordinated.  What about the buffalo horn pins?  Are they just for aesthetics, or do you detect a difference in tone, and if so how do they alter the tone?

I wish you a fast and complete recovery.  Hang in there (pun intended).    

        DAVE

[jeremy3220]

I think that was the main question. No doubt it's triple compensated. It looks shaped by hand. Do people do that with plastic? I guess you could but I've always seen plastic done like Day Sailor posted, with the sharp lines.
I didn't notice the notches at first but bone does that to, just takes longer. That's usually when I have to get another saddle, When B string gets notch and gets too low.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Graph-Tech-TUSQ-Acoustic-Saddle-Compensated-Martin-332?sku=360608


I didn't say that because it has notches but because how the notches look.

[BenF]

My D-09 came with one of them, tusq tripple fancy pants compensated number. It was a 2008 model.

The shop I got it from boasted a 'pro setup' and it was before I really understood how guitars worked, so it may have been added by them, or may have been STD factory issue.

[flatlander]

I didn't say that because it has notches but because how the notches look.

ok, yea that changes my guess to Tusq. In my small and non tusq world I didn't know they made them with smooth curves like that.

[frankhond]

Thanks all for a lot of interesting info!   

I didn't know they made tusq saddles like this, but now it makes sense. It does look like tusq (although it is slightly more gray colored than the tusq saddle in my other Larri), but I never seen this kind of shape in tusq before.

Guitar intonates fine, and I'm very happy with how it sounds, very different from my LV-03RE. I was wondering if the saddle had anything to do with it, but since it's the same material, guess not.



Mateusz

[ducktrapper]

Take a red hot needle to it. When you smell it, you'll know if it's plastic or bone.

[frankhond]

Ouuch! Or my finger ...   

[ducktrapper]

Ouuch! Or my finger ...   

Okay, you might want to grip the red hot needle with pliers or a vice grip while you heat it with a lighter and perform your experiment. 

[Zohn]

The A and D strings are in fact compensated on that saddle as well. The 'conventional' saddle has the edge from the back of the saddle from the lower E (bass string) gradually towards the front of the saddle at the G string position. Then to the back again for the B.
The two shots show a different look of shaping, but the same compensation result.
Takamine uses the split-saddle system which has the same effect.
Source: http://www.lutherie.net/saddle_angle.html


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[frankhond]

Okay, you might want to grip the red hot needle with pliers or a vice grip while you heat it with a lighter and perform your experiment. 

Will check this next time I change strings.