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Author Topic: Get those humidifiers out of the drawer and into your gits!  (Read 7584 times)
cke
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« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2010, 02:19:52 AM »

Nope just earthquakes  

Geez Mr. Joyce, earthquakes are just an e-ticket ride in L.A.  But the 15% humidity on all these 70 winter days are murder!

And I wouldn't trade for your Nor'easters drool and hurricanes!!
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2010, 05:30:55 PM »

I cleaned the element and fired up the whole house humidifier on my furnace Monday. The humidity had gotten down to 44% so I got the furnace unit going and set it at 50% and all is well again.

Maybe there is an expert on here that can answer this. We have a Vermont Casting vent free gas stove (fireplace) in our living room and when we use it regularly the humidity stays high no matter how cold it gets out.  In fact during mild weather when we don't want to run the furnace the humidity sometimes gets too high and I have to use the dehumidifier in the basement, at thanksgiving I had to run the A/C for awhile to bring it down.  This is not a new phenomenon, I remember all my life that the windows in the kitchen would get very wet during holiday cooking when the oven was on all day. The question is, how does burning natural gas cause humidity to rise? Is there water (on a molecular level) in the gas or gas line? Is it caused by condensation in pipes over long distances from supply to house?  I've always wondered why this is but have never found anyone who could give me an answer.
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cke
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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2010, 07:42:25 PM »


I remember all my life that the windows in the kitchen would get very wet during holiday cooking when the oven was on all day. The question is, how does burning natural gas cause humidity to rise? Is there water (on a molecular level) in the gas or gas line? Is it caused by condensation in pipes over long distances from supply to house?  I've always wondered why this is but have never found anyone who could give me an answer.

The main bi-product of burning natural gas is water and CO2. Maybe that's the explanation?
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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2010, 07:50:50 PM »

But the 15% humidity on all these 70 winter days are murder!


Try 5 percent, every single day of every month of the year except August. 
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2010, 08:38:23 PM »

Nope just earthquakes   

We had a small one this morning.. I need to check to see if my guitars are in tune! 
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« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2010, 04:50:05 AM »

The main bi-product of burning natural gas is water and CO2. Maybe that's the explanation?
  And sometimes plain ole C0  ohmy
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« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2010, 05:25:31 AM »

The main bi-product of burning natural gas is water and CO2. Maybe that's the explanation?

Thanks, I just found that info on the net. Never really thought of looking up "bi-products of burning natural gas".  It does work at keeping the humidity up and is a lot less expensive to run than the furnace.
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« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2010, 05:32:35 AM »

Thanks, I just found that info on the net. Never really thought of looking up "bi-products of burning natural gas".  It does work at keeping the humidity up and is a lot less expensive to run than the furnace.
  Right, BUT... put up a carbon monoxide detector so you don't make yourself ill or even worse. whistling

             I have a C0 detector that can measure down to 1 part per million and it only takes 9 parts per million to make you ill. Above that level you can become unconscious or just die.  Natural gas space heaters are a major cause of illness and death.
                                                Just want to keep my buds around awhile longer.



my detector was over 500 but they are less than 25 for the kind that can alert you to a dangerous level of C0.
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« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2010, 05:46:46 AM »

(CO) is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas, yet very toxic to humans and animals. It consists of one carbon atom and one oxygen atom, connected by a covalent double bond and a dative covalent bond. It is the simplest oxocarbon, and is an anhydride of formic acid.
       Carbon monoxide is produced from the partial oxidation of carbon-containing compounds; it forms when there
is not enough oxygen to produce carbon dioxide (CO2), such as when operating a stove or an internal combustion engine in an enclosed space. Carbon monoxide burns with a blue flame, producing carbon dioxide.[1] Despite its toxicity, coal gas, which was widely used before the 1960s for domestic lighting, cooking and heating, produced carbon monoxide as a byproduct. Some processes in modern technology, such as iron smelting, still produce carbon monoxide as a byproduct.
                          
 And after 35+ years in the business of evaluating furnaces and boilers C0 is more common than most folks realize.
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« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2010, 05:56:25 AM »

  Right, BUT... put up a carbon monoxide detector so you don't make yourself ill or even worse. whistling

             I have a C0 detector that can measure down to 1 part per million and it only takes 9 parts per million to make you ill. Above that level you can become unconscious or just die.  Natural gas space heaters are a major cause of illness and death.
                                                Just want to keep my buds around awhile longer.



my detector was over 500 but they are less than 25 for the kind that can alert you to a dangerous level of C0.

I appreciate your concern, and I do have a C0 detector. I can assure you these stoves are safe, I did a lot of research before we bought one three years ago. If I would have had an outside wall to install against I would have bought a direct vent but this was the next best thing and 99% thermal efficient. It also has  a sensor that will shut it off if co levels get too high or oxygen levels get to low.
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« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2010, 06:02:51 AM »

The design is such that after the stove heats up there is a catalyst action that burns off the C0 kind of like an incinerator. You notice a slight odor when you first turn it on similar to a gas cooking stove but once its been on for awhile there is nothing but heat.  I also maintain it well so it continues to burn efficiently.
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2010, 06:05:32 AM »

I appreciate your concern, and I do have a C0 detector. I can assure you these stoves are safe, I did a lot of research before we bought one three years ago. If I would have had an outside wall to install against I would have bought a direct vent but this was the next best thing and 99% thermal efficient. It also has  a sensor that will shut it off if co levels get too high or oxygen levels get to low.
 That's a relief Roger. I just worry about things I know too much about sometimes. blush

                    Blue flame will burn away C0. A yellow flame is a sure indicator of a C0 problem.
                        Your units have been calibrated correctly. Not all are set up as well.
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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2010, 06:09:51 AM »

btw We had a big ole ''Dearborn" space heater in Michigan and it was a fantastic house warmer.
 I always enjoyed that massive natural gas heater. To this day it is the biggest space heater I have ever seen. And our windows would be covered with ICE... on the inside. (old house)
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« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2010, 02:11:04 PM »

I have my 2 acoustics hanging on my bedroom wall & have a Kenmore room humidifier running but it drives me nuts because its nearly always running with the fan on & never seems to get the room more than about 40RH. Its tough to keep the door closed all day because I have 4 dogs that won't stop scratching at the door till they get in. I keep the house temp at 72*. Is there any kind of soundhole humidifier I could use without it leaking.
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« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2010, 02:32:52 PM »

I have my 2 acoustics hanging on my bedroom wall & have a Kenmore room humidifier running but it drives me nuts because its nearly always running with the fan on & never seems to get the room more than about 40RH. Its tough to keep the door closed all day because I have 4 dogs that won't stop scratching at the door till they get in. I keep the house temp at 72*. Is there any kind of soundhole humidifier I could use without it leaking.

Greg not sure if you saw this topic you might find of interest:

http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=29376.40



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« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2010, 02:43:06 PM »

I have my 2 acoustics hanging on my bedroom wall & have a Kenmore room humidifier running but it drives me nuts because its nearly always running with the fan on & never seems to get the room more than about 40RH. Its tough to keep the door closed all day because I have 4 dogs that won't stop scratching at the door till they get in. I keep the house temp at 72*. Is there any kind of soundhole humidifier I could use without it leaking.
Greg, I posted this on page 2 of this thread and I'm repeating it here in case you didn't see it because it sounds like your situation is similar to my own.
I had to fire up Unit 2 this morning to maintain. According to the manufacturer's literature, each one should be able to handle my condo [1250 sq ft] by themselves, but not when the temperature plummets here in Michigan and stays there for days on end.
Too much for just one unit, but when the second one is activated, neither one works very hard.
Back to 47%RH again.
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« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2010, 02:49:48 PM »

OK, here is my take on this. I would not run any heat source to try to introduce humidity into a home...unless it is to heat water.

RH = Relative humidity; the amount of water vapor in the air compared to the amount of water vapor the air could hold at saturation. For example, when RH = 50%, the air contains half of the water it could hold when it is saturated with water vapor. In most buildings, RH should be maintained between 30% and 60%.

If you simply heat the air without introducing moisture you will dry out the room. The reason you are getting moisture on windows is the dew point changes at the window. The window acts as a condensor due to temperature change, the air molecules slow and shrink when cooled and the space the air molecule can hold reduces as the temperature drops. Thus you get rain...or in this case condensation.

The only way to humidify is adding a moisture source. Or as the thread states Get out the humidifiers.

Hope the science lesson helps bigrin
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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2010, 02:56:38 PM »

Geez Mr. Joyce, earthquakes are just an e-ticket ride in L.A.  But the 15% humidity on all these 70 winter days are murder!

And I wouldn't trade for your Nor'easters drool and hurricanes!!

Yup I'd take the 70 degrees too if I had the choice. Jealousy will get me nowhere I suppose!!!
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« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2010, 07:56:03 PM »

I have my 2 acoustics hanging on my bedroom wall & have a Kenmore room humidifier running but it drives me nuts because its nearly always running with the fan on & never seems to get the room more than about 40RH. Its tough to keep the door closed all day because I have 4 dogs that won't stop scratching at the door till they get in. I keep the house temp at 72*. Is there any kind of soundhole humidifier I could use without it leaking.

Try lowering your temp some, 72 is kind of warm. If you lower it  to 69 your RH will increase.

OK, here is my take on this. I would not run any heat source to try to introduce humidity into a home...unless it is to heat water.

RH = Relative humidity; the amount of water vapor in the air compared to the amount of water vapor the air could hold at saturation. For example, when RH = 50%, the air contains half of the water it could hold when it is saturated with water vapor. In most buildings, RH should be maintained between 30% and 60%.

If you simply heat the air without introducing moisture you will dry out the room. The reason you are getting moisture on windows is the dew point changes at the window. The window acts as a condensor due to temperature change, the air molecules slow and shrink when cooled and the space the air molecule can hold reduces as the temperature drops. Thus you get rain...or in this case condensation.

The only way to humidify is adding a moisture source. Or as the thread states Get out the humidifiers.

Hope the science lesson helps bigrin

If you are speaking to me, I measure my RH with several hygrometers and try to keep it between 45% and 55%. I don't run the fireplace to introduce moisture into the air, it is just my observation that it is happening. As cke stated and which I found with some research, water vapor is a byproduct of burning natural gas.  I was not aware of that , hence the question.

But thanks for the science lesson.     
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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2010, 05:56:52 PM »

Try lowering your temp some, 72 is kind of warm. If you lower it  to 69 your RH will increase.

If you are speaking to me, I measure my RH with several hygrometers and try to keep it between 45% and 55%. I don't run the fireplace to introduce moisture into the air, it is just my observation that it is happening. As cke stated and which I found with some research, water vapor is a byproduct of burning natural gas.  I was not aware of that , hence the question.

But thanks for the science lesson.     
I was really just throwing out the science of relative humidity. In your case the only thing I can think of with your stove is there must be another moisture source in the house around the same time...IE a shower, dishes, clothes drying etc.  By heating the aire you increase the ability to have mointure in the air molecule. Burning natural gas in a sealed combustion unit like a direct vent gas fireplace shouldn't add humidity. The combustion is done in an airtight environment. A gas kitchen range will add humidity to the home, the flame is open combustion.

Sorry for the contrasting opinion...it is an occupational hazard LOL any way you slice it who really cares, the humidity improves which is a bonus.  bigrin
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