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Author Topic: F-IV special order 00-03MT by the forum & Trinity Guitars  (Read 326170 times)
Danny
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« Reply #240 on: November 26, 2009, 12:36:50 AM »

Thanks Ben
  Truth is it would be a perfect size for you. I love em. My P-09's would literaly POP out of my grasp. It was a big frustration to me because I bought the most expensive model the second time. 
         But the 00-09 I had was perfect for me. Nice tone, comfortable lower bout size etc.
 I remember in a trip to the midwest one time when Bonnie was driving my pickup I pulled out the 00-09FM and could play it in the passengers seat. Not as easy as a parlour size would be but I could play it.
                  Anyway it's a size I don't understand dropping by any guitar manufacturer.
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« Reply #241 on: November 26, 2009, 12:40:04 AM »

sort of like this...

Queequeg, I've just caught up with the two extra pages that were added while it was night time in NZ. I'm almost certain that the three piece neck that would be used would be the type with the heel join and a long splay joint at the peghead. If I'm correct, there is no need to fear such a construction. The heel to neck joint has been used by Spanish luthiers since forever and the peghead splay joint would actually make the neck stronger in that area since it straightens the run of grain where the peghead curves. If you look at the side of the peghead on a one piece neck, you will see the grain getting somewhat diagonal on the side of the peghead- that diagonal grain is a lot weaker than if it ran straight. A properly glued splay joint (such as Larrivee would do) would actually produce a stronger neck and from what I have read, Larrivee conceal the glue line in the curved shaping that occurs just north of the nut. Do you have Cort guitars in the USA? They are bringing this splay joint down the neck as far as the 3rd or 4th fret and that DOES look strange. As for multi piece necks with the laminations running parallel to the strings, well that's another subject, but IMO and done properly, it would produce a more stable neck since any tendency by one piece to distort would be minimised by the others. But as for Martin's plywood - no thank you. Rick
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« Reply #242 on: November 26, 2009, 12:47:25 AM »

I think the sound difference will be more pronounced than you might imagine.


I was referring to the price not the sound.
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« Reply #243 on: November 26, 2009, 01:22:04 AM »

They must be doing okay there if they are not eager to sell more guitars.

Jim

I would be more inclined to believe that business is slow, with few people working. Probably a four day Holiday weekend for them.  As much as everyone would like a response on price, I would not expect anything till next week.
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« Reply #244 on: November 26, 2009, 02:22:51 AM »

I would be more inclined to believe that business is slow, with few people working. Probably a four day Holiday weekend for them.  As much as everyone would like a response on price, I would not expect anything till next week.

It just seems to me that if business is slow and you have a dealer needing a price for a potential order of a dozen or so guitars, you'd get on it and not put it off until next week.

Jim
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« Reply #245 on: November 26, 2009, 02:25:23 AM »

Jim, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think we got the pricing all that quickly for the FIII either.
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« Reply #246 on: November 26, 2009, 02:28:11 AM »

Jim, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think we got the pricing all that quickly for the FIII either.

Where I work, we try to respond to things immediately. That's one of the reasons we've been having record quarters during a recession. I guess I just assume that other businesses would be the same way.

With products like guitars -- which are not necessary purchases -- you want to get people to commit their money as quickly as possible. You don't want to give them a chance to look at other options, decide to buy something different instead, or decide that they'd be better off just saving the money. Get a deposit and people tend to remain committed to the purchase.

Jim
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« Reply #247 on: November 26, 2009, 02:42:54 AM »

It just seems to me that if business is slow and you have a dealer needing a price for a potential order of a dozen or so guitars, you'd get on it and not put it off until next week.

Jim

I have no dog in the fight but...

Wow...  holiday weekend...  an order of a dozen guitars for a company that makes many thousand guitars a year...    It seems to me that if enough of a pest is made of it, Larrivee could easily say it isn't worth the hassle.

I can't think of a  similar size and quality company who would even consider doing a short run like this.

Ed
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Danny
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« Reply #248 on: November 26, 2009, 02:56:16 AM »

   Just look at it this way  
      Where else are we going to order Larrivee 00-03MT's from?

                                                                   Get my point?
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« Reply #249 on: November 26, 2009, 03:55:25 AM »


With products like guitars -- which are not necessary purchases -- you want to get people to commit their money as quickly as possible. You don't want to give them a chance to look at other options, decide to buy something different instead, or decide that they'd be better off just saving the money. Get a deposit and people tend to remain committed to the purchase.

Jim
 
"Not Necessary" Jim maybe you got your GAS in check BUT not me, no no no I need a fix!!!!!!!
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« Reply #250 on: November 26, 2009, 04:38:35 AM »

I would be more inclined to believe that business is slow, with few people working. Probably a four day Holiday weekend for them.  As much as everyone would like a response on price, I would not expect anything till next week.

Nah, they're just busy finishing up my lefty RS-4 in Root Beer finish!!!  drool



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« Reply #251 on: November 26, 2009, 04:59:40 AM »

Queequeg, I've just caught up with the two extra pages that were added while it was night time in NZ. I'm almost certain that the three piece neck that would be used would be the type with the heel join and a long splay joint at the peghead. If I'm correct, there is no need to fear such a construction. The heel to neck joint has been used by Spanish luthiers since forever and the peghead splay joint would actually make the neck stronger in that area since it straightens the run of grain where the peghead curves. If you look at the side of the peghead on a one piece neck, you will see the grain getting somewhat diagonal on the side of the peghead- that diagonal grain is a lot weaker than if it ran straight. A properly glued splay joint (such as Larrivee would do) would actually produce a stronger neck and from what I have read, Larrivee conceal the glue line in the curved shaping that occurs just north of the nut. Do you have Cort guitars in the USA? They are bringing this splay joint down the neck as far as the 3rd or 4th fret and that DOES look strange. As for multi piece necks with the laminations running parallel to the strings, well that's another subject, but IMO and done properly, it would produce a more stable neck since any tendency by one piece to distort would be minimised by the others. But as for Martin's plywood - no thank you. Rick

I think you are correct about this 3 piece neck discussion. Probably something similar to a Taylor Nylon Series neck rather that something like this:

Jimmy
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« Reply #252 on: November 26, 2009, 08:31:05 AM »

I'd bet my house on it, Jimmy. But that's a beautiful example of the other type. What's that neck on? The Yamaha LL series does stuff like that and a luthier friend here in Dunedin always rips his neck stock down the centre and rotates the pieces (don't know which way) so that any stresses are reversed. My first decent (?) acoustic was a Framus dred that had a laminated neck with as many pieces as that Martin example above, but it was all of the same wood and stained evenly so that it didn't have the construction ply look that Martin has achieved. BTW did you see my post on the ukes made by the luthier mentioned above. I'm pretty sure his ukes would make you  drool, maybe I'll go into the shop and take a pic or two to show you what they look like.  Cheers, Rick
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Queequeg
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« Reply #253 on: November 26, 2009, 01:59:40 PM »

You guys are likely correct, Jimmy, and Lee. Point is, any and all multi-piece necks I have ever seen are structurally stronger than one piece necks (including that Martin). How many Gibson headstocks have you seen snapped off? Plenty!
This is not to say I don't want a one piece neck. They look better, for sure. And I am quite careful with my guitars so I think that I am at low risk of having any problem with a one-piece neck. Never have, anyway in all the years...
I can wait a while longer for the price. Larrivee has acknowledged the proposal and will reply with a price. First it has to be spec'ed out.
These things actually do take time. And this is not a case of "drop everything because we have a small order for a handful of entry level product!"
Let's take a collective deep breath and wait for a carefully considered spec sheet and corresponding price; not something thrown together to meet some arbitrary and imagined deadline. Larrivee doesn't work like that.
And Mikeymac, that rootbeer looks great, man.  
 nice guitar
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« Reply #254 on: November 26, 2009, 02:32:13 PM »

I can wait a while longer for the price. Larrivee has acknowledged the proposal and will reply with a price. First it has to be spec'ed out.
These things actually do take time. And this is not a case of "drop everything because we have a small order for a handful of entry level product!"
Let's take a collective deep breath and wait for a carefully considered spec sheet and corresponding price; not something thrown together to meet some arbitrary and imagined deadline. Larrivee doesn't work like that.

1. The guitar that has been described in this thread is not that difficult to spec out. Larrivee has been making guitars for how long? They are already making guitars in this body size. They are already using the same materials. Specing out this guitar is not a difficult process.

2. It is not a "small order for a handful of entry level product." It is a request from a dealer. Companies that want to thrive in a difficult environment have to take care of their dealers.

After being in business this long, Larrivee should be able to generate price quotes quickly. The cost of fretting a neck is the same for every guitar. The labor involved in bending the sides and building the guitar is the same as for all three series. And the difference in the cost of materials for an 00 vs. a dread is negligible.

Other businesses can provide more complicated quotes in minutes. There is no reason Larrivee cannot do the same. If, by now, Larrivee does not have all its costs figured out per process, they are in trouble.

Admittedly, I am down on Larrivee because of its lack of response on a customer service issue. I had already decided that I would never purchase a new Larrivee again because the company did not offer enough reason to pay the extra cost for new vs. used. This guitar had me excited and rethinking my decision. But once again, the company's lack of response has me concerned.

Jim
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Queequeg
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« Reply #255 on: November 26, 2009, 02:44:32 PM »

1. The guitar that has been described in this thread is not that difficult to spec out. Larrivee has been making guitars for how long? They are already making guitars in this body size. They are already using the same materials. Specing out this guitar is not a difficult process.

2. It is not a "small order for a handful of entry level product." It is a request from a dealer. Companies that want to thrive in a difficult environment have to take care of their dealers.

Admittedly, I am down on Larrivee because of its lack of response on a customer service issue.

Jim
Jim with all due respect, the guitar has not been described. No one on this forum knows what the specifications are.
1.) 15 guitars is a small order for a company that produces 10s of thousands of guitars each year.
2.) 03 is Larrivee's entry level.
3.) I don't see this as in any way a reflection of Larrivee not taking care of one of their dealers. "Care" is the key operative here. Not "speed".
4.) All of this is unrelated to any customer service issues you may have with the company.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Here, have a donut while you wait. 
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« Reply #256 on: November 26, 2009, 03:08:19 PM »

Just to put this in perspective.

The dealer (Jim Holler of Trinity Guitars) contacts Larrivee Sales, Sales then contacts the factory. It is Thanksgiving and there may be a business reorganization in process. Getting everyone in the chain to make decisions and negotiate (on our behalf I hope) may take a few days.

Give it time.

If I recall, even with ALL the whoopla about the Forum III last year, after the order was placed there were still a couple people who came in after the order was placed and said 'Whats Happening... How come nobody told me, I want one..."
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« Reply #257 on: November 26, 2009, 03:15:17 PM »

1. The guitar that has been described in this thread is not that difficult to spec out. Larrivee has been making guitars for how long? They are already making guitars in this body size. They are already using the same materials. Specing out this guitar is not a difficult process.

2. It is not a "small order for a handful of entry level product." It is a request from a dealer. Companies that want to thrive in a difficult environment have to take care of their dealers.

After being in business this long, Larrivee should be able to generate price quotes quickly. The cost of fretting a neck is the same for every guitar. The labor involved in bending the sides and building the guitar is the same as for all three series. And the difference in the cost of materials for an 00 vs. a dread is negligible.

Other businesses can provide more complicated quotes in minutes. There is no reason Larrivee cannot do the same. If, by now, Larrivee does not have all its costs figured out per process, they are in trouble.

Admittedly, I am down on Larrivee because of its lack of response on a customer service issue. I had already decided that I would never purchase a new Larrivee again because the company did not offer enough reason to pay the extra cost for new vs. used. This guitar had me excited and rethinking my decision. But once again, the company's lack of response has me concerned.

Jim

Seems to me that the only answer would be for you to find another company.  Or maybe with your vast business experience, you could start one.

Ed
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« Reply #258 on: November 26, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »

1. The guitar that has been described in this thread is not that difficult to spec out. Larrivee has been making guitars for how long? They are already making guitars in this body size. They are already using the same materials. Specing out this guitar is not a difficult process.

2. It is not a "small order for a handful of entry level product." It is a request from a dealer. Companies that want to thrive in a difficult environment have to take care of their dealers.

After being in business this long, Larrivee should be able to generate price quotes quickly. The cost of fretting a neck is the same for every guitar. The labor involved in bending the sides and building the guitar is the same as for all three series. And the difference in the cost of materials for an 00 vs. a dread is negligible.

Other businesses can provide more complicated quotes in minutes. There is no reason Larrivee cannot do the same. If, by now, Larrivee does not have all its costs figured out per process, they are in trouble.

Admittedly, I am down on Larrivee because of its lack of response on a customer service issue. I had already decided that I would never purchase a new Larrivee again because the company did not offer enough reason to pay the extra cost for new vs. used. This guitar had me excited and rethinking my decision. But once again, the company's lack of response has me concerned.

Jim


This doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount of time to wait for pricing. Especially around a holiday week. If you can't be patient while waiting for the price, how in the world are you gonna be patient enough to wait for your custom order? Let's all be thankful today for what we got and if possible sneak in some time with guitars we already got. Happy Thanksgiving everyone! 
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« Reply #259 on: November 26, 2009, 03:35:58 PM »

I'd bet my house on it, Jimmy. But that's a beautiful example of the other type. What's that neck on? The Yamaha LL series does stuff like that and a luthier friend here in Dunedin always rips his neck stock down the centre and rotates the pieces (don't know which way) so that any stresses are reversed. My first decent (?) acoustic was a Framus dred that had a laminated neck with as many pieces as that Martin example above, but it was all of the same wood and stained evenly so that it didn't have the construction ply look that Martin has achieved. BTW did you see my post on the ukes made by the luthier mentioned above. I'm pretty sure his ukes would make you  drool, maybe I'll go into the shop and take a pic or two to show you what they look like.  Cheers, Rick

Rick,
Thanks for the nice words, the neck is on my Comins "Classic" Archtop. See below.

Sorry for the semi-hijack everyone. Now, back to our regularly scheduled F-IV discussion involving WHO, WHEN, HOW MUCH, ETC....

Jimmy

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The kids:
Eastman Pagelli PG2 archtop
Kremona Fandango FG630CW
Landau Parlor
Pono 0000-30SP
Ramsay Classical
Neil Gardiner Parlor
Neil Gardiner Concert
Gretsch 6120-1959TV
Darren Hippner Flamenco

and the ukes:
Kanilea K3 Koa Super Concert
Kanilea K1 Tenor Custom (Claro Walnut)
Kanilea K1 Tenor Custom (Koa)
Mainland Tenor
Willie W
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