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Author Topic: Minor QA problems: Should I care?  (Read 6721 times)
gitnoob
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2009, 11:52:19 PM »

Thanks.  It is a bit of a disappointment.   I bought the L09 as a potential replacement for my used 10-year-old L05 "beater."    I wanted that "original owner" status, a mint-condition git, and the lifetime warranty.

But my Canadian-built beater has a perfect binding, and I prefer its sound too (probably the mahogany vs rosewood).   The L09 may be going back for a refund.

Interesting factoids: the L09 has a wider nut, wider string spacing at the bridge, and slightly deeper body than my 1998 L05.   But so far I prefer both the sound and playability of the L05.
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2009, 12:42:30 AM »

No company, in any field or industry, is perfect in the QC department.  The difference between the good companies and the bad is how often problems occur (not whether or not they occur), and whether or not they make it right when there is a problem.  Larrivee has a reputation for outstanding quality, and while you personally are only batting .500 with them, this one guitar isn't indicative of their standard of work.  It's a hassle, but I hope it doesn't sour you on the brand.

The dealer you purchased it from should take it back, and then they'll ship it back to Larrivee.  The only question should be who gets stuck with the shipping bill.  Since the guitar is flawed (as opposed to you just not liking it), you should make a strong argument that someone else pay for the shipping.
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2009, 12:22:25 PM »

I cannot believe that this binding job made it out the door.  Not acceptable at all...

jb
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2009, 01:10:42 PM »

The scratch I might live with if the guitar was all that. I wouldn't accept a broken strut. From anyone.
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obe-wan
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2009, 01:38:32 PM »

Hey gitnoob,

Have you contacted the dealer yet, Im very interested to hear what their reply is. You know if they say they never laid eyes on the guitar as it was factory sealed, it really isnt good enough. If they are selling this product they should have inspected it themselves. You're not buying a DVD player here. It should have been taken from the box and checked out for these things before being offered for retail sale.


Cheers, Scott.
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 02:45:27 PM »

I cannot believe that this binding job made it out the door.  Not acceptable at all...
That's why I wanted to run this past you guys -- I really wasn't sure where my expectations should be set for Larrivee.    Other builders seem to have figured out how to put on a binding that's perfectly aligned and free of any gap.

Honestly, they only missed it by a hair.   That gap is small and the misalignment is tiny, but it's one of those things that catches the eye immediately and kind of claws at your mind...
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gitnoob
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2009, 02:50:37 PM »

Have you contacted the dealer yet, Im very interested to hear what their reply is. You know if they say they never laid eyes on the guitar as it was factory sealed, it really isnt good enough. If they are selling this product they should have inspected it themselves. You're not buying a DVD player here. It should have been taken from the box and checked out for these things before being offered for retail sale.

Hi, Scott.  I contacted them yesterday, and the friendly customer service rep gave me two choices:

1) Request an exchange
2) Or send pictures of the cosmetic bugs to his manager for compensation or other action

Since this was the last one they had in stock of this particular model, I decided to go for option (2) and see where it leads.    But I missed the manager by a few minutes -- he should get back to me today.

The smaller dealers add value by inspecting their gits, doing a setup, and providing excellent after-sales support.    The big chains have a different model.   They compete on price and give you a generous inspection period, but they generally don't touch the products they ship via mail order / internet orders.    Sometimes they even drop-ship direct from the makers.
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« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2009, 04:25:27 PM »

Believe it or not, my PV-09E has a binding problem like that. I kind of bothers me, but I mostly ignore. In addition, the finish on the back had a huge problem. There were divots in the gloss finish. Rather than send it to Larrivee, I just had my local luthier deal with it. He did an amazing job...can't even tell that it was like that now.
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gitnoob
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2009, 06:36:35 PM »

First contact from the CS manager:

He's going to check for additional store inventory.   It probably won't be factory sealed.   If he finds one, he'll send pics and we can arrange for an exchange.

No offer of cash compensation.   I did get a good deal from them, and I wasn't expecting them to do much in dollar terms.   But I don't consider it such a good deal for what is basically a factory second.

Another option might be to handle this as a warranty claim.   My understanding from Larrivee's website is that I should first take it to any authorized dealer.   I actually do have one pretty close to me, but I'm sure he won't be thrilled to know I bought a Larrivee elsewhere.

Anyway, my impression is that a luthier could easily address the brace splinter with a bit of glue, might be able to buff out the scratch since there's no finish on the ebony or binding (right?), and that would just leave the back binding problem....
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« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2009, 07:02:04 PM »

I wouldn't have this fixed, I get another one. If you go the warranty route it will get shipped to Larrivee and probably take months to get fixed. The binding has finish over it. The scratch can be sanded out but like any other scratch that means removing material till it's all level. So it depends on how deep the scratch is if it should be sanded out or not.
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« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2009, 07:53:09 PM »

what Jeremy said 

a new car that's been wrecked and repaired is not worth one that's never been wrecked.

- Larry
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« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2009, 08:02:34 PM »

The scratch is not deep.   In the picture, it looks like a hair on the fretboard, and that's probably overstating it.

Going with the car analogy, I basically bought a new BMW at a VW price.   On closer inspection, it has a small scratch on the driver's-side door, a tear in the sun visor, and the bumper is a little crooked.

So, do I take it to the dealer to touch-up the scratch, patch the tear, and drive home with a crooked bumper?    Or do I return the car?   Or exchange it for a different car?

The dealer got back to me.   No more factory-sealed gits available, and all the showroom models have been claimed.   Mine is the last of the lot.

He gave me the direct number for Larrivee support, and I must say that was a disappointing call.   They're down to a skeleton crew, so I'm waiting for my email to them to get circulated to somebody who might know what to do someday.

At this point, I'm leaning towards returning the L09 and sticking with my comfortable old L05.    The L09 could have been a great deal, a great git, and a great experience, but it's already tainted.

It'll probably end up going back to Larrivee after I send it back to the dealer.    All because of a lack of attention to detail at both build time and post-sale service.
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« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2009, 08:42:32 PM »

gitnoog:

I regularly buff the fretboard with 000 steel wool to clean the frets and remove any build-up on the fretboard, then use Fast Fret to treat the wood.  This process may remove the scratch completely.  (Some folks don't care for Fast Fret or similar treatments.  To each his own.)

I'd continue with both avenues (dealer and factory), weigh your options and decide what is the best for your piece of mind.

IMHO, knowing only what I've read so far, I'd be inclined to (1) fix the scratch myself, (2) get the brace repaired at a reputable luthier and try to get the dealer or the factory to cover the cost, and (3) live with the binding.  But that's just me.

Good luck...
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« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2009, 09:24:24 PM »


Going with the car analogy, I basically bought a new BMW at a VW price.   On closer inspection, it has a small scratch on the driver's-side door, a tear in the sun visor, and the bumper is a little crooked.

So, do I take it to the dealer to touch-up the scratch, patch the tear, and drive home with a crooked bumper?    Or do I return the car?   Or exchange it for a different car?

It may have been cheap but that doesn't mean you got a great deal. A cracked brace is going to hurt the value. L-09's are easy to come by and there has to be a pretty big incentive(price difference) for someone to buy your L-09 with the defects instead of any other L-09 out there. It's up to you whether it's worth the price you paid.

 To me the brace being cracked is a big issue for one of two reasons. 1) If the missing part of the bracing doesn't matter structurally or tonally then it doesn't need to be there in the first place. 2) If it doesn't need to be there in the first place then it's a poor design. Of course there is a good deal of subjectivity in applying those two concepts but you get the idea.
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« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2009, 09:53:08 PM »

Send it back.Discount or not you were sold a new guitar that was suppose to be a special edition,its damaged.No matter were the blame lays for letting get out to the public its still damaged.Please just return it for a refund.Paying someone to fix a new guitar is just wrong.





I'm skipping back to my cave now.
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« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2009, 10:21:49 PM »

To complicate matters, my new guitar teacher just came by.   I had him play both the L05 and L09 and give me his opinion.   He liked the L09 better -- said it was more balanced.

As a noob, I'm trying to grow into my Larrivee(s).    I was originally inclined to just view the L09 as a player's git and ignore the resale value.   As long as I plan to keep it forever and add my own dings to it, I'd have no qualms about that approach.

The collectibility aspect was never a big deal to me, and as long as I can sell it if I ever need to without taking a huge depreciation hit, then I'd be a happy guy.

I'm going to sleep on it.     
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« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2009, 11:30:03 PM »

Gitnoob--

Wait to hear directly from Larrivee before you make a decision.  You had said that it didn't sound as nice to your ear as your L05.  Perhaps you prefer the sound of mahogany to rowewood.  Keep in mind that the 09 will improve in time as it opens up.  How does it feel in your hands after using it for a good while; because of it's different fingerboard width it may be more or maybe less comfortable than the 05.  Either way, and at the very least should you choose to hold on to it, the brace should be replaced, and not at your cost.  Like Unclrob, I'll be skipping back to my own cave now.  Hang in there buddy.

            DAVE
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« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2009, 02:23:15 AM »

To complicate matters, my new guitar teacher just came by.   I had him play both the L05 and L09 and give me his opinion.   He liked the L09 better -- said it was more balanced.

As a noob, I'm trying to grow into my Larrivee(s).    I was originally inclined to just view the L09 as a player's git and ignore the resale value.   As long as I plan to keep it forever and add my own dings to it, I'd have no qualms about that approach.

The collectibility aspect was never a big deal to me, and as long as I can sell it if I ever need to without taking a huge depreciation hit, then I'd be a happy guy.

I'm going to sleep on it.     
   I would keep it, if it was really the one I wanted and no others were available. The scratch is nothing to fix, the strut needs some attention, but you can get some help from Larrivee. I would think they may send you to a local tech.  But maybe not, I have had very good dealings with Larrivee on warranty issues though.
                I'll also add this, though in your case these items are quite recognizable. I have never bought a new guitar that was "perfect" So when I get a good deal I take a flaw in stride.                   
                         It's your call though, do what you really feel is best.
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« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2009, 03:55:26 AM »

To put it plain and simple.....'It's a DUD'
cheers
fongie
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« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2009, 03:57:02 AM »

To put it plain and simple.....'It's a DUD'
cheers
fongie
  Yea, but with a lil TLC and an 'E' it could be a DUDE ;-)
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