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Author Topic: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?  (Read 2998 times)
obe-wan
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« on: August 05, 2009, 04:12:09 AM »

Gday folks,

Ive been looking around lately as some of you will know for my next guitar, and as usual its come down to a Martin or another Larrivee. (Or maybe a Telecaster wacko)

Ive played quiet a few -15 and -16 martins, a particular 12 string really caught my attention, a J12-16GT. I played it right along side a Larrivee L03-12E, and Ive gotta say it sounded warmer, bigger and deeper than the larry. The larry was nice, it just didnt have the richness. My one concern is this. the neck joint of these is a MT, bolt design. Not as strong as a traditional dovetail joint, which I think could be a concern down the road considering the amount of tension on a 12 string. Ive also heard of -15 needing neck resets after 4-5 years. Anyone got any info they can share?

Theres also a very nice sounding 000-16GT in the shop just 5mins from my house. Im very tempted!

Cheers, Scott.



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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2009, 05:12:22 AM »

I don't believe the MT is a bolt on design.  From what I remember at a Martin clinic, there is a bolt used to hold the neck and body while the MT fit is made.  The bolt is superfulous and usually left in place, or something like that.  Others can chime in about now.

I think the Taylor NT design is better suited for quick fixes.

But I've heard some of the top small builders do not use the traditional dovetail joint.
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 01:27:41 PM »

Martin uses a tenon joint with glue and wood screw's.Taylors uses a nut and bolt system and does not use glue though they do glue down the fingerboard extention to the top.I can remember which company it is but one of the high end makers uses a wood screw thru the tenon joint and allen screws to secure the fingerboard extention.
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Queequeg
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 01:38:16 PM »

I've had my 000-15s for 5 years now and it definitely is not any where near ready for a neck reset.
The wonderful thing about an m-t joint or a bolt-on, is that a  neck reset is far easier [read: less costly] than a dovetail joint.
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Brodie001
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2009, 01:47:24 PM »

CF Martin is not a bunch of dummies.  They know how to make a guitar and how to run a business.  The Martin warranty covers neck resets.  They wouldn't be using the MT design is they were having to de resets every 4-5 years.

I would have no fears about buying a 15 or 16 series Martin b/c of the neck joint.
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2009, 02:02:30 PM »

I don't believe the need for a neck re-set is dependent on the method used to attach the neck.  Rather, it is dependent on the movement of the body and/or top over time.  Structurally, neck attachment does not require a dovetail.  Of course there are those who claim the dovetail is sonically superior.  Several makers of fine instruments rely on various bolt arrangements to attach their necks (Taylor, Collings, Bourgeois, and others) and in some cases use no glue, making a neck reset a minor task.

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Queequeg
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 02:03:02 PM »

Here's a good link with images to the neck reset on a 000-15s.
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Danny
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2009, 02:33:51 PM »

  Thanks for the link Mark. It has a very good description with pictures. I am book marking that one for future reference.
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2009, 03:35:00 PM »

Frank Ford makes a few comments on neck joints here.
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ffinke
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2009, 04:21:30 PM »

Frank Ford makes a few comments on neck joints here.

I've owned a Taylor and now own a Collings and, of course, a Larrivee. After reading Frank's comments I can't believe that ANY shop would still be using a dovetail joint. The instrument, after all, is alive and will move. Stamp out dovetails forever!!!

 

f
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2009, 05:04:28 PM »

Mix it up Scott, go for the Martin if you like the tone better.  Don't give any worry to the neck joint.
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2009, 05:14:00 PM »

Frank Ford is a terrific resource. Many of us visit his site frequently at www.frets.com\Big Index Page
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dave42
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 02:37:18 AM »

My oldest Martin is the one I use to gig with. It's a 1997 D-16TR with w M/T neck. No neck set problems.
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Dave
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obe-wan
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2009, 03:58:46 AM »

Thanks for the info, opinions and links guys. im pretty comfortable as far as the neck joint now. As Bluesman said, if it has good tone, its a good guitar.  +1

Theres gonna be some new pics soon....of something......

Cheers, Scott.
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Martin OM-21. 
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Dr.Z Mini Z.
Eastman 805V Mandolin.

Still no Larrivee.... :-(

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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 05:19:53 AM »

Theres gonna be some new pics soon....of something......


.......It'll be a Martin OM-21. 


Cheers, Scott.
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Martin OM-21. 
Martin 00-18V.
Gibson SG Classic.
Dr.Z Mini Z.
Eastman 805V Mandolin.

Still no Larrivee.... :-(

Upwey, Victoria, Australia.
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 03:18:09 PM »


.......It'll be a Martin OM-21. 


Cheers, Scott.
  Good on ya Scott.  (did I say that right?)
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obe-wan
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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2009, 09:54:09 AM »

  Good on ya Scott.  (did I say that right?)

In perfect Austray-in. 

Thank for the info Danny, I actually ended up finding another one that had better tone. Interestingly the one with the better tone was the one with the plainer wood. The grain isnt as straight or as highly figured. But it definately has 'The Tone". ......did I mention it has tone?


Cheers, Scott.
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Martin OM-21. 
Martin 00-18V.
Gibson SG Classic.
Dr.Z Mini Z.
Eastman 805V Mandolin.

Still no Larrivee.... :-(

Upwey, Victoria, Australia.
Danny
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2009, 12:58:35 PM »

In perfect Austray-in. 

Thank for the info Danny, I actually ended up finding another one that had better tone. Interestingly the one with the better tone was the one with the plainer wood. The grain isnt as straight or as highly figured. But it definately has 'The Tone". ......did I mention it has tone?


Cheers, Scott.
   Gotta have some pics now.
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BluesMan1
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2009, 05:05:10 PM »

   The new owner (soon to be) of my SD-50 lives in PA & apparently has some inside knowledge of Martin neck resets. Said there were so many done that it was baffling, esp. with their strict Q/C dept.. Have seen lots of Martin necks on Ebay, "B" stock ones that Martin sold due to minor cosmetic flaws. Was really surprised to hear that, having the reputation they do. Anyone know about this issue?
     Jeff   
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obe-wan
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 05:51:04 AM »

  Gotta have some pics now.


It'll be a little while Danny. After consulting "The Guide To Keeping The Little Lady Happy" it has been put on Lay-buy.
Family first, the rest for guitars !

Cheers, Scott.
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Martin OM-21. 
Martin 00-18V.
Gibson SG Classic.
Dr.Z Mini Z.
Eastman 805V Mandolin.

Still no Larrivee.... :-(

Upwey, Victoria, Australia.
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