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Author Topic: 12 String Modifications  (Read 609 times)
ncognito
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« on: June 14, 2009, 11:46:45 AM »

I have a nice Taylor Spruce/EIR 12 string which I like quite a bit, but after having read what Michael T had done to his Larrivee 12 (reversed the order in each of the pairs so that the bass E pairing is Reular E: #12 & Octave E: #11 and so on with the remaining courses, except that strings 1 & 2; and 3 &4 are identical [twinned] which is typical; he also had the saddle and nut custom carved from bone to reflect the changes in string order and changes in string diameter.  He also experimented with different materials for bridge pins)  I admire Michaels's willingness to try this rather drastic alteration formula; he has told me that he is very pleased with the outcome.  I am happy with the standard order of the pairings, but the octave G always sounded wimpy to my ears, and the overall tone was was a bit harsh and difficult to govern in subtle ways.  So, I had a highly reccomended luthier switch the octave G to regular G (twinning the G's, a term I learned over at the UMGF) modifying the nut slot; he also switched the saddle from Tusque to bone.  The guitar is so much easier to control as far as tone and volume nuances go; the tone change with the bone is dramatically improved; the tone is bold yet soothing.  I love it.  One day I hope to sample a Larrivee 12 possibly mahogany with spruce top which I'm sure would sound great, but for now I'm really enjoying my newly modified Taylor 455ceL7.  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! 

        DAVE    
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 01:28:14 PM »

Dave:

I did the same thing Michael T did with my Larrivee 12 string and was pleased with the result. I keep mine tuned down one whole step. I believe Leo Kottke (and possibly Pete Seeger) tune down two whole steps. I may have to "Twin the Gs" as you did. Sounds logical. Thanks for the tip.

P.S. You ought to play and hear the L-09 Quilted Maple Larrivee that Jim Holler has at Trinity. It's been there a long time but I think it's more of a fear of the unknown for those who can't play it. I would love to buy it but I am on a buying hiatus until next spring and I can't buy everything I like.
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TEH

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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 01:54:48 PM »

Dave:

I did the same thing Michael T did with my Larrivee 12 string and was pleased with the result. I keep mine tuned down one whole step. I believe Leo Kottke (and possibly Pete Seeger) tune down two whole steps. I may have to "Twin the Gs" as you did. Sounds logical. Thanks for the tip.

P.S. You ought to play and hear the L-09 Quilted Maple Larrivee that Jim Holler has at Trinity. It's been there a long time but I think it's more of a fear of the unknown for those who can't play it. I would love to buy it but I am on a buying hiatus until next spring and I can't buy everything I like.


TEH--

Have you tried the L-09 12QM at Trinity?  I'll bet it's a wonderful instrument, but I'm kind of partial to cutaways.  Also, I'm happy with the guitars that I have right now, and am financially unable to add a new guitar.  I'm not complaining.  There's always..."someday".

       DAVE
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 03:49:24 PM »

I've done the Rickenbacker set on my 12 strings,this puts the octive on the inside.I've also used a slightly smaller wound octive G.Both with wounderful results.Since I play with my fingers I've also set it up with just the lower strings E A D set up reversed and leaving the G string strung with the octive on top.

Comment on The L09/12 maple I've had the chance to play a sim. modal and can tell you they sound great.
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 04:44:30 PM »

 

Unclrob--

That's great that you have your own unique set-up with the Half Ric/Half Reg Formula.  Whatever works is the way to go.

       DAVE
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 07:58:35 PM »

Dave its one of the benifits of being a repairperson I can make a new nut anytime I want.











I mean for the guitar for those with there minds in the gutter or maybe even my head.
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 09:18:38 PM »

Just a minor correction guys, I had Jim design and carve the saddle and nut to raise the octave course and lower the standard course to be level on the top of the string run. No "pick hole" and outstanding balance. We didn't reverse the runs ala Rickenbacker. The twining of the G sounds like it would take a little away from the upper register (where angels sing, ya know) but I bet it would add some power for sure.
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2009, 10:48:06 PM »

Dave:

I did play the L-09QM 12 string and will be going back over in a couple of weeks to try it out again if it's still there. It's a good price but not in the cards right now. It's been a few weeks since I played it but in my opinion, it is one of the nicest and most unique guitars to come through the door at Trinity. As I stated, I believe people are gun shy about 12 strings.

When the discussion surfaced on another thread I was considering participating in a Forum IV but my suggestion of a jumbo maple 6 string or a 12 string jumbo or L body with maple back and sides never gained any traction. After watching Rev. Gary Davis on video and seeing Ernie Hawkins both on video and up close in concerts/workshops, I am convinced that a big jumbo guitar with maple back and sides is in my future but I don't want to lay out the bucks for a Gibson J-200 ($5,000 list price for a new one). Ordering a Mahogany topped 12 string with venetian cutaway was a voyage into the unknown but it paid off big time for me. I want to do the same thing with a Quilted or Flamed Maple 03 series 12 string. Jim told me if I want a maple 12 string, I would probably need to go to the 09 Series but we can check it out again and get a ball park figure the next time I am over to Trinity. Just imagine these two guitars sitting side by side on a couple of stands:

LV-03 12 String with mahogany back and sides, mahogany top
LV-03 12 string with maple back and sides, spruce top 









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Larrivee Parlor Flamed Maple
Larrivee LV-03 12 string w/ Mahogany Top 
Martin D-35 Shade Top
Martin OM-35 Sunburst
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Martin Backpacker w/Nashville tuning
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 05:04:00 PM »

To me, the G/octave G course is one of the defining sounds of the 12-string guitar. It's why Martin built a seven string guitar for Roger McGuinn. It's basically a six string guitar except for the addition of the octave G. He claims that he gets all the 12-string sound that he needs with the ease of playing a six-string.
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