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Author Topic: Forum III impressions and discussion  (Read 119363 times)
jeremy3220
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« Reply #940 on: June 05, 2009, 01:41:01 PM »

Very interesting - are you using "mode" interchangeably with "note" here? Is it a particular note/mode on all guitars? And the second harmonic would be an octave plus a perfect 5th above then?

Mike

Not exactly, the modes always occur at a frequency but they also refer to the type of vibration- as is the case with long dipole mode, cross dipole mode, and monopole mode. The second harmonic is just double the frequency.
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Danny
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« Reply #941 on: June 05, 2009, 01:55:45 PM »

Very interesting - are you using "mode" interchangeably with "note" here? Is it a particular note/mode on all guitars? And the second harmonic would be an octave plus a perfect 5th above then?

Mike
  Mike I am sending you a PM
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #942 on: June 05, 2009, 02:06:25 PM »

  Mike I am sending you a PM

I didn't know resonant modes was such a secretive topic.
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BenF
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« Reply #943 on: June 05, 2009, 02:09:28 PM »

I didn't know resonant modes was such a secretive topic.

Danny is being very decent here.  He appreciates that 2367 members' brains just exploded, and wanted to spare as many souls as he could.
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Ben
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #944 on: June 05, 2009, 02:14:39 PM »

Danny is being very decent here.  He appreciates that 2367 members' brains just exploded, and wanted to spare as many souls as he could.

Then why is it a personal message? And why does he appreciate that thousands of people's brains exploded?

You guys scare me sometimes.
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Danny
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« Reply #945 on: June 05, 2009, 02:15:20 PM »

I didn't know resonant modes was such a secretive topic.
 
                   It was about his F-III, but not this subject.

Danny is being very decent here.  He appreciates that 2367 members' brains just exploded, and wanted to spare as many souls as he could.
                   Good stuff Ben. Heh, what is the name of those Shortbread cookies that make "Walkers" look like garbage? I would sure like to find some.
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BenF
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« Reply #946 on: June 05, 2009, 02:16:36 PM »

I was trying desperately to be funny, since the resonant modes discussion had utterly baffled me and fried my brain, sorry my humour is pathetic.
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Ben
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« Reply #947 on: June 05, 2009, 02:17:46 PM »

what is the name of those Shortbread cookies that make "Walkers" look like garbage? I would sure like to find some.

Deans - I believe they may deliver internationally.  Google 'Deans of Huntly'
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Ben
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« Reply #948 on: June 05, 2009, 02:18:18 PM »

I was trying desperately to be funny, since the resonant modes discussion had utterly baffled me and fried my brain, sorry my humour is pathetic.
               No it's not!!!  Don't buy that introspective junk.
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Yoyodyne
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« Reply #949 on: June 05, 2009, 02:51:04 PM »

Perhaps this will be of use:

Resonance frequency-
All materials have a fundamental resonance frequency, which can be defined as the frequency at which the material transmits the maximum amount of energy imparted to it. Think of a bell; tap it and the frequency at which it rings is its resonance frequency.

Q-
Q is the ratio of transmitted energy to dissipated energy. A crystal glass has a high Q, because most of the energy imparted to the crystal (for example, by tapping it) is converted to acoustic energy (the sound of the crystal ringing). Very little energy is dissipated within the crystal material, it is mostly passed on as acoustic energy (sound).

By contrast, a material like clay has an extremely low Q. Strike a block of clay and the material easily deforms, and thus dissipates the energy of the strike within the clay material (as heat; vigorously knead some clay and you'll feel it get warm). There is obviously very little sound arising from the strike, that's why clay-like materials are so popular for sound deadening.

Phase-
When the top of a guitar vibrates, not all areas of the top are moving in the same direction at the same time. When some areas are moving outward (away from the guitar's back) others are moving back (towards the guitar back). One full cycle of a sound waveform can be described as encompassing 360 degrees of movement. Visualize a circle. At the far left of the circle's equator represents 0, when the guitar top is silent. Move clockwise 90 degrees and you have the maximum positive amplitude (when the top is moving the farthest distance outward), then go another another 90 degrees clockwise and the top has returned to a neutral position. But the top continues to move, now towards the back of the guitar, with another 90 degree move around that circle representing the maximum negative amplitude (when the top is moving the farthest distance inward). And finally go another 90 degrees clockwise and the guitar has returned to its original starting point.

It's important to understand this concept, because all areas on the top of the guitar are definitely NOT all moving together in unison. Some parts are moving outwards while others are moving inwards. Thus the different areas of the top are out of phase with each other, with the result that some frequencies are reinforced (when different areas are moving together in the same direction) while others frequencies are being cancelled (when some areas of the top are moving forward and others are moving backward, any frequencies common to those those out-of-phase areas will be cancelled).

These considerations help explain why the shape of a guitar's top and the number, location and stiffness of its braces are so important. All play key roles in determining the resonance frequencies of the various areas of the top, and the ways in which those areas of the top (and the rest of the guitar body!) interact. And we haven't even discussed the size, shape and location of the soundhole, not to mention the bridge and neck...

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tadol
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« Reply #950 on: June 05, 2009, 03:16:27 PM »

Good Stuff! Ok, now I'm ready for modes -


Tad
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« Reply #951 on: June 05, 2009, 03:23:15 PM »

Yoyodyne,

Where were you when I was taking physics in high school?  Seriously, I've been a teacher for nearly 20 years (granted, in literature rather than physics) and I appreciate the clarity and brevity of your explanation.  Thanks!
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Yoyodyne
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« Reply #952 on: June 05, 2009, 05:43:30 PM »

Glad to help!
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pennerblue
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« Reply #953 on: June 05, 2009, 06:00:30 PM »

Glad to help!

You did indeed. Thanks.  I need/want to learn more of this stuff.
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“Your lack of technique can be part of your style. The thing about style is that it’s more entertaining, more important and hopefully more intellectual than technique.”
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« Reply #954 on: June 05, 2009, 07:24:44 PM »

I didn't know resonant modes was such a secretive topic.

Turns out they aren't.

Thanks for the clarification re harmonics. I always thought the first harmonic was the first above the actual note being produced.

Mike
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BenF
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« Reply #955 on: June 05, 2009, 08:20:58 PM »

Slightly changing the subject, but I am spending some quality time with my Larrivees tonight!  I expected to find this forum-III to be a great all round guitar, but favouring strumming, an my OM-03 to be prodominantly a picker.  Since ordering the forum III I have experienced about 14 of those breakthrough moments of learning, and having sold my D-09 to fund the forum-III I really began to bond with my OM-03.  It turns out that with a new bone saddle and some minor tweaks, the OM has turned out to be, and continues to develop into a beatuiful gentle strummer, and the forum III just excells for fingerstyle.

I am slightly confsed that this has ended up the other way around from my expectations, but what the hey!

I have been working on some fingerstyle songs, and am really beginning to get the wow factor from my forum-III.  Apart from the minir intonation issues, I think all my early questions about this guitar were based on wrong expectations.

Strange how these things turn out.

I suppose the LSV-11 is the fingerstyle speciality guitar in the line up, and it is RW/Spruce.  Maybe I was just plain wrong in the first place to expect a great stummer.

either way, I have the two guitars I really really really wanted, just in different colours, lol!

Full marks for the forum-III for just being a downright fantastic guitar.

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Ben
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Yoyodyne
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« Reply #956 on: June 05, 2009, 08:22:31 PM »

Lots of interesting info here:

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/guitaracoustics/modes.html

Speaking of harmonics, even-order (double, quadruple, etc. the frequency of the fundamental note) distortion is the reason why tube guitars amps sound so sweet and fat. Tube amps predominantly generate even-order distortion, which is pleasing (euphonic) to the human ear. Transistor amps generate odd-order harmonic distortion (three times, five times, etc. the frequency of the fundamental note), which is harsh-sounding and unpleasant to the human ear/brain.
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lyric_girl
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« Reply #957 on: June 05, 2009, 11:08:25 PM »

Danny is being very decent here.  He appreciates that 2367 members' brains just exploded, and wanted to spare as many souls as he could.

Exactly how I was feeling! 
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pennerblue
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« Reply #958 on: June 06, 2009, 03:06:11 AM »


I am slightly confsed that this has ended up the other way around from my expectations, but what the hey!


Different strokes for different folks (or perhaps, different strums for different chums).
It's awesome that you have "landed" with two guitars that meet your needs.
Congrats.
We too, are reaping the benefits...via your soundclips.

Penner
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Three Larries and a Guild and an A&L...and electrics...and a mando

“Your lack of technique can be part of your style. The thing about style is that it’s more entertaining, more important and hopefully more intellectual than technique.”
Kim Thayil (Soundgarden)

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« Reply #959 on: June 06, 2009, 03:28:50 AM »

    Regarding strumming and fingerstyle on the F-III.
              I have been very impressed with mine being a very good strummer. All I need is a slightly taller saddle and it is just taking all I want to give it. Then I use a lower saddle for most of my playing, which is without a pick and it sounds fantastic in that style.
               Of course I need to switch saddles sometimes. But I also enjoy a few other gits for strumming so I leave the lower saddle in most of the time.

                I did play a Larrivee OMV-03E that really impressed me a few weeks ago, not enough to buy it though.
  But if I could find a 4'' depth OM MT used I would be hard pressed not to scoop it up. I really want a slot head but that limits you to a 00 or a SD with my shoulder issues. Unless someone knows of a slot head in an OM or smaller size.
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