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Author Topic: F-IV special order 00-03MT by the forum & Trinity Guitars  (Read 325821 times)
jwsamuel
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« Reply #280 on: November 26, 2009, 06:29:07 PM »

If Larrivee were extruding guitars from a vat of raw materials that were delivered by generic tanker truck to automated machinery run by minimally trained factory workers, there would be some validity to these arguments.

It actually is that simple. By this point in its existence, Larrivee should know how long it takes to bend sides, how long it takes to glue kerfing, how long it takes to attach the top, etc. We are not talking about one-of-a-kind handbuilt guitars. We are talking about production line guitars.

You cannot  just pick up the phone and order a unit of mahogany - there are no warehouses of this stuff that can FedEx soundboard quality material to you overnight.

Actually, you can do just that. And you don't even need to get it shipped to you overnight because the wood supplier can give you the price and availability over the phone.

Larrivee has right now - and I'm guessing based on my visits - somewhere between 1 and 2 dozen employees. And thats at both plants combined. Everyone is hands-on. I watched the P-03s being made in Oxnard, and Jean and Matthew were very hands-on in those builds. I doubt CF Martin IV is on the assembly line routing bindings on his entry level guitars.

Absolutely correct. Chris Martin is not on the line building guitars. He is running the business. And no matter what romantic notions there are of it, a guitar company is there to sell guitars. Chris Martin runs the business and lets others build the guitars. He does not do their jobs and leave his job undone. If Jean and Matthew Larrivee are building guitars, who is running the business?


We know that Jean and Matthew are trying to finish some P-03Rs, we know they are building a couple dozen 00-03s, as well as mandolins, electrics, and the usual Ls, Ds, and OMs. They also MAY be closing a plant - if the posts here have any validity - and from those posts it sounds like there may be a few unhappy employees. That may not be boosting their productivity.

Those are all issues of running a business. But if you do not put customer service first, those issues will all go away.

Plus they are probably trying to ship instruments out for the holiday shopping season, while also trying to have a little time for themselves to spend with their families - this is a family-run company, and almost every member of the family is very involved in it. ( Can you imagine Jean as Father Christmas with his grandkids! )

I saw an interview on TV with Paul Reed Smith. He recently had to lay off 15% of his employees and told the interviewer that he is now working seven days a week and told his wife she will not see much of him for several months. When you own a business and have people depending on you, that's what you have to do.

Know now, that Larrivee will build to their standards and time frame, not ours.

That's fine. But I am the customers and if their way does not match my expectations, I can go elsewhere. Fortunately for me, it is currently easier for customers to find guitars to purchase than it is for companies to find customers.

They are doing what they do the way they do it.

History is full of failed companies who did things their way instead of the way customers want.

Customers who want a Larrivee won't but just anything else because they have to wait a couple more weeks - maybe your product has less brand loyalty, or is so generic that price or delivery date are the only things that influence your potential customers. But not Larrivee guitars -

I sure hope the people at Larrivee do not believe that. There has never been a time when customers have had more choices at more levels of quality and at more price ranges than they have right now. Brand loyalty may make some people wait, but it does not apply to most people who buy guitars.

Remember that people on this forum are unlike most guitar buyers. Most people who buy guitars go to Sam Ash, Guitar Center or another dealer to look and play what is hanging on the wall. They have no allegiance to a particular brand, though they may have heard about Martin or Gibson guitars. They look at what's out there and then make a choice.

Larrivee's way of doing things has keeps them out of GC, is making them disappear from Sam Ash and is causing other dealers to drop their line so they are not in many stores. No big name artist play Larrivee guitars, the company is not advertising. So how are people supposed to learn about Larrivee guitars and develop brand loyalty? The number of people in this forum who will not buy anything else is not enough to support a guitar company.


Jim
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BenF
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« Reply #281 on: November 26, 2009, 06:38:39 PM »

As for how many chances I give everyone, if there are two businesses that offer the same thing and one wants my business more than the other, I go with the one that wants my business.

that is very sensible in business. I feel exactly the same. My point is that larrivee do not offer the same as martin, Taylor, Gibson etc. That is why we are members of this forum (generally).  Larrivee score on the quality of the product in a marketplace where quality speaks a million times louder than speed of service.  Further up the chain, how long would you wait for a Ryan for example. Would you expect an instant response on all questions, or would you expect to get a detailed researched and accurate response.

Larrivee tread the middle ground between factory production line v hand built, affordable v expensive, economical business v family enterprise. Give them credit for not losing sight of that.

And +1 to what Tad said.
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Ben
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jwsamuel
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« Reply #282 on: November 26, 2009, 06:42:47 PM »

Further up the chain, how long would you wait for a Ryan for example. Would you expect an instant response on all questions, or would you expect to get a detailed researched and accurate response.

Well, I can tell you that when I needed to contact Martin, I was easily able to get someone on the phone and get the help I needed.

When I needed help with a Bourgeois that was not even under warranty because I was not the original owner,  was easily able to get someone on the phone and get the help I needed.

Jim
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BenF
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« Reply #283 on: November 26, 2009, 06:49:05 PM »

Jim, don't get me wrong, I accept your previous experience with customer services was unacceptable for any company, and see inconsistencies in customer services at Larrivee as a bit of a problem. I refer specifically to seeking a quote for a custom order, which is what this thread is about.
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Ben
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Danny
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« Reply #284 on: November 26, 2009, 06:52:21 PM »

 crying
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« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2009, 06:53:32 PM »

Sorry danny, I'll shut up now.
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Ben
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jamesb1101
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« Reply #286 on: November 26, 2009, 06:55:12 PM »

First, I would like everyone to take a deep breath as other's have said and relax. I am new to this forum and am discouraged by the animosity. I am ok whether we get a price tomorrow or in two weeks. The reality is that we are able to purchase these special guitars from Larrive. This is great in my opinion as I hope to have something that few in the world will have. This is fantastic...

In regards to having two competitors and going to the one that responds, I know that there are not two different Larrivee company's, but if you can find one go for it.

Other than this, can we please all get along (a tad bit of sarcasm).

One last observation, all I see is speculation and assumptions, and we all know what happens when we assume...so, be glad and THANKFUL that Larrivee is willing to make these guitars, because if I were Jean and was aware of all this bashing, I might decide otherwise...

Again, I believe this is Thanksgiving, so can we please be thankful...

I know, I am new, so I hope I did not offend anyone. If I did, well it happens more times than not. Get over it and be an adult...
 
-James

 
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« Reply #287 on: November 26, 2009, 07:04:28 PM »

Sorry danny, I'll shut up now.
  Ben it's not your post, it's this whole long ongoing debate about business and the way Larrivee operates. 
               I am disappointed but Tad put this all in perspective, as far as I'm concerned.
                      No worries though for anyone, just say what needs to be said.
      I'll shut up myself.
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« Reply #288 on: November 26, 2009, 08:07:48 PM »

If all this is is a quote for a special order for you, you can contact a few different dealers - they are listed on Larrivees website.

I thought this was about getting a special run of guitars for Forum members, with a little non-standard specification, from a specific dealer who was also offering some additional service not normally included, at a really special price - ie, expecting alot of favors and special treatment based on our long-term relationship, understanding, and support of the company - which apparently a few may not feel, but still expect the benefit of -

I don't really care if someone gets PO'd, or feels the need to try to demonstrate advanced understanding of an industry they clearly don't understand. For some, making money doing one thing is all the validation they need to prove they can do anything else, or are always right -  cool -

Those of us who took part in the F3 order are a little anxious because we know just how great this deal can be, and how special these guitars will be. But I think we also know that it will happen the way it will happen - based on our actual experience. Arguments, however well stated, evidenced, or loudly made, won't change that -

There are a couple of sweet 00s and a couple lovely  MTs in the FS section - for a few extra dollars you can probably have any of them in your hands within a week. If you want a great 00-03MT, you're just gonna have to wait patiently, and see what happens. If you want it now, and new, well, here's a great option -

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/SC1929.htm

I've played one, and you won't be disappointed - ( oh, and they answer the phone during all business hours, except during lunch - )

Tad
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« Reply #289 on: November 26, 2009, 08:26:20 PM »

Tad,

You always have great words of wisdom.
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« Reply #290 on: November 26, 2009, 08:29:57 PM »

Jim,

you might want to keep in mind that Larrivee is not Martin. I think you could do yourself a big favour by going with another manufacturer who answers the phone when you call and provides answers as quickly as you expect them to. Buying a forum guitar is an experience based in patience.
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« Reply #291 on: November 26, 2009, 08:34:05 PM »

As much as I like my F-III LS-03R, and it has been opening up VERY nicely, I hope Larrivee will not hurry to build the F-IV.  The F-III nut was not cut correctly and QC didn't flag it.  I had to replace it.

I say let Larrivee do it without having to meet a deadline.  I'll be patient.

edited for accuracy...
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« Reply #292 on: November 26, 2009, 08:42:38 PM »

Lyricgirl, you told me earlier that I don't know you if I use the word "intellectual" in reference to you. Well excuse me, but it seems to me that you have more wisdom in you than you could shake a stick at. And a big kind heart to go with it. Who needs more than that.....?  bigrin Rick
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Danny
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« Reply #293 on: November 26, 2009, 08:52:51 PM »

As much as I like my F-III LS-03R, and it has been opening up VERY nicely, I hope Larrivee will not hurry to build the F-IV.  The F-IV (F-III) nut was not cut correctly and QC didn't flag it.  I had to replace it.

I say let Larrivee do it without having to meet a deadline.  I'll be patient.
Hi prof. all I have is a G.E.D. but on the nut I'm sure you meant F-III (for the sake of newbies and those not here during the F-III build)

If all this is is a quote for a special order for you, you can contact a few different dealers - they are listed on Larrivees website.

I thought this was about getting a special run of guitars for Forum members, with a little non-standard specification, from a specific dealer who was also offering some additional service not normally included, at a really special price - ie, expecting alot of favors and special treatment based on our long-term relationship, understanding, and support of the company - which apparently a few may not feel, but still expect the benefit of -

I don't really care if someone gets PO'd, or feels the need to try to demonstrate advanced understanding of an industry they clearly don't understand. For some, making money doing one thing is all the validation they need to prove they can do anything else, or are always right -  cool -

Those of us who took part in the F3 order are a little anxious because we know just how great this deal can be, and how special these guitars will be. But I think we also know that it will happen the way it will happen - based on our actual experience. Arguments, however well stated, evidenced, or loudly made, won't change that -

There are a couple of sweet 00s and a couple lovely  MTs in the FS section - for a few extra dollars you can probably have any of them in your hands within a week. If you want a great 00-03MT, you're just gonna have to wait patiently, and see what happens. If you want it now, and new, well, here's a great option -

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/SC1929.htm

I've played one, and you won't be disappointed - ( oh, and they answer the phone during all business hours, except during lunch - )

Tad
     Tad, would you continue to post here, please? You are the right voice, at the right time. And we all need the calibration...or tuning, so to speak.
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« Reply #294 on: November 26, 2009, 09:06:10 PM »

Hi prof. all I have is a G.E.D. but on the nut I'm sure you meant F-III (for the sake of newbies and those not here during the F-III build)
Thanks.  I just edited it for accuracy.
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« Reply #295 on: November 26, 2009, 09:36:20 PM »

Buying a forum guitar is an experience based in patience.

Maybe I am a bit pathetic, but the whole forum III thing meant a lot to me.  I made friends, learned a whole lot about guitar making, and ended up with a fantastic guitar that has elements that instantly make me think of certain forum members - three dot fret market from Tuffy, Italian Spruce top suggested by Adam, Danny requesting the shallow body depth, Herringbone rosette requested through lengthy discussions, picks from photomat, the efforts of Lynda, Danny, photomat and Ricky (and others) to take pictures of my guitar in Vancouver and emailing them to me at 3 in the morning, ha ha!  Ricky's 'BREAKING NEWS' posts with my morning cuppa is something I will never forget.

I know some saw it as a guitar purchace like any other, but for some of us at least it was more than that.  Experience is the right work Lynda.  I enjoyed every minute of the experience

I know I said I'd shut up - I'm not arguing, I am just trying to be positive.

Ben

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Ben
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« Reply #296 on: November 26, 2009, 10:04:16 PM »

                 
  Jim is the one who gave me the price for the 00-03. That's how this got started. Randy suggested that I ask a dealer to make a MT in the current run of 00's. So when I asked Jim he contacted Larrivee and they were to far along in the 00-03 run, but if 4 would order a 00-03MT then we could do it.
           Then I posted this thread and it transformed into a F-IV. So I have a good idea of the price but I could be wrong, so I'm waiting like everyone else.

I'm sorry Danny, I should have been more specific. The Jim I was referring too was  jwsamuel.

Probably, because there currently is no 00-03, or 00-05, 00-09, 00-50, etc, in the Larrivee line-up to establish an estimated price.
I was just responding to this post from Danny.

  Larrivee is currently making a 00-03 run of guitars. Some have ordered them here on the forum.
                   I got the price for that one with one e-mail.

     We were told it would take one day to get the price for the 00-03MT

            It should have been to us already. That's the bottom line.
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« Reply #297 on: November 26, 2009, 10:05:44 PM »

Here are a few pics of the 3 piece neck on my P-03.  Note the joint at the heel and if you look closely at side of the headstock you'll see the line of the other joint just above the low E tuner.  Hope these help give some idea. 

Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks for the pic's acoustic6.  Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
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Roger


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« Reply #298 on: November 26, 2009, 10:16:25 PM »

Maybe I am a bit pathetic, but the whole forum III thing meant a lot to me.  I made friends, learned a whole lot about guitar making, and ended up with a fantastic guitar that has elements that instantly make me think of certain forum members - three dot fret market from Tuffy, Italian Spruce top suggested by Adam, Danny requesting the shallow body depth, Herringbone rosette requested through lengthy discussions, picks from photomat, the efforts of Lynda, Danny, photomat and Ricky (and others) to take pictures of my guitar in Vancouver and emailing them to me at 3 in the morning, ha ha!  Ricky's 'BREAKING NEWS' posts with my morning cuppa is something I will never forget.

I know some saw it as a guitar purchace like any other, but for some of us at least it was more than that.  Experience is the right work Lynda.  I enjoyed every minute of the experience (except Her Majesty's Customs and Excise keeping it for 2 weeks - isn't the UK great!)

I know I said I'd shut up - I'm not arguing, I am just trying to be positive.

Ben


  Ditto Ben. It was a cool experience for all of us.


I'm sorry Danny, I should have been more specific. The Jim I was referring too was  jwsamuel.
I was just responding to this post from Danny.

                  Roger it's good to have your input here. I get confused at times. (ADHD) I have medicine for it but sometimes I see things backwards too. Anyway, I am very happy to see the members who have a some good experience and knowledge of Larrivee to post here.
                                  In fact DUCK, I know you must read this thread. What are your thoughts and walkerman.

                     In fact I would like a lot more input from the forum myself.
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« Reply #299 on: November 26, 2009, 10:36:18 PM »

  I get confused at times. (ADHD) I have medicine for it but sometimes I see things backwards too.

I thought I was the only one.  Sometimes I think the money I spend on the medicine just makes my head spin more.
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Roger


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