Guitars as an investment

[bearsville0]

Another thumbs up for DaveyO!

[bluesman67]

 

[gtrplayer]

 I recently sold my Martin D-35, bought new in 1978, for three times what I payed for it.  Ain't no doubt about it, Martins hold their value.  They're a quality guitar and couple that with a 175 year tradition, customer loyalty or whatever and you have a good investment.  Plus I got to enjoy it all those years.  And with original owner warranty the neck was re-set for free by Martin prior to selling it.
  That being said, I would never buy a guitar as an investment however you can minimize losses by buying reputable brands that enjoy higher resale.   
  Larrivee builds quality guitars but it has no where near Martins 'perceived' reputation, tradition, customer loyalty, yadda yadda, which all translates into higher resale value.

gtrplayer

[fongie]

True, true, gtrplayer, but I still believe Martins are a little over rated for the price you pay. Don't get me wrong, they are excellent, and the resale value is awesome, my brothers got a D28, but my Lav's are right up there in comparison, if not better. OK you mightn't get the glitters and the other things that comes with buying a martin, but I'm not paying thousands either. One thing I do find with Larrivee, they tend to flood the market, for some unknown reason. Thats probably the reason for it's fall in price in the US, but here in Australia, larrivee is unheard of and people are starting to sit up and take noticed, so selling a Lav is good. If you can swing a deal with USPS or some other courier for cheaper postage, I'm sure the price of lav's will sky rocket. If you ask 90% of Aussies if they know a Larrivee guitar, they'll say 'NO', if you ask martins you get a 100% 'YES'. 100% of my friends and most a professional musicians, have never heard of larrivee, yet when they play my lav's, they all want one. For one, because they sound great, two because of the price, three because of the wood and four because of the looks. But you are right with martins holding their value.
cheers
fongie

[gtrplayer]

True, true, gtrplayer, but I still believe Martins are a little over rated for the price you pay.

I agree fongie.  Martins are over-priced compared to larrivees.  That's why I own 5 Larrivees and no Martins.

[carruth]

I totally agree with Dave.I also earn money with my guitars so I get a return on my investments.This weekend we play for the diggers at an RSL Club on ANZAC day.Fongie and the other Aussies will know what the hell I'm talking about.

[fongie]

Awesome! gtrplayer. Yes Carruth, we sure do. I'm glad to hear your playin', whats the name of your band? Are you using your Lav?
cheers
fongie

[Dale_I]

I will second the "perceived value" comment gtrplayer makes. Collecting, investing, or making money on instruments (or anything of value) is NOT about the particular item and whether it is comparatively better than another item. It is what is perceived as valueable regardless of factual reality. Another reason I would say that investing should be considered totally separate from personal purchases.

[carruth]

Fongie,the band is the Frank.E.Evans Band.We play mainly Swing Jazz from the 1920,s and1930,s.Have a look on youtube if you are interested.My major musical interest are my own compositions in mainly fingertstyle guitar.Write to me at carruth@neum.co.nz and I will send you a complimentary CD .

[Dale_I]

What about the rest of us 

[fongie]

Thanyou Carruth, I will do that, thanks
cheers
fongie

[carruth]

I will give away 5 CDs.First in first served.

[Dale_I]

See messages....

FWIW - Both my mom and dad play in 17 piece big bands playing music from the similar decades, as well as some newer stuff. My moms band was actually invited to play at the New York Philharmonic last year.

[Safricanplayer]

It's probably safe to say that most larger manufacturer guitars bought new will not end up being investments from the standpoint of financial appreciation. 

An interesting potential investment opportunity is to find a luthier relatively early in his or her career, before their instruments have gained notoriety. The base price of my Mcknight has gone up $1500 since I purchased it just over 2 years ago, and the upcharge for the wood combination on mine has also increased over $500, so it would cost me at least $2000 more today to re-order my Mcknight. I came across an old Eichelbaum website from early 2000 when his base price was in the mid $3k's. Today it's $8K. The list goes on, Olson, Wingert etc.

The scarcity and declining supply of Brazilian might also ultimately add to the investment potential of an instrument, but typically more so in the case of a vintage instrument, ie: 1930's Martin, or a smaller boutique builder. Ultimately it will probably come down to supply and demand, so it's extremely unlikely that buying a new Martin, Taylor or Larrivee today will turn into an investment. The Forum III ~ Maybe

~ Ray ~ 

[fongie]

It's probably safe to say that most larger manufacturer guitars bought new will not end up being investments from the standpoint of financial appreciation. 

An interesting potential investment opportunity is to find a luthier relatively early in his or her career, before their instruments have gained notoriety. The base price of my Mcknight has gone up $1500 since I purchased it just over 2 years ago, and the upcharge for the wood combination on mine has also increased over $500, so it would cost me at least $2000 more today to re-order my Mcknight. I came across an old Eichelbaum website from early 2000 when his base price was in the mid $3k's. Today it's $8K. The list goes on, Olson, Wingert etc.

The scarcity and declining supply of Brazilian might also ultimately add to the investment potential of an instrument, but typically more so in the case of a vintage instrument, ie: 1930's Martin, or a smaller boutique builder. Ultimately it will probably come down to supply and demand, so it's extremely unlikely that buying a new Martin, Taylor or Larrivee today will turn into an investment. The Forum III ~ Maybe

~ Ray ~ 

True true Ray, yes you are so right. I bought a Osca Schmidt Parlour Koa and didn't know at the time, niether did the seller $500 AUD, and found out they are selling for over $2K US. What about my C-09 (the old one), C-05Hog, L-01, L-04? They don't make them any more, surely they must be class as collectables, wouldn't they? And they were built in Canada.
cheers
fongie

[BluesMan1]

   Keep an eye on mahogany body guitars. Good HOG is becoming scarcer & more appreciated as a superior tonewood. Thus, the reason all of the other woods are suddenly popping up. I played 2 Flammang guitars made of mesquite that David had bought @ a NAMM show. Built 2, played them (they were already sold) & was just @ a loss for words. Hard to believe, I know. They rang like a harp or a bell. Unreal. Asked him to make me one with the 3rd & last set of mesquite he had, but that fell through to too many knots in the wood (he's very picky). My loss. Mesquite? Never would have thought of it. My point being that there are many alternative tonewoods being used now. Good HOG is becoming scares & is now being protected, much like Brazilian was in the late '60's. More builders are finally appreciating the sound of HOG, kinda like Martin did in the prewar days, but that was mainly to make the instrument affordable. Looks @ the prices of those gits. Can't touch 'em!
     Jeff

[carruth]

Dale I .Thankyou for your email.Send me your address and I will send a CD.Cheers Carruth.

[Safricanplayer]

True true Ray, yes you are so right. I bought a Osca Schmidt Parlour Koa and didn't know at the time, niether did the seller $500 AUD, and found out they are selling for over $2K US. What about my C-09 (the old one), C-05Hog, L-01, L-04? They don't make them any more, surely they must be class as collectables, wouldn't they? And they were built in Canada.
cheers
fongie

Wat up Fongie?

I think the Larri's you mention would probably command a higher premium, but it will probably depend on how many where produced of the models you have. Often age or exclusivity are the driving factors behind price appreciation. All my higher end guitars were acquired because I fell in love with what they sounded like So if they appreciate in value, that's simply a bonus

~ Ray ~ 

[fongie]

True, true Ray.
cheers
fongie

[jwb]

My point being that there are many alternative tonewoods being used now.

You are right on Bluesman1.  My sycamore SCGC is the best sounding guitar I have ever played, and it's made from a domestic (USA) timber.  Mesquite?  I've never heard of that  being used in lutherie, but if it sounded that good I would buy it.  Tone is everything.

It's probably safe to say that most larger manufacturer guitars bought new will not end up being investments from the standpoint of financial appreciation. 

On this point I would have to humbly disagree.  Look at Gibson, Fender, Martin...once they become vintage, and fewer and fewer exist, they suddenly become worth fortunes.  The larger manufacturers of the past, with notable brand recognition, have proven to be the real investment guitars.  I agree that getting in with a custom builder before they are well known is a good way to pocket a profit in the short term, but in the long-term, say 20 years out, the current boutique manufacturers unique instruments and uncommon ones from the true mass production factories (including Larrivee - be gentle guys) will be where significant appreciation occurs IMO.  Of course you could buy a $30,000 guitar now (e.g. Fox Ergo) that may be worth $100,000 in 20 years, but you could also buy one from a Boutique maker (Bourgeois, SCGC, Froggy, etc) for a few grand that may worth $30,000....proportionately, the factory built one is a better investment.  I think the answer lies somewhere between the individual builder and the mass produced ones.  And to Bluesman1's observation, there are many great woods out there, but the classic woods will be a memory soon.  Once the supply is gone of the classic woods, the guitars made from those woods will  appreciate.  It's simple supply and demand economics.  Sorry I'm ranting but I'm fascinated by economics and pricing...cheers everybody!  Justin