Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Bridge design: Pins arrangement  (Read 825 times)
Zohn
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2460




Ignore
« on: November 06, 2009, 07:12:24 AM »

This thread is inspired by another from UncleRob about string ramps.
String ramps are known to improve string pressure on the saddle and hence transmit more string vibration to the sound board. Another way of acieving this, would be to arrange the pins parallel to the saddle as the photo of the Tippin. Logic tells me that this is also a way to prevent cracking between string-pin holes where the grain of the bridge material runs true along the length.
However, the saddle is radiussed  to match the radius of the fingerboard (21" at the sound hole for Larrivee). My logic also dictates that to maintain a uniform pressure for all strings, the pins of the 4 inner strings must be moved progressively back towards the 3rd and 4th string, and hence the pin arrangement on the bridge will then be circular as shown on the Northwood bridge.
The interesting bridge which "considers" all these features, is the Gibby Dove's: The arrangement is parallel to the bridge's edge, but even pressure is maintained by ramping. To prevent cracking-through between holes, a cross-grain blank was selected.
a Design that particularly appeals to me, is Tacoma's "edge-less" bridges.
I would like to hear comments from the forumites on bridge design - do I understand it correct as described above?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged

"To me...music exists to elevate us as far as possible above everyday life." ~ Gabriel Faure
Zohn
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2460




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2009, 07:22:37 AM »

a Few other examples:


[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged

"To me...music exists to elevate us as far as possible above everyday life." ~ Gabriel Faure
jeremy3220
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4598




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 01:06:09 PM »

However, the saddle is radiussed  to match the radius of the fingerboard (21" at the sound hole for Larrivee). My logic also dictates that to maintain a uniform pressure for all strings, the pins of the 4 inner strings must be moved progressively back towards the 3rd and 4th string, and hence the pin arrangement on the bridge will then be circular as shown on the Northwood bridge.

I don't think it matters at all as far as tone is concerned. I think as long as all the strings have a sufficient break angle you aren't going to hear a difference.

Logged

Barefoot Rob
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13989




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 03:06:20 PM »

I gotta agree with  jeremy,though its a neat concept.I find that I have more bridge lifts with the pinless one's.
Logged

A REPAIRPERSON,Still Unclrob
OM03PA
Favorite saying
 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity*Eat The Rich*, Keith and Barefoot Rob on youtube
Still unclrob
#19
12 people ignoring me,so cool
www.rpjguitarworks.com
Call PM me I may b
tadol
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1996




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 04:52:05 PM »

Great collection of bridge pics! I have to admit, the shape and appearance of the bridge has alot of influence over my first impression of a guitar. For example, my initial reaction to Breedloves is not positive, strictly due to the shape of the bridge.

Check out Cornerstone guitars - they use a bridge design with an angled steel pin that goes thru the hole in the strings ball end to hold the string tight to the bridge. The steel pin is anchored in a block under the bridge. Looks good, and allows the paired strings to be placed closer to each other on a 12 string - plus no hole in the top for the string to pass through, but the same kind of break on the saddle. I'll try to find the thread so you can add those pics to your collection -

As far as sound, I find myself wondering why more builders don't use a wider saddle to allow for greater adjustment of intonation? I like the look of a fat 3/16 or maybe 1/4" wide saddle, plus I think they carry more sound to the top - but I have no way of proving it -   

Tad
Logged

Bunch of Larrivees - all good -
and a wife that still puts up with me, which is the best -
Zohn
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2460




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 05:16:48 PM »

As far as sound, I find myself wondering why more builders don't use a wider saddle to allow for greater adjustment of intonation? I like the look of a fat 3/16 or maybe 1/4" wide saddle, plus I think they carry more sound to the top - but I have no way of proving it -   
Tad
Good point Tad - why do some builders resort to compensation at the nut with the nut material hanging over the fretboard, when it surely can be done sufficiently with a wider saddle?
Ovation uses rather wide saddles on some of their models, and Martin thin ones, yet they are well intonated?


[attachment deleted by admin]
Logged

"To me...music exists to elevate us as far as possible above everyday life." ~ Gabriel Faure
jeremy3220
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4598




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 08:52:45 PM »


As far as sound, I find myself wondering why more builders don't use a wider saddle to allow for greater adjustment of intonation? I like the look of a fat 3/16 or maybe 1/4" wide saddle, plus I think they carry more sound to the top - but I have no way of proving it -   


A wider saddle equals less pressure per unit of area yet more mass for the top to move. My guess would be the wider saddle causes more dampening.

Good point Tad - why do some builders resort to compensation at the nut with the nut material hanging over the fretboard, when it surely can be done sufficiently with a wider saddle?

Compensating the nut and compensating the saddle effect the intonation in different ways.


Logged

gitnoob
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 620




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 10:09:28 PM »

I like this design:

Logged

Gits: 2004 P-01K, 2005 OM-03MT
Uke: Kala KA-ASKS with Larrivee Flamed Koa
Chops: fingerstyle noob
Barefoot Rob
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13989




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 10:47:34 PM »

Wider saddle's do not dampen the vibration,I have replaced adjustable saddle's on old Gibson with large piece's of bone and have only enhanced the tone and volumn.
I don't compansate either the nut or saddle and I have never had a problem.
gitnoob I have a client with an Alvarez Yarii 12 string with this same type of bridge,the problem is that the strings cut a notch into the wood that weakens the top.The Alvarez has an ebony block mounted in the top of the guitar and now I have to do a replug of the pin hole's and redrill.So it looks cool but in my eye's destin to fail.
Logged

A REPAIRPERSON,Still Unclrob
OM03PA
Favorite saying
 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity*Eat The Rich*, Keith and Barefoot Rob on youtube
Still unclrob
#19
12 people ignoring me,so cool
www.rpjguitarworks.com
Call PM me I may b
gitnoob
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 620




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2009, 11:06:43 PM »

You're right -- that's similar to Yairi's "direct coupled bridge."   The difference is that the one above is deeply slotted, so there are no bridge pins.

FWIW, I think Yairi may have already addressed the problem you're seeing.    The one I've seen looks like it has some kind of synthetic material where the strings come out of the top -- I assume it's harder than ebony, but I really don't know what it is.
Logged

Gits: 2004 P-01K, 2005 OM-03MT
Uke: Kala KA-ASKS with Larrivee Flamed Koa
Chops: fingerstyle noob
tadol
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1996




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 11:33:47 PM »

That looks like a strip of cocobolo running thru the spruce top - I have to imagine thats gonna have a HUGE effect on the tone!

Tad
Logged

Bunch of Larrivees - all good -
and a wife that still puts up with me, which is the best -
jeremy3220
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4598




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 12:05:57 AM »

I have replaced adjustable saddle's on old Gibson with large piece's of bone and have only enhanced the tone and volumn.


that seems like a very different situation.
Logged

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: