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Author Topic: F-IV special order 00-03MT by the forum & Trinity Guitars  (Read 326613 times)
jwsamuel
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« Reply #260 on: November 26, 2009, 04:02:37 PM »

Jim with all due respect, the guitar has not been described. No one on this forum knows what the specifications are.
1.) 15 guitars is a small order for a company that produces 10s of thousands of guitars each year.

Larrivee is not producing 10s of thousands of guitars each year in the current economy. Martin made 68,931 guitars last year. I doubt that Larrivee made half that.

2.) 03 is Larrivee's entry level.

Yes it is. Are you suggesting that Larrivee should ignore the 03 series? It seems to me that the low end of the market is where sales are coming from right now. Again, look at Martin. It introduced the 1 series of low end guitars in 2008 and sold every one it could make. In addition, the fact that it is an 03 series guitar should make setting a price even easier, given the number of 03 series guitars.
 


3.) I don't see this as in any way a reflection of Larrivee not taking care of one of their dealers. "Care" is the key operative here. Not "speed".

Speed is extremely important. A dealer is a business and one of the keys of good business is taking care of your customers when they want to be taken care of, not when you are ready to take care of them. A number of dealers have dropped Larrivee over the past year or so. There has to be a reason why.

And as I said elsewhere, if Larrivee does not yet have pricing down to a process, they have a lot of catching up to do.


2.) 03 is Larrivee's entry level.
3.)4.) All of this is unrelated to any customer service issues you may have with the company.[/quote]

Yes, it is related. If a company is slow to respond when they have the opportunity to make sales, why would anyone think they would not be slow to respond if there are issues? In my case, they did not respond to multiple communications via email, telephone and regular mail.

You can call Martin on the phone and talk to someone right away. Same with Taylor, Breedlove and others. You cannot call Larrivee and get anything other than a recorded message. Business is too competitive right now to waste time on anything. And remember, Larrivee is in business to SELL guitars, not make them.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too....and to everyone else.

Jim
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jwsamuel
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« Reply #261 on: November 26, 2009, 04:06:39 PM »

Seems to me that the only answer would be for you to find another company.  Or maybe with your vast business experience, you could start one.

I have started companies and ran a business for nine years before closing it to join the company I now work for. The biggest lesson I learned is that if you do not respond to potential customers quickly, they will find someone else who will. And once they do that, you have very little chance of getting them back.

As for starting one, I may do it again. But right now, I have a great job working for a company that generates more than $5 billion a year in revenue and has more than 40,000 employees. And, as I said in a different thread, because of the way the business is run, we have just recorded the three best quarters the company has ever had -- even in the midst of a recession.

Jim
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lyric_girl
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« Reply #262 on: November 26, 2009, 04:24:48 PM »

Jim, I really think you need to take a chill pill, read the 46 page Forum III thread to see just how that all played out and/or forget about getting the Forum IV. This is not a quick process. With the Forum III, there was tons of talk about the specs long before we got the price. Then there was a month to get your order/deposit in and then the waiting began.

We have no idea about the status of either Larrivee factory and their current commitments. I think getting all hot and bothered over not having a price essentially three days after this thread started is quite frankly, rediculous!

Just my six cents.
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BenF
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« Reply #263 on: November 26, 2009, 04:32:28 PM »

Larrivee is not producing 10s of thousands of guitars each year in the current economy. Martin made 68,931 guitars last year. I doubt that Larrivee made half that.

Last I looked, that was 10s of thousands.

Bottom line for me is that it would be much easier for Larrivee to just say no to such an order.  Regardless of whether Jim is a dealer making a custom order, I am pretty sure that Larrivee will have been told by Jim that this is a forum IV order, not a Jim Holler order.  Based on the experience of the forum III, I suspect that Larrivee will be discussing the best deal they can give the forum.  I think the F-III was very competatively priced considering the subtle extras. 

I know that a number Larrivee employees read this forum (this became apparent during the forum III process) - I don't know if they just lurk, or if they are cleverly posing as one of us and joining in the fun, but they are present.  I can't help but feel the tone of this thread is missing the point a little now, and we should remember that Larrivee are doing us something of a favour, in return for effectively free advertising that the 'unofficial' forum provides for them.

You may disagree, but the extra care, effort, choice of prettiest woods, added little extras (herringbone trim etc.) on the F-III took it way beyond the standard 03 series package for me.  Larrivee could have treated it like any other std. dealers custom order and gone through the motions, but they went the extra mile for the forum.  Maybe I am delusional, but that would be your opinion.

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« Reply #264 on: November 26, 2009, 04:33:08 PM »

I like reading Jim's comments. People used to get mad at me when I would offer my opinions on these threads....now we have Jim!
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« Reply #265 on: November 26, 2009, 04:37:23 PM »

I like reading Jim's comments. People used to get mad at me when I would offer my opinions on these threads....now we have Jim!

Ah, taking sides now are we....... mad mad mad mad

 

Its all discussion, no pitchforks and torches..........yet, ha ha
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« Reply #266 on: November 26, 2009, 04:45:25 PM »

   Larrivee is currently making a 00-03 run of guitars. Some have ordered them here on the forum.
                   I got the price for that one with one e-mail.

     We were told it would take one day to get the price for the 00-03MT

            It should have been to us already. That's the bottom line.
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« Reply #267 on: November 26, 2009, 04:49:34 PM »

I have started companies and ran a business for nine years before closing it to join the company I now work for. The biggest lesson I learned is that if you do not respond to potential customers quickly, they will find someone else who will. And once they do that, you have very little chance of getting them back.

As for starting one, I may do it again. But right now, I have a great job working for a company that generates more than $5 billion a year in revenue and has more than 40,000 employees. And, as I said in a different thread, because of the way the business is run, we have just recorded the three best quarters the company has ever had -- even in the midst of a recession.
Jim

Well apparently Larrivee is not meeting your expectations...  and you seem to be the only one.  Maybe it's time to find a guitar company that will better satisfy your needs.  I'm just saying, some of this anger and vitriol can't be healthy.  Sometimes it's best to move on.

Ed
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« Reply #268 on: November 26, 2009, 05:14:48 PM »

   Larrivee is currently making a 00-03 run of guitars. Some have ordered them here on the forum.
                   I got the price for that one with one e-mail.

     We were told it would take one day to get the price for the 00-03MT

            It should have been to us already. That's the bottom line.
Why don't you just PM Jim the price for the 00-03. He can add a $100 or $200 for the Hog top upgrade and have a ballpark figure.  If you know the price of a 00-03 the F-IV can't be too far off that, certainly not less.
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jwsamuel
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« Reply #269 on: November 26, 2009, 05:21:45 PM »

Well apparently Larrivee is not meeting your expectations...  and you seem to be the only one.  Maybe it's time to find a guitar company that will better satisfy your needs.  I'm just saying, some of this anger and vitriol can't be healthy.  Sometimes it's best to move on.

Ed,

I had decided about a year ago -- after the company failed to respond to a concern I had -- that I would no longer purchase new Larrivee guitars. I like the guitars and will purchase used. The best reason to buy new is that if you are the original owner, you have the company standing behind its products. In my case, Larrivee did not only not stand behind its product, it totally ignored me. So in that case, there is no benefit to spending the extra money for a new guitar.

When I saw this thread, I became interested in this guitar and started to think about buying a new guitar from Larrivee once again. At the beginning of this thread, we were told that the price would be available in a day. It was not. So to me, this is just another case of Larrivee being unresponsive, and it confirms my previous decision rather than overturn it.

I am not angry about this. However, I am disappointed that Larrivee continues to be so unresponsive to its customers...particularly in a time when it -- and the entire industry -- is hurting. Their lack of response to issues, the inability to call them, the number of dealers who are dropping their line and their lack of response here make me wonder how serious they are about running their business.

Jim
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Danny
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« Reply #270 on: November 26, 2009, 05:25:25 PM »

I like reading Jim's comments. People used to get mad at me when I would offer my opinions on these threads....now we have Jim!
 Sorry, if it was me. I get a little too deep into this stuff and then get my head cleared up by being away from it. Then when I come back to this process sometimes I see it completely in a different light.
        Everyone should be able to speak there mind on a Forum Guitar.
                  
I just may need to draft some  help to scan thru all these extra pages and       glean the interested members names and PM them the price.

Why don't you just PM Jim the price for the 00-03. He can add a $100 or $200 for the Hog top upgrade and have a ballpark figure.  If you know the price of a 00-03 the F-IV can't be too far off that, certainly not less.
 Jim is the one who gave me the price for the 00-03. That's how this got started. Randy suggested that I ask a dealer to make a MT in the current run of 00's. So when I asked Jim he contacted Larrivee and they were to far along in the 00-03 run, but if 4 would order a 00-03MT then we could do it.
           Then I posted this thread and it transformed into a F-IV. So I have a good idea of the price but I could be wrong, so I'm waiting like everyone else.
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« Reply #271 on: November 26, 2009, 05:26:47 PM »

Well apparently Larrivee is not meeting your expectations...  and you seem to be the only one.  Maybe it's time to find a guitar company that will better satisfy your needs.  I'm just saying, some of this anger and vitriol can't be healthy.  Sometimes it's best to move on.  Ed
Not to worry, Ed.  It is good to air out opinions.  That is what these forums do.  As far as we know, Larrivee might be fighting for their survival, what with the rumor of them closing Oxnard and the inability to answer the phone.  Jim and Danny and others have legitimate concerns.  

This go-around of a forum guitar quickly gathered steam but there are still many questions.  I say let the fur fly and see what happens.  

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving today, for those who honor the day.
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« Reply #272 on: November 26, 2009, 05:32:08 PM »

Why don't you just PM Jim the price for the 00-03.

Probably, because there currently is no 00-03, or 00-05, 00-09, 00-50, etc, in the Larrivee line-up to establish an estimated price.
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« Reply #273 on: November 26, 2009, 05:35:11 PM »

Probably, because there currently is no 00-03, or 00-05, 00-09, 00-50, etc, in the Larrivee line-up to establish an estimated price.
  You missed my post above, just look back a few.
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lyric_girl
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« Reply #274 on: November 26, 2009, 05:47:37 PM »

At the beginning of this thread, we were told that the price would be available in a day. It was not. So to me, this is just another case of Larrivee being unresponsive, and it confirms my previous decision rather than overturn it.

Jim

Just curious, do you always give everybody just one chance to fulfill your requests?

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« Reply #275 on: November 26, 2009, 05:57:54 PM »

Here are a few pics of the 3 piece neck on my P-03.  Note the joint at the heel and if you look closely at side of the headstock you'll see the line of the other joint just above the low E tuner.  Hope these help give some idea. 

Happy Thanksgiving!

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« Reply #276 on: November 26, 2009, 06:00:49 PM »

If Larrivee were extruding guitars from a vat of raw materials that were delivered by generic tanker truck to automated machinery run by minimally trained factory workers, there would be some validity to these arguments.

But that is why manufacturing solid wood instruments is so different from almost everything else - even building solid wood furniture. You cannot  just pick up the phone and order a unit of mahogany - there are no warehouses of this stuff that can FedEx soundboard quality material to you overnight. And they don't even have a quantity to base their material needs on -

Larrivee has right now - and I'm guessing based on my visits - somewhere between 1 and 2 dozen employees. And thats at both plants combined. Everyone is hands-on. I watched the P-03s being made in Oxnard, and Jean and Matthew were very hands-on in those builds. I doubt CF Martin IV is on the assembly line routing bindings on his entry level guitars. We know that Jean and Matthew are trying to finish some P-03Rs, we know they are building a couple dozen 00-03s, as well as mandolins, electrics, and the usual Ls, Ds, and OMs. They also MAY be closing a plant - if the posts here have any validity - and from those posts it sounds like there may be a few unhappy employees. That may not be boosting their productivity. Plus they are probably trying to ship instruments out for the holiday shopping season, while also trying to have a little time for themselves to spend with their families - this is a family-run company, and almost every member of the family is very involved in it. ( Can you imagine Jean as Father Christmas with his grandkids! )

Add to all that the request has been made to build these from South American mahogany - difficult to get, especially in soundboard quality. They have lots of beautiful mahogany, but its other varieties, so I am sure they have to check stocks, and make judgement calls about suitability and quantity they are willing to commit to this project,  and see how it fits into the production with their other commitments. They may even be thinking about closing both plants for part of the holidays - and due to what they do, it is not as simple as turning out the lights and locking the doors, as it is at most companies.

Bottom line - this is not about beating up some Asian factory to get an order shipped to a fulfillment company to package and then ship to distributors who will handle the customers. The Larrivees have always done an outstanding job of building the Forum some beautiful guitars at outstanding prices. I am very glad for that, and will always cherish the ones I have. If they are unable to meet your expectations during the planning stage, save yourself ( and the rest of us ) from having to endure the rest of the process. Maybe Taylor or Martin can quote you and build your custom faster and provide details in a more timely fashion. Other companies can lay up some carbon fiber and lather on some petrochemical compound and you can have it as soon as it cures. Know now, that Larrivee will build to their standards and time frame, not ours.

You may feel you are a better businessman, or economist, or planner, but you either need to trust the Larrivee family as the high quality craftspeople and artists that they have proven to be, and trust that the instruments that they will eventually ship will be more than worth the wait and very reasonable cost you'll incur, or you need to drop out and buy something else - They are doing what they do the way they do it. It has created wonderful instruments, talented craftspeople, and some wonderful memories for alot of us. They aren't worried about making more guitars - only better ones. Customers who want a Larrivee won't but just anything else because they have to wait a couple more weeks - maybe your product has less brand loyalty, or is so generic that price or delivery date are the only things that influence your potential customers. But not Larrivee guitars -

I'd encourage everyone to relax and let the process work - I'm quite sure you will be very pleased with the end result -  Enjoy your holidays, enjoy your family, enjoy the guitars you have, make some music and share it with your friends and neighbors. The details you'll need to decide if this is for you will undoubtedly be available shortly -

Happy Thanksgiving - all the good people on this Forum are one more thing that I am thankful for -

Tad
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jwsamuel
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« Reply #277 on: November 26, 2009, 06:03:24 PM »

Just curious, do you always give everybody just one chance to fulfill your requests?

This was chance #2 for Larrivee.

As I mentioned previously, they totally ignored me with a customer service issue. This has just confirmed my expectations.

As for how many chances I give everyone, if there are two businesses that offer the same thing and one wants my business more than the other, I go with the one that wants my business.

Jim
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Danny
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« Reply #278 on: November 26, 2009, 06:09:18 PM »



I'd encourage everyone to relax and let the process work - I'm quite sure you will be very pleased with the end result -  Enjoy your holidays, enjoy your family, enjoy the guitars you have, make some music and share it with your friends and neighbors. The details you'll need to decide if this is for you will undoubtedly be available shortly -

Happy Thanksgiving - all the good people on this Forum are one more thing that I am thankful for -

Tad
 Well Tad, thanks for the whole post, but I especially needed this last part. I think I'll go mow the lawn or something. It's a beautiful day today.  Thank you Lord.
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« Reply #279 on: November 26, 2009, 06:23:55 PM »


I'd encourage everyone to relax and let the process work - I'm quite sure you will be very pleased with the end result -  Enjoy your holidays, enjoy your family, enjoy the guitars you have, make some music and share it with your friends and neighbors. The details you'll need to decide if this is for you will undoubtedly be available shortly -

Happy Thanksgiving - all the good people on this Forum are one more thing that I am thankful for -

Tad

While it appears that there is a fair amount of pent up frustration towards Larrivee by some Forum member, I want to re-iterate the extremely positive customer service I recieved while working with Jim Holler to resolve my finish issue on my Forum III Hog with the folks at Larrivee Guitar should be here tomorrow ~ I'm excited!!

Finally, follow Tad's advice...Life's too short!!

 ~ Ray ~


PS. If you've got some time to kill today, check out my sister (Diane Birch) playing with Daryl Hall at his home with his band. She was the October artist on his show, "live from Daryl's house". I flew out to be part of the event ~ the thrill of a lifetime  You can view it at www.lfdh.com.

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