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Author Topic: How to cover hole after removed preamp  (Read 8560 times)
Danny
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2009, 09:54:02 PM »

I actually looked at the saddle today and, well, it's hard to say anything intelligent since I don't know how it's supposed to look. I might bring it to a good luthier after the holidays to check out other options. Are you saying a bone saddle gives it more treble? I thought it would mellow the sound instead.

 
Bone does not "mellow" the sound if you mean it in a way like "stifle".
  Or reduce the tone. Bone makes the tone a bit more distinct and some may say "harsh".      I prefer it myself.   I just made and installed a bone saddle on my OM-21 that has a LR Baggs in it. I like the sound. A little more "in your face".
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2009, 10:22:00 PM »


If the highs are missing in action I would definitely check to make certain that the saddle is completely flat on the bottom and properly seated against the transducer, and you can also try a bone saddle to bring out the trebles some.  I'd do that before I cut any wires.  

If it really bothers you and you know you will never use the electronics, sell it and replace it with a nice used LV-09.

If there is a projection deficiency I'd definitely take it to a good tech and have him look at the interface between the bridge and the saddle. Bone will give a little more sparkle (or so I'm told; I still have the original tusq in my L-03). If the saddle is not in perfect contact with the bottom of the bridge slot the energy transfer will suffer. That might be another reason to NOT remove the transducer (or whatever that thing is called).

f
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2009, 03:56:34 AM »

Turning a preamp hole into a sound port will save guitar looks, however beware of this sound port being too large. In general every inch you cut off your guitar effect the bass. This is oversimplified statement, but it works for this case. If this sound port is large enough you may hear a difference in bass presents.
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2009, 01:11:13 PM »

Frankhond, are you serious - and if you are, why did you buy that guitar with the electronics to start with? 
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2009, 02:52:03 PM »

Frankhond, are you serious - and if you are, why did you buy that guitar with the electronics to start with? 

Well, I got a good price and they didn't have one without. And I was told that the electronics don't affect acoustic sound. But after having it home for a while I have a feeling that the guitar (compared to other rosewood Larrivees I have tried) has a slightly dull sound, it feels that some of the sparkle that should be there is not coming out. Of course this culd be a "clunker" but I saw some other posts on this forum that tone improved after removing electronics, so....

The sound port thing is "extra", I was originally looking for some simple product/solution to cover the preamp hole. But after seeing this thread develop, I realize the idea of removing electronics is more unorthodox that I thought.
   
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ST
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 02:57:00 PM »

Hi Frankhond,

Have you put new strings on it since you got it?

Have you tried different kinds of strings?

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Danny
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2009, 04:56:01 PM »

  I owned a D-09e and the first thing I did was remove the transducer ribbon. I even cut out the wires and the Fishman preamp, but left the end pin. This was not a Barn door though. Then I made a bone saddle and replaced the nut also. I thought it was a big improvement. ( I happen to have that guitar back home with me for  a few months, so I played it last week, don't care for the small 1 11/16'' neck but I was enjoying the sound.)
   I am going to be examining a barn door Larrivee in about an hour that has some cracks around the pre-amp hole. I'll follow your thread to see what you do and maybe I'll have a little more to say later on. I usually do of course. blush
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« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2009, 06:19:35 PM »

Your posts says purchased "recently", it can take some playing time for the guitar to open up, as well as you get used to playing it.
If you have not changed strings and done a setup, I would strongly urge you to do so before removing the electrics.

Good Luck..
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« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2009, 08:44:54 PM »

Guys, I really appreciate the amount of involvement from you all.

New strings - check. Martin PB SP and DAddario PB.

I agree about having the guitar longer might help. I think an action plan is to take it to a luthier after all those holidays and see if it's ok in terms of saddle etc. A setup might help but frankly the action and playability is excellent as it is now. I might try to put in a bone saddle.

Plan B is to try and remove the electronics. I have a contact who can laser-cut model airplane plywood to specs - I'll CAD up a simple cover that fits exactly over the hole.

Dependan, possibly it's your thread I was inspired by? Did you compare the sound before you switched saddle to bone?
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Danny
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« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2009, 09:38:41 PM »

Guys, I really appreciate the amount of involvement from you all.


Dependan, possibly it's your thread I was inspired by? Did you compare the sound before you switched saddle to bone?

I'm not sure which thread you meant, but I have never regretted switching to a bone saddle in any guitar I have owned. My F-III has a bone saddle now as well as bone pins. My OM-21 has a new bone saddle with a Baggs transducer under it, other than tweaking it a little on top to get the intonation spot on I like it, the tone is great. The D-09 was greatly improved by removing the fishman transducer and putting in a bone nut.
              Saddles and transducer ribbons can cause some big issues with transfer of energy to the top.
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« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2009, 09:51:56 PM »

Hi Frankhond,

I'd really like to encourage you to make only changes that can be completely and easily reversed.

Unless you are going to keep this guitar for life you might want to consider resale value.  

As a potential purchasor of a guitar like this the cost of adding a pickup system  is a major deterrent to purchasing it (if  like me, you can't do the work yourself).  

If you can do things in a way that will let you restore the guitar's electronics to a working state then go ahead. But how sad it would be if you cut things out and find that the improvement is slight or unnoticeable. A potential purchasor will never be able to appreciate the difference if s/he cannot compare.

Anyway - here is just my personal take on things. The unamplified difference in sound (with/without) electronics has never been an issue for me, but a guitar that has been permanently altered to remove a factory installed system - well that's almost certainly not going to get on my shortlist for a purchase.  

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frankhond
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« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2009, 11:33:53 PM »

Ok thanks everyone, I'll get back when I have made a few nondestructive tests. 
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Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2009, 12:13:32 AM »

The preamp in the side may not be attractive but the alternative will be less so.

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Roger


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« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2009, 07:59:21 PM »

Ugh, ugly. So I will definitely have to invent a cover - hey, maybe that's a new product idea, a hole cover for that promille of guitar players who remove the electronics...
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Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2009, 10:10:09 PM »

You could fabricate a thin piece of wood to cover the hole and screw it into place from the inside using the existing holes.
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Roger


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dave42
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« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2010, 01:33:20 AM »

Looks like the place to tape your play list with keys, and first couple of words, etc..  Tape the card/paper over the hole!

No real answer, really... Good Luck!
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Dave
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« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2010, 12:19:22 PM »

I think it is not such a good idea to remove the pre amp. Down the road such a change in the guitar will make it very hard to sell. I guess if nothing was changes on the guitar you could put it back in and hope that it will still work. I would learn to love the guitar as it is and if you cannot try to find a deal on one with out the pick up system. Bottom line is that it is your guitar and you are the one who needs to enjoy it. Of all the ideas here the wood cover is the best as you would still have the option of putting the system back in down the road for use or sale.
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Michael T
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« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2010, 12:55:57 PM »

You bought the wrong guitar!

The question that really arises now is do you want to suffer with it knowing it is not what you want, alter it (which may render it unsaleable or at the least a huge hit in resale), or take the hit now and sell/trade for another.

Trying to come up with a way to invent a  reversable alteration is going to take you a lot of time, some money, and effort that eventually you still are going to have to disclose to a subsequent buyer while never knowing if you will be satisfied with the result sound wise and looks wise. I would suggest you buy what you really want and sell your current guitar for the best price you can get, chalking the loss up to experience. These instruments are way too expensive and delicate to be messing around with to end up in a closet due to lack of satisfaction that starts the day you get it.
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« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2010, 01:17:43 PM »

I am not sure I understand why you want to remove the preamp. If you don't use the electronics, that doesn't necessitate removing them, does it?
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« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2010, 04:28:01 PM »

I think I would get a piece of brass or copper just thick enough to hold a curve, and cut it to just larger than the pre-amp. File the edges smooth, round the corners, and gently bend it by hand around a large pipe or dowel until it matches the contour of the guitar. Make sure the screw holes line up with the existing ones from the preamp, and make sure the underside is smooth so you don't scratch any of the finish. You can plate, coat, paint, or veneer over the metal if you want - Or maybe a little custom engraving?

Keep all the parts you removed in good shape, and you can reinstall if your situation or interests change -  It would make an interesting custom guitar if done well!

Tad
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