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Author Topic: F-IV special order 00-03MT by the forum & Trinity Guitars  (Read 334928 times)
jbrummer
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« Reply #1820 on: May 26, 2010, 06:50:56 PM »

I know it's a huge downer to wait so long for something so special and then have it end up being less than expected.  I suppose a certain amount of variability is to be expected with all-wood guitars . . . but the picture you took suggests a defect that's just a bit too much to simply overlook.  All this means you're probably looking at some more shipping hassles . . . but I bet, once it's all said and done, you'll also have the guitar you dreamed of -- and one you can own with pride for years and years.
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« Reply #1821 on: May 26, 2010, 07:57:17 PM »

Speaking of built quality, I found that the neck of Forum IV has also some strange "quality".



Do your Forum IV guitar have the same "quality"???

cheers,
Peter

Mine looks very similar. I'll have to check it out again when I get home. Is this a structural issue, or is it only cosmetic?
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« Reply #1822 on: May 26, 2010, 08:24:45 PM »

Bummer that the neck fit is so rough. Mine looks nothing like that. I've scrutinized every inch of my #24 and could only find 1 small inclusion in the finish (I'll have to look for it again when I get home, because it took me awhile to find it the first time) and I could find no flaws at all in the fit.

I am still having a great time getting to know my new guitar. I'm obviously a Larrivee fan, but seeing the pics of that neck fit makes me a bit uneasy about buying again sight unseen. Would be nice to have a quick look-over before buying, but not always possible - especially with a special order - and being a lefty at that.

Let us know what Larrivee decides to do about the situation. I'd like to hear that Larrivee considers this a warrantied flaw and is set to fix it.
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« Reply #1823 on: May 26, 2010, 08:47:59 PM »

I doubt if it is a structural issue. 

I looked at mine again this morning and it's perfect compared to that.  Pics at 11...
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« Reply #1824 on: May 26, 2010, 08:53:57 PM »

Mine looks very similar. I'll have to check it out again when I get home. Is this a structural issue, or is it only cosmetic?

Though I wasn't in on the Forum IV builds it is disturbing to see that joint and to learn of possibly others.  Of the four Larrys I own, fit and finish is excellent.  Maybe Vic Hitler, the narcoleptic comic, did the final inspection.  

(Now keep those cards and letters at home.  I know narcolepsy is a serious condition and shou
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« Reply #1825 on: May 26, 2010, 09:57:21 PM »

   Try slipping a piece of paper under the joint to see how far it goes in. If there is a void of some sort, definitely structural. My OM-05 went in about 3/8" around the joint, thus Larrivee getting right on it. If there's more than one of these, someone should have a talk with Q/C. A few out of 29 or 30? Too many. Shouldn't happen, my OM being the first I've ever seen. Neck was removed & reset after working on it. Took about a month to turn around here in the US, so you have decide.
   Like jb said, it would be worth it to send back if Larrivee approves it, which they should. Need an RA from them first, then a longer wait than you've had up to now. You will be a happy camper in the end. First pic I've seen of this on the F-IVs. And there are others? Everyone with this issue should email Larrivee with a pic/pics & see how they respond. Should be interesting?
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« Reply #1826 on: May 26, 2010, 09:58:23 PM »

Mine's good!!!! 
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« Reply #1827 on: May 26, 2010, 11:31:29 PM »

Mine's got a little of that but not much, closer to the fretboard.  I think the rest of the guitar looks near perfect.
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« Reply #1828 on: May 27, 2010, 01:59:22 AM »

I wouldn't speculate, these threads have a way of turning in the wrong direction.  Just contact Jim, he is probably already aware of it. Jim can contact Larrivee and they will take it from there.
Good luck.

p.s. it really looks poor.
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« Reply #1829 on: May 27, 2010, 06:10:08 AM »

Thank you all for your input and sharing...
I have emailed Jim and let me put his answer here to clear it up:

Peter,  I did not see that at the time but I could have missed it as well with so many guitars at one time. You have done what I would do in contacting Larrivee so we will need to wait for there reply.
Thank you
Jim Holler, Luthier
Trinity Guitars


I wouldn't speculate, these threads have a way of turning in the wrong direction.  Just contact Jim, he is probably already aware of it. Jim can contact Larrivee and they will take it from there.
Good luck.

p.s. it really looks poor.

Roger, I thought this thread is about Forum IV, from beginning, order phase, waiting phase, experience and sharing... either good or bad one.
What direction we should have here, if I may ask?

You are 100% correct... it looks "poor".  I did not expect this kind of quality from Larrivee and this level of guitar (price wise, at least for me).  It looks like a 100€ guitar from far east.

 
Peter
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« Reply #1830 on: May 27, 2010, 02:01:26 PM »

Roger, I thought this thread is about Forum IV, from beginning, order phase, waiting phase, experience and sharing... either good or bad one.
What direction we should have here, if I may ask?

 
Peter

You are correct.
I was just saying "I" wouldn't comment on how Larrivee might handle the issue, I'm sure it will be taken care of to your satisfaction. You have taken the proper steps in resolving the issue.

It just seems like everytime someone has a problem with their Larrivee and points it out here on the forum there becomes a lot of speculation as to what Larrivee should or should not do to make it right. I have no doubt they will do the right thing. I don't believe there is anything to be gained by some of the negative reaction that is common in these issues, it just causes anxiety for the person with the guitar in question. You did the correct thing in asking if anyone else had a similar problem, just take any negative reaction with a grain of salt.

It is very unfortunate that this guitar was shipped overseas where the delivery time is a long one. If I were to speculate I would do it positively and suggest that maybe they will let you hold on to the guitar and enjoy it "as is" while they build you a new one.  Jean travels a lot, maybe he will deliver the new one to you personally to avoid all the red tape.
How's that for some positive speculation.


    
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« Reply #1831 on: May 27, 2010, 02:11:01 PM »


On mine the edge of the join isn't as crisp as I would have liked, but nothing to keep me up at night. I'm no expert but it looks like they put it on a belt sander with too coarse a grit that chipped out the wood at the edge rather than cutting it.

Sorry about yours but try to think of the glass as 99% full 

Speaking of built quality, I found that the neck of Forum IV has also some strange "quality".

Do your Forum IV guitar have the same "quality"???

cheers,
Peter
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« Reply #1832 on: May 27, 2010, 06:01:01 PM »

Thank you Roger...
your idea is really positive :D  Lets see what Larrivee will say about that.
This is what I call a good forum, brainstorming and exchange ideas how to solve problem. 

I have tried to slip paper and it didnt go in.  So I hope this is only cosmetic.  Like jp said, I try to look this situation as a glass 99,8% full.

@bluesman1: how long did it take to get Larrivee response with your OM-05 issue?

@Denis: thank you for your input.  I am thinking also "almost" the same like you.  It really plays and sound good... I fell in love already with this one  blush

 
Peter
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« Reply #1833 on: May 27, 2010, 07:21:21 PM »


I have tried to slip paper and it didnt go in.  So I hope this is only cosmetic.  Like jp said, I try to look this situation as a glass 99,8% full.

 
Peter

Yeah, I hope my comment didn't make too light of your issue, it hurts a bit to think what we've been waiting on for 5 months didn't arrive perfect. But having another look at it, it's occurred to me that the problem could simply be that the grain of the wood got porous just at the surface where it joined the body giving it a ragged appearance. If so, that's just an unfortunate luck of the draw, just as if you got an asymmetrical dark streak of grain in the mahogany.

At "A" the grain at the surface is smooth and tight but as the wood get thicker near the join the porous fibrous area of the grain is at the surface as in "B". Lots of open voids in the wood there that gets filled in. So "C" and "D" could be predominantly caused by the open gaps in the wood fiber, some of which would chip at the ends when filed down since that layer of wood isn't nearly as dense as "A" would be.

But I'm no expert, my qualifications are that I took Shop in jr high and I have a 6" radial saw 

 

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« Reply #1834 on: May 27, 2010, 08:16:40 PM »

 
thanks jp...
your 6" radial saw lighten up my day  bigrin

 
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« Reply #1835 on: May 27, 2010, 08:25:24 PM »


thanks jp...
your 6" radial saw lighten up my day  bigrin

 

Now that I re-read that, it wasn't intended as a double entendre, if so it'd have been 10". . .

Heck, 12". . .
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« Reply #1836 on: May 28, 2010, 02:35:55 AM »

Here's #27.  Notice there are some rough places up north, but not worth worrying about, unlike Peter's.

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« Reply #1837 on: May 28, 2010, 01:46:48 PM »

Here's #27.  Notice there are some rough places up north, but not worth worrying about, unlike Peter's.



Yours doesn't look bad, but the others look like the saw they used needs a new blade...
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« Reply #1838 on: May 28, 2010, 03:31:36 PM »

Yours doesn't look bad, but the others look like the saw they used needs a new blade...

Final dovetail/neck fitting doesn't involve saws and machinery. The final fit is all chisel and or scribe sanding done by hand. It is work for a craftsman. CNC milled necks notwithstanding, it takes skill, and desire to do good work; to get it right. A human being still needs to do the final detail work like fitting the neck join.The dovetail is a beautifully simple and elegant joint that, via a pinching action, pulls the heel tighter to the body as the tenon and cheek material are pared. The fitting/paring allows the tenon to drop into the mortise while adjusting the centerline and neck angle towards a pre determined geometry all the while puling the heel tighter to the body as the tenon drops into the mortise. But, it takes craftmanship to execute properly.
 Paring the heel takes a very sharp chisel, with a proper paring angle honed, along with a steady hand. You are, after all, trying to smoothly and cleanly remove slivers of wood, substantially thinner than the thickness of writing paper, from the end grain of hardwood. Done carefully and well executed, the heel appears to grow out of the guitar body. It appears, in this case, to be an issue of a dull chisel and employee with  an attitude of "good enough." The attitude of "good enough" continued all the way through the manufacturing/supply chain until the customer ended up with the instrument.


By the way, if you want to see work that is worse than that neck and costs a whole lot more, start looking over Gibson guitars in your local shops. Some of the workmanship I have been seeing on their 2000+ guitars look like shop projects for middle school kids. It ain't just Larrivee that has stinkers come out the doors. Bad lazy attitudes are everywhere. It is getting to the point where the PAC rim guitars are catching up to, and will soon surpass, the North American manufacturers in everything, price, sound, and workmanship. Just like in nearly every other industry. Welcome to the new world order.
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« Reply #1839 on: May 28, 2010, 04:40:43 PM »

I was talking about the rough cut on the wood that was showing on some of the others, but you are right that should be part of the dovetail fitting process to clean that up.
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