Political Trolling in the Forums -

[tadol]

I've read the rules more than a few times, and it seems there are a few posters who feel that if they can spin a simple topic into a political or religious position, and take cheap shots at others, and that it is OK -

Now I am one of the biggest believers in freedom of speech, as well as in the concept that one must always question authority - but I also believe that if you cannot check your politics and ideology at this door, then you need to find a different place to hang out. From what I've read in the Rules, this is a place to discuss guitars - Larrivee guitars primarily - and hopefully those areas that are directly related to them, such as music and artists and materials and construction techniques and playing techniques and accessory items and lessons and, well - there is a long list of the things that can be considered related.

But too frequently for my taste, some seemingly innocuous topics get rapidly spun into arguments in support of sometimes rather offensive positions either politically or religiously. Maybe my being raised in Berkeley has alot to do with my attitude, but even if everyone in the room agrees with you, you should not promote positions that are clearly offensive, hurtful, or derogatory. But my attitude towards this seems to be in a minority a little too often on this board.

I am hoping that a number of you will respond to this, and let the MODS know quickly when topics start to go into "dangerous" territory, and to let the people who seem to enjoy promoting these positions know that their posts are unwelcome. I hope the MODS will take a little stronger position on some of these threads as well, and let people know when they are breaking rules.

In the meantime - I continue to feel I need to speak out against some of the offensiveness that gets posted, and will not be intimidated by some of the "fringe" that unfortunately seem to have only this Forum to spout their ideology. Maybe they've learned no one else will listen to them - and maybe we need to do the same. But if you post something that is clearly defamatory, untruthful, or offensive, I won't ignore it, I will stand up let it not go unchallenged.

Of course, the possibility exists that the MODS feel differently than I. If so, they are certainly empowered to remove my account. But I hope that others feel as strongly as I that I love this place for its discussion of Larrivees, and of guitars, and of all the details that surround them - and that none of us who come here want to feel like we need to defend ourselves, or our political or religious beliefs, or to try to defend well documented and proven truths. There is more than enough room on the internet for those arguments - we don't need or want them here.

Thanks -    Tad

[obe-wan]

Cheers, Scott.

[ST]

This seems pretty clear to me.

Originally posted in The Rules :
6.  Political and Religious Discussion - This is a guitar forum and although we have a Non-Guitar discussion area, Political and Religious discussion is not welcome here.  These topics seem to always lead to problems that this forum does not need or want.  There are many places on the Internet where these topics are welcome.  The Larrivée Forum is not the place for these subjects.  Posts containing Political or Religious topics or references will be deleted without notification.

I go to various places on the web - some because of what they offer, and some because of what they don't.

For me, this site is a place to share some discussion about common interests and be relatively free of divisive ones, so in this case, it is a combination of both. I am here for what is offered and refuge from that which is prohibited.

I am a moderator in several comunities where we have rules similar to the one quoted above. The rules about what is not permitted are  enforced exactly as written. But for the most part people respect the rule so the moderators don't have to get involved.  In those communities if someone strays over the line, the community members tend to voice their objections with overwhelming silence and post a private message to the moderators. No extra noise, no escalation, and the moderators' decisions are final.

Originally posted by  The Rules :
1.  Be Friendly - Everyone is here for the same reason - to discuss guitars!  There is no need to argue just for the sake of arguing, or to put down other peoples tastes in music/guitars/donuts, etc.  Please keep your posts clean from obscenities, inappropriate pictures, sexual innuendos, etc.  NO negative comments towards Members or Dealers (i.e. NO Bashing).  The administration can delete posts at their will.  Think a little before posting.

I am glad that this is the first rule here. It is one of the reasons that I come here. I am always disappointed when discussions stray from this fundamental directive.


Ultimately we all get to vote with our feet, or in this case, our keyboards.

Most days I am glad to come here, and some days it just feels like the place is fraught with peril.

[ducktrapper]

Political Trolling in the Forums - which you are in the act of doing. Again we see that today's Left, using political correctness and this sort of directive, seeks to end all debate of "the narrative" they support. Mostly successfully.  

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

I've read the rules more than a few times, and it seems there are a few posters who feel that if they can spin a simple topic into a political or religious position, and take cheap shots at others, and that it is OK -

Now I am one of the biggest believers in freedom of speech, as well as in the concept that one must always question authority - but I also believe that if you cannot check your politics and ideology at this door, then you need to find a different place to hang out. From what I've read in the Rules, this is a place to discuss guitars - Larrivee guitars primarily - and hopefully those areas that are directly related to them, such as music and artists and materials and construction techniques and playing techniques and accessory items and lessons and, well - there is a long list of the things that can be considered related.

But too frequently for my taste, some seemingly innocuous topics get rapidly spun into arguments in support of sometimes rather offensive positions either politically or religiously. Maybe my being raised in Berkeley has alot to do with my attitude, but even if everyone in the room agrees with you, you should not promote positions that are clearly offensive, hurtful, or derogatory. But my attitude towards this seems to be in a minority a little too often on this board.

I am hoping that a number of you will respond to this, and let the MODS know quickly when topics start to go into "dangerous" territory, and to let the people who seem to enjoy promoting these positions know that their posts are unwelcome. I hope the MODS will take a little stronger position on some of these threads as well, and let people know when they are breaking rules.

In the meantime - I continue to feel I need to speak out against some of the offensiveness that gets posted, and will not be intimidated by some of the "fringe" that unfortunately seem to have only this Forum to spout their ideology. Maybe they've learned no one else will listen to them - and maybe we need to do the same. But if you post something that is clearly defamatory, untruthful, or offensive, I won't ignore it, I will stand up let it not go unchallenged.

Of course, the possibility exists that the MODS feel differently than I. If so, they are certainly empowered to remove my account. But I hope that others feel as strongly as I that I love this place for its discussion of Larrivees, and of guitars, and of all the details that surround them - and that none of us who come here want to feel like we need to defend ourselves, or our political or religious beliefs, or to try to defend well documented and proven truths. There is more than enough room on the internet for those arguments - we don't need or want them here.

Thanks -    Tad

This also isn't the AGF, where every word is scrutinized.  The moderators here understand that we humans have dimensions to our lives, so occasional political/religious comment is not the end of the world - hijacking is a violation.

I submit to you that we not go down the road of hard censorship.  Let the LGF act as it always has.  I understand you need to vent, but but at the end of the day, no harm was done.  Censorship does much more harm to humanity.

[norton]

There was a time when I could enjoy a good heated political discussion.  You could argue with respect for the other person's opinion and with any luck have a chance to get your point across.  Doesn't seem to be the case anymore.  Civility seems to a lost art.

tadol, I agreed almost completely with your points in the other thread, but your call for keeping politics out of the forum (Amen!) was only after you'd made your point.  I might even say it was in a way sure to irritate some folks.

In the meantime - I continue to feel I need to speak out against some of the offensiveness that gets posted, and will not be intimidated by some of the "fringe" that unfortunately seem to have only this Forum to spout their ideology. Maybe they've learned no one else will listen to them - and maybe we need to do the same. But if you post something that is clearly defamatory, untruthful, or offensive, I won't ignore it, I will stand up let it not go unchallenged.

Ducktrapper, 

Political Trolling in the Forums - which you are in the act of doing. Again we see that today's Left, using political correctness and this sort of directive, seeks to end all debate of "the narrative" they support. Mostly successfully. 

What does left or right have to do with this?  I recently returned to the forum after being away for several years.  When I first joined my initial posts had some "unintended" Taylor bashing.  I was surprised at all the furor I caused, but now that I look back the result of my jabs was predictable and all I did was cause problems and make the forum a much less pleasant place to be.  Fact is, no matter what you say about anything - including guitars - is bound to please some and enrage others.  Enough problems without opening things to predictably hot topics having nothing to do with Larrivee guitars.  Seems like it would be best if we all agreed to come here to discuss guitars, and go elsewhere (no lack of options) if we feel like preaching. 

[JOYCEfromNS]

Interesting read from Top to Bottom. Though I have little to add as most has been said. Feel if an opinion or position is not agreeable to you then respond in a civil nature with good intentions without personal attacks. If you don't feel like responding move on to another topic or GO PLAY your RS4!!!

What YOU don't YET have an RS4?? Now that is OFFENSIVE!!!!     

We all are a little different with sometimes opposite views of the world. One thing for sure is we ALL luv the Larrivee Guitar and for the most part believe it's one of the best kept secrets in the world which is why we luv to talk about them. 

[Johnny M]

I usually stay away from these kind of topics because I believe in playing fair and "being nice" ~ as per the rules of the forum.  From my experience, a lot of people get hurt feelings from not being open minded and knee jerk reactions.  My point of view isn't any more valid than yours, and I don't want someone telling me that my point of view is wrong.  Live and let live, be nice, and this world would be a better place rather than creating divisions.  The internet makes it easy for people to act in ways that they wouldn't normally act if they were talking face to face.  Let's all take a breather and go play our guitars.

Getting off the soapbox now ...

John

[Danny]

   Sometimes it seems to me that politics is just a vehicle to exert a strong opinion and ''stir the pot''.
        I appreciate the MODS way of letting the members balance one another out. This is a small forum though and at times it's easy to get rubbed the wrong way by the same person(s).

                 I hope Tadol doesn't leave this forum. It would be a loss to us all.

[norton]

                 I hope Tadol doesn't leave this forum. It would be a loss to us all.

[Randy_R]

I have deleted all the posts in the thread about Larrivee leaving Oxnard that  the source of debate. I don't like to have to do that.

[flathead]

Let me start by saying   to the  Johnny M post. And it seems the older I get the more I seem to find myself in the middle ground of things. But Tad, you can't have your cake and eat it to. Your pouring gas on the fire only feeds the fire. Your chances of changing someones opinion on this forum are "next to nothing" ( A Texas term ). An believing you are 100% right and others of a different belief or insight  are 100% wrong, is 100% wrong. The only way to make a difference is to state you opinions in a positive manner. As soon as you take the negative road, your opinions, at least to me tend to lose there validity. In your last few posts you don't seem to be looking for the middle or commen ground.

You speak of free speech, but it seems only if it is none offensive to you. And if it is offensive to you it should be censored. But any reply you make in defense of what you believe is right is beyond censorship. And that there is no way any one could ever find what you say offensive. Even when you say that they have a small mind when they say it.

People should not be allowed to post an opinion different than mine( because that is offensive ) is what it seems your saying, and that my friend is just wrong!!!!  Flathead. ( not Small head )

[GA-ME]

Well, apparently the mods hold Tad's beliefs as they deleted the "offensive" posts in the other thread, but see fit to allow this diatribe to remain intact. By the way, there was nothing, as Tad posts "clearly defamatory, untruthful, or offensive......." in the other thread. Dissenting opinion expressed in an adult manner, yes. Apparently, the I'll take my toys and go home because you don't play the way I like it rule is invoked once again. Hey Duck, the thread eating gremlin struck again. Perhaps you should take up thread gremlin trapping..............................

[JOYCEfromNS]

The nice thing about the Larrivee Forum is there exists an intellectual level that sometimes creates  dissenting opinion expressed in an adult manner.

Which is all good and interesting isn't it     

[Danny]

    Not all the time. It has led to members deleting their accounts or they just stop participating.
So we all lose out on that members input about many different things.

[Randy_R]

I'm locking this thread rather than deleting it. It serves as a good example of why we have the rules we have.

yes, maybe this thread should have been deleted, but I refuse to sit here 24 hours a day pondering  everyone's every word. grow up.

by the way, the mods as it were may all have differing opinions on some subjects, but we have agreed to enforce the rules.