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Author Topic: New buttons for ping tuners  (Read 17514 times)
Danny
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« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2010, 01:58:17 AM »

  I think this is the radius and the flat.
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« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2010, 02:03:59 AM »

Sorry danny, I've never had a problem with any of my tuners so I have never removed a knob. Does the shaft for the knob have a flat side on it? Like a knob that goes on a stove?
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« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2010, 02:22:08 AM »

By shaft, do you mean the part that the knob goes on?  Is it two different diameters?

Edited for clarity. yes, button shaft, this is a thread about replacement buttons.  The shaft that tuner buttons go on is not round (or the buttons would spin loose) it is round with 2 flattened sides.  Dimensions are long and short axis. (Technically first is the diameter and 2nd is distance between the flats)

Easier to see on the bottom of the button than on the tuner itself:



This one is .154" x .104".  No idea what it actually fits. 
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« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2010, 05:21:14 AM »

.....Gotoh Mini 510 Tuners.  Button Shaft = .160" x .125"

Your measurements from a previous post  "The shafts on my 1998 OM-03R measure .161 x .127. "

Measurments FRom 'dependan', "I just measured the standard Larrivee Ping shaft size and got .154 X .136"
And "the mini Pings are the same as far as the shaft radius and flat .154 X .136 aprox"

My eyeball Measurement of Piing shafts,  ".156 X.125"

Looks like we are zeroing in on a standard shaft size.
When my Grover (large and Mini) buttons and the buttons I ordered from Taiwan arrive, we will have some definate possibilities.  
ds
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« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2010, 06:59:24 AM »

Your measurements from a previous post  "The shafts on my 1998 OM-03R measure .161 x .127. "

Measurments FRom 'dependan', "I just measured the standard Larrivee Ping shaft size and got .154 X .136"
And "the mini Pings are the same as far as the shaft radius and flat .154 X .136 aprox"

My eyeball Measurement of Piing shafts,  ".156 X.125"

Looks like we are zeroing in on a standard shaft size.
When my Grover (large and Mini) buttons and the buttons I ordered from Taiwan arrive, we will have some definate possibilities.  
ds
You jut reminded me, I have Grover Minis on my Guild 12-string.  They measure .155 x .138 (shaft)  Button hole is .158 x .140.
(The Mino Rotomatics on the Guild are much better (firmer more precise) than the Pings on my Larrivee 12 or Parlor.
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« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2010, 03:57:57 PM »

Edited for clarity. yes, button shaft, this is a thread about replacement buttons.  The shaft that tuner buttons go on is not round (or the buttons would spin loose) it is round with 2 flattened sides.  Dimensions are long and short axis. (Technically first is the diameter and 2nd is distance between the flats)

Easier to see on the bottom of the button than on the tuner itself:



This one is .154" x .104".  No idea what it actually fits. 

Thanks for the visual, I thought they might have only one flat side.  Now if I ever take mine apart I will know what to measure.     
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« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2010, 02:03:57 AM »

I don't have measurements, but I did an experiment.

When I got my L-09 I quickly ordered some Gotoh 510 deltas which are superb. I put the Larrivee branded Ping chrome with ebony in the box and in the drawer.
The I bought the Seagull with what I think are Ping Mini's branded Seagull.  I wanted to change the chrome buttons...

Sooo...
 I swapped the buttons and screws, left all the washers in place ...

AND THEY ARE EXACT FIT!!

I had understood that they were different.  I don't know  if you can get many aftermarket buttons sized for Pings, but if so...

Or they are copies of someone else's. Grover?

I don't know if this helps anybody else, but no one seemed to know about the Seagull Pings on either this or the Seagull Forums.
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Chris
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Eastman '07 AC 650-12 Jumbo (NAMM)
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« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2010, 05:32:23 AM »

...
Metal buttons from L03 2004 Pings, fit all my guitars properly.
LS  F-III mini buttons fit on all my guitars properly.
Seagull mini buttons, (pings without index screw),  fit all my guitars properly.
Larrivee Ebony after market buttons from Larrivee store, fit all my guitars properly.
Ivoriod Grover rotomatic buttons from CrazyParts, fit all my guitar properly.
.....Hope this helps.  

Old news from previous post on this very thread..
I too was suprised that the Seagull mini tuner shafts were a perfect fit for the Larrivee buttons, regular and mini.
Nice to know that the Gotoh tuners and Pings and Seagull ??? all use the same size of tuner shaft, and the buttons are interchangeable.

Still waiting for my Grover ebonys from FQMS and the Ivoriod buttons from the eastern source.

ds 
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« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2010, 05:56:50 AM »

Old news from previous post on this very thread..
I too was suprised that the Seagull mini tuner shafts were a perfect fit for the Larrivee buttons, regular and mini.
Nice to know that the Gotoh tuners and Pings and Seagull ??? all use the same size of tuner shaft, and the buttons are interchangeable.

Still waiting for my Grover ebonys from FQMS and the Ivoriod buttons from the eastern source.

ds 
I find all this info confusing I must be missing something. Are the Seagull pings actually full size? Others are emphatic that buttons that fit Schaller/Gotoh/Full sized Pings won't fit Mini Pings. Anyway, does that mean I can use any button made for Schaller/Gotoh on these Larrivee/Seagull Pings? so many say they don't fit.
 
Of course I also read on the Forum an emphatic statement that Gotoh 510 Delta's do not drop into a Larri when that's exactly what I did and it was perfect.`

Sure want to hear your experience with those new buttons!    right back attcha!
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Chris
Larrivee's '07  L-09 (40th Commemorative); '09 00-03 S.E; '08 P-09
Eastman '07 AC 650-12 Jumbo (NAMM)
Martin   '11 D Mahogany (FSC Golden Era type)
Voyage-Air '10 VAOM-06
-the nylon string-
Goya (Levin) '58 G-30
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'11 McSpadden
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« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2010, 06:41:24 AM »

Others are emphatic that buttons that fit Schaller/Gotoh/Full sized Pings won't fit Mini Pings.
Anyway, does that mean I can use any button made for Schaller/Gotoh on these Larrivee/Seagull Pings?

As I measure the shaft size (dial caliper, a mic would be more accurate) the mini-ping shaft is a good 10 thousandths of an inch bigger across the flats than the Gotoh or full size Ping buttons.  Mini-Grovers ought to fit though might be just a little sloppy.

Could the Seagull S-6 use full size pings?  It's a fairly big guitar for minis.
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« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2010, 07:01:38 AM »

I find all this info confusing I must be missing something. Are the Seagull pings actually full size? Others are emphatic that buttons that fit Schaller/Gotoh/Full sized Pings won't fit Mini Pings. Anyway, does that mean I can use any button made for Schaller/Gotoh on these Larrivee/Seagull Pings? so many say they don't fit.
 
Of course I also read on the Forum an emphatic statement that Gotoh 510 Delta's do not drop into a Larri when that's exactly what I did and it was perfect.`

Sure want to hear your experience with those new buttons!    right back attcha!

I am really glad your Gotoh 510's are perfect drop in fit on your Larrivee.   

It looks like you may be confusing direct drop in replacement of complete tuning machines and
just replacing the buttons on the end of the turner shaft.

I can find no one with first hand knowledge that says the Schaller buttons will fit Larrivee Pings or Seagull tuner shafts.
In fact, I believe that the bad fitting buttons on my OM are Schaller buttons, and would not recommend them.
In 4 years of causually researching this, I am pretty sure that the Grover and Schaller buttons are not interchangable.
Since the Grover mini buttons from my Ukulele fit all my Larrivees and my Seagull,  I would avoid Schaller buttons for my guitars.

The rest of what I know 'for sure' is in my previous post on this thead from Jan 20th.
When I get the other buttons, I will start a new post with my findings.  And hope others who have actually found good fitting buttons that fit the Pings to also post thier experiences, so we will have a definative reference for all. 
ds

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« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2010, 07:44:50 AM »

I am really glad your Gotoh 510's are perfect drop in fit on your Larrivee.   

It looks like you may be confusing direct drop in replacement of complete tuning machines and
just replacing the buttons on the end of the turner shaft.

I can find no one with first hand knowledge that says the Schaller buttons will fit Larrivee Pings or Seagull tuner shafts.
In fact, I believe that the bad fitting buttons on my OM are Schaller buttons, and would not recommend them.
In 4 years of causually researching this, I am pretty sure that the Grover and Schaller buttons are not interchangable.
Since the Grover mini buttons from my Ukulele fit all my Larrivees and my Seagull,  I would avoid Schaller buttons for my guitars.

The rest of what I know 'for sure' is in my previous post on this thead from Jan 20th.
When I get the other buttons, I will start a new post with my findings.  And hope others who have actually found good fitting buttons that fit the Pings to also post thier experiences, so we will have a definative reference for all. 
ds


Thanks, DS I just finished reading the entire thread. I think I get it better now.

I look forward to the new thread..

BTW  my reference to my Gotoh's was a poorly worded comment on that internet - and Forum - problem."I read it on the internet so it's true!"
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Chris
Larrivee's '07  L-09 (40th Commemorative); '09 00-03 S.E; '08 P-09
Eastman '07 AC 650-12 Jumbo (NAMM)
Martin   '11 D Mahogany (FSC Golden Era type)
Voyage-Air '10 VAOM-06
-the nylon string-
Goya (Levin) '58 G-30
-dulcimer-
'11 McSpadden
Danny
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« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2010, 02:16:28 PM »

   When this is all "cleared up". It would be nice to have a small cross reference to refer others to for the future. Wading through these threads just confuses me more sometimes.
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« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2010, 09:04:49 AM »

Sorry guys,
I reads all the thread and now I'm really confused.   
I like some of those buttons in the taisamlu ebay shop (and they are really cheap).
My OM-2 was built on 09/06/2006 and her buttons are marked Larrivee, so thay should be Pings.
Which buttons should I buy from taisamlu to have the better chances they fit ?

I found these different types:   
    Hole:4.0mm(0.15") and 2.8mm(0.11")
    Hole:3.9mm(0.15") and 2.8mm(0.11")
    Hole:4.1mm(0.16") and 3.1mm(0.12")
    Hole:3.8mm(0.15") and 2.7mm(0.11")

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Sandro

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« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2010, 10:12:57 AM »

Sorry guys,
I reads all the thread and now I'm really confused.   
I like some of those buttons in the taisamlu ebay shop (and they are really cheap).
My OM-2 was built on 09/06/2006 and her buttons are marked Larrivee, so thay should be Pings.
Which buttons should I buy from taisamlu to have the better chances they fit ?

I found these different types:   
    Hole:4.0mm(0.15") and 2.8mm(0.11")
    Hole:3.9mm(0.15") and 2.8mm(0.11")
    Hole:4.1mm(0.16") and 3.1mm(0.12")
    Hole:3.8mm(0.15") and 2.7mm(0.11")


 
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« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2010, 10:47:53 AM »

Thanks a lot AZL,
with those prices I can buy 2-3 sets and change them at will   
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Sandro

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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2010, 02:18:28 PM »

Sorry guys,
I reads all the thread and now I'm really confused.    
I like some of those buttons in the taisamlu ebay shop (and they are really cheap).
My OM-2 was built on 09/06/2006 and her buttons are marked Larrivee, so thay should be Pings.
Which buttons should I buy from taisamlu to have the better chances they fit ?

     Hi, I originally posted this particular thread b/c I found this ebay store and bought some Hinoki Wood buttons for my D-03. The buttons I received were amazing craftsmanship, but were a bit snug on the flats. The hole size I had were 4.2mm X 3.5mm. I just simply did some VERY light sanding and tapped VERY lightly with a rubber mallet to fit my new buttons on my full size pings. I also noticed that not every button hole was an exact match to the next. Some where an exact fit (no tapping/sanding needed had has a very firm fit) and some, like previously stated, needed "assistance".

      This is the reason (IMHO) why there are so many differing opinions about who makes an "exact" size for size replacement for the ping full/mini tuners:
Not all of these buttons are true to the measurements that they are being advertised for. Take my case for example, some where exact fits and some where in need of assistance to fit. I don't think you will find "Hand-Made" buttons (like my Hinoki buttons) that are "EXACT DROP IN" button, unless you're buying buttons from someone who is using the proper tools, their production process has been streamlined and is consistent.

     Personally, I prefer the "raw" element. what I mean is "cookie cutter cut-out", "plastic wrapped", and so perfect that all originality and "uniqueness" has been stripped from any particular thing....just doesn't appeal to me. For example, my D-03 is a "Craigslist-Special" and has A LOT of imperfections, and will never be the guitar of the month, BUT.... it's unique and has character. I love the fact that I have dings and scratches, and a guitar that looks like it has been played! At the risk of sounding cheesy; It has it's own story. A life-line that can been seen. No one else is going to EVER own a D-03 JUST like mine! It's not just a sheep in the flock. Haha I love that! Don't get me wrong, I definitely covet the McPherson git that will never see the light of day or be touched by anyone else but me, and that looks and sounds....PERFECT (IMO). I, am simply giving my opinion as a player, not just a hobbyist. Well, I'll get off my soap-box now.  bigrin
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« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2010, 03:59:22 PM »

I ordered 2 sets of the ivoriod Taisamlu buttons, and they arrived yesterday.  

They were listed as the largest hole size that they sell  4.2 X 3.2 mm
http://cgi.ebay.com/Guitar-Tuner-Ivory-Plastic-Buttons-6pc-P8I_W0QQitemZ360232189998QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item53df83002e

They DO NOT fit on the Larrivee Pings, Mini Pings nor the Seagull Pings

Tried to tap one on.......I cracked.

Tried a needle file....ruined another.

Finally with more careful work, and lots and lots of patience, i got one to fit and work properly.

With 2 sets I will probably get one set of working buttons for my F-III LS.

I agree they are cheap enoungh not feel as much loss, but paying for 2 sets to get one, that
brings the cost in line with the Grover buttons sold by FQMS.  (link to them is posted earlier in this thread)
And the somewhat higher cost of the Grover buttons from CrazyParts, that I know fit  Pings correctly from past experience, are still affordable, and they have a large number of different materials.

I am still waiting for my order of a standard and mini sized sets of Grovers from FQMS.  
The delay is my fault, I told them to wait for a backordered item before shipping my entire order.



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« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2010, 07:30:06 PM »

I agree they are cheap enoungh not feel as much loss, but paying for 2 sets to get one, that
brings the cost in line with the Grover buttons sold by FQMS.  (link to them is posted earlier in this thread)
And the somewhat higher cost of the Grover buttons from CrazyParts, that I know fit  Pings correctly from past experience, are still affordable, and they have a large number of different materials.

That's a good advice Daysailer as I really suck at bricolage. I think I'll go for these then, taking advantage of the nice discount 

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Sandro

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« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2010, 02:58:59 AM »

Daysailer - I am anxious to find out if you get some good buttons to fit the minis - I'd love to lose the metal buttons on my 12 string just to save a pound or so from the headstock. Tad
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