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Author Topic: Forum III impressions and discussion  (Read 119836 times)
rpm60912
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« Reply #100 on: March 28, 2009, 06:00:43 AM »


No kidding. Must...stay...busy.

And resolve the question: to pickguard or not. It will be clear or nothing, that much is for sure.

Mike

If I had my way, I'd fly to Vancouver, go with you to the Factory on Tuesday.

You pick up your all-hog FGIII, we oooohhh and aaaaahhhh together; then you help me pick which IS/hog to get.

I don't care whether it's numbered or not.  The Forum Guitar III is the bomb!
(translation: it sounds fantastic - everyone who hears it is wowed by how good it sounds).

We both come out of the Factory with our new gits: your first, my second.  Head over to your place. Jam. Is there any left in the fridge?
Order food - let's do Greek this time! Jam, jam, jam, jam...

A second FG III?  Okay... wake up ricky, wake up, wake up!

End of daydream,

ricky...

Enjoy your git Mike!  (If you know you're the only one playing this git and you are pretty disciplined with strumming, then you don't need a PG; Who knows, John might even throw in a bone saddle - sorry, I'm not finished daydreaming  ).
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vates
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« Reply #101 on: March 28, 2009, 08:08:43 AM »

subscribed.

still waiting though  afro
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« Reply #102 on: March 28, 2009, 08:31:14 AM »

If I had my way, I'd fly to Vancouver, go with you to the Factory on Tuesday.

We both come out of the Factory with our new gits: your first, my second.  Head over to your place. Jam. Is there any left in the fridge?
Order food - let's do Greek this time! Jam, jam, jam, jam...

ricky...

Enjoy your git Mike!  (If you know you're the only one playing this git and you are pretty disciplined with strumming, then you don't need a PG; Who knows, John might even throw in a bone saddle - sorry, I'm not finished daydreaming  ).

Being a lefty, it's not often that I get a chance to share - that was one of the intangible yet very tangible benefits of being part of this project which will hopefully be repeated soon.

Yes, there's still beer in the fridge, despite my best attempts, etc. The Szechuan is, thankfully, long gone, or we'd need to have an ambulance standing by.

See you Tuesday.  ohmy

Mike
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lyric_girl
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« Reply #103 on: March 28, 2009, 12:25:12 PM »

Ricky, hate to break it to you, but Beth said NO!
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Safricanplayer
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« Reply #104 on: March 28, 2009, 05:43:43 PM »

Jordon,

That's a great looking all Hog. I'm really excited to get mine. I ordered an IS/RW for my daughter, so it's going to be REALLY interesting to A/B both guitars

 Enjoy....

    ~ Ray ~
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Eichelbaum OM ~ Euro Spruce / Brazilian Rosewood
Martin 000-18 Norman Blake
Larrivee Forum III ~ All Hog
kinnez
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« Reply #105 on: March 28, 2009, 06:06:48 PM »

Just got on board with a surplus Forum III and couldn't be happier. javascript:void(0); A question to some of you in the know about the woods.  I've searched the threads and didn't really find the information.

What is the difference in Italian Spruce and the Stika Spruce? and there was some mention in a previous thread that the Italian Spruce has been aged for a significant time.  And if the woods are higher grade does that mean they have been aged longer?

Thanks
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Jagadis
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« Reply #106 on: March 28, 2009, 06:24:18 PM »

When we (actually not me...the smarter people on the Forum like Randy, Ricky, Tuffy, Danny, etc) starting kicking around the idea for the Forum III guitar, a few folks remembered that Jean Larrivee had a stash of Italian Spruce tops that he had brought back from Europe a number or years back.  Jim Holler asked Jean if this wood was available for the Forum III guitars and he graciously agreed.  I have an all hog Forum III guitar and I haven't seen the Italian Spruce used on our new guitars. My understanding is that its much lighter/creamier in color vs. Canadian Sitka spruce and that the tonal qualities are superior and someone unique.  I'm not sure of the age of the tops but I think they have been sitting in the Vancouver shop for quite some time.  Maybe someone who went on the tour can respond with more accurate information.

In any case...these guitars are very unique and special given the wood used for the tops.

Jordan.
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BluesMan1
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« Reply #107 on: March 28, 2009, 06:41:58 PM »

Jordon, it was posted that they were cut in '72, so they've been aging since. Jean might have thrown some kinda magic mojo @ them, thus the "extra" tonal qualities!
Jeff   
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dragon1952
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« Reply #108 on: March 28, 2009, 06:50:56 PM »

Here's a couple things I found while researching the Italian spruce.

From a response by Tim McKnight, a sponser on the AGF site, to a question about the differences between spruces.
"You have to be careful with generic names like Euro spruce. I only have experience with Carpathian Spruce (Picea Abies) from the Ukrain / Black Sea area, Caucasian Spruce (Picea Orientalis) from Turkey and Italian (Picea Abies from the Italian Alps). None of these are the equivelant to our native Addirondac or Red Spruce (Picea Rubens).

Both of the Picea Abies are creamy white and can exhibit golden "hard Line" streaks in the wood (which I like). These darker streaks are supposedly from a tough or harsh winter condition but the good thing about these "hard lines" is that they make the sound board a LOT stiffer. The unique quality of this wood is that the white wood between the growth lines is very soft (like cedar) which makes it very responsive to a light touch. The grain lines are the HARDEST of any spruces that I have ever cut. You can't even dent these lines with your thumbnail. You will bend or break your nail before you dent the lines. These lines give the wood exceptional stiffness (stiffer than Adi) which in turn lets it have a higher headroom approaching or equaling Sitka but not exceeding Adi.
The Caucasian spruce is more of a golden color and has much tighter grain counts as it grows in higher elevations. The wood is denser and heavier than the others mentioned. The tonewood has a strong fundamental tone with some interesting overtones."

From http://www.rctonewoods.rcefaluguitars.com/italian_spruce.htm - I'm not sure about the term "Red Spruce". One of the other quotes uses the term "White Spruce"

"Italian Spruce has always been used in the Italian tradition of violin making: Stradivari himself used that wood to construct his instruments.
“Red Spruce” (Botanical name: Picea Excelsa o Picea Abies)  comes from the North Eastern area of the Italian Alps. The trees grow at high altitude, above 1400 up to 1800 meters. The vegetative time is only 100 days a year; the winters are long and cold, so the trees grow slowly and regularly. The growth to obtain a violin or guitar log is about 150 to 200 years, and even more for a cello log. This wood is very stiff and light: 400 kg/m3 as some studies have established. The average size of the Italian Spruce is much smaller and less regular than others kinds of Spruce, like Sitka Spruce for example. Many studies have been conducted to give a scientific explanation on why Spruce from the Italian Alps has exceptional acoustic qualities. Our experience has demonstrated that stiffness and lightness are the essential properties of Italian Spruce."

A similar description from another site,
"Italian( Alpine) Spruce Picea Excelsa o Picea Abies, Italian side of the Alps.

This legendary wood that Stradivarius used for his famous violins is still the no1 Tone wood for soundboards, but very hard to come by, and very expensive when found. If C.F. Would have used this wood in its Golden Era, it would have had similar fame as Adirondack(red) spruce. Italian Spruce has always been used in the Italian tradition of violin making and originates from the North Eastern area of the Italian Alps. The trees grow at high altitude, above 1400 up to 1800 meter and the vegetative time is only 100 days a year, the winters are long and cold, so the trees grow slowly and regularly. The growth to obtain a violin or guitar log is about 150 to 200 years, and even more for a cello log. This wood is very stiff and light: 400 kg/m3 as some studies have established. The average size of the Italian Spruce is much smaller and less regular than others kinds of Spruce, like Sitka Spruce for example. Many studies have been conducted to give a scientific explanation on why Spruce from the Italian Alps has exceptional acoustic qualities. Stiffness and lightness are of course essential properties of Italian Spruce still it has a mystical quality, because more woods have these qualities. The wood has more resonance than any other Tone wood and fantastic tap tone. European Tone-woods are often very expensive in the USA. The same goes for American Tone woods in Europe."

from another site,
"Italian Spruce (Picea Excelsa)
Italy. European White spruce as well as its extreme lightness in weight which seems to produce a slightly louder and more projective or "open" sound than Sitka spruce. European spruce grows in the alpine elevations of the Italian Alps. It is considerably more limited in supply than Sitka spruce."

A quote from "The 12th Fret" website re: a G.W. Barry guitar,
"We have just received two Indian rosewood Orchestra Models from this extremely gifted luthier that serve to illustrate the dramatic sonic impact of different top-plate tonewoods.   Gordon has made several guitars now using Italian Alpine spruce and is REALLY getting quite spectacular results!  In Mr. Barry's words: "Italian spruce as a material,  is much lighter than Sitka, but retains a surprising amount of crossgrain stiffness.  Its stiffness-to-weight ratio seems to produce a bassier or darker tonality.  Overall I would characterize each note as sounding 'rounder' with a complex overtone series."

I would have to agree with Gordon's impressions of this top wood.  To my ears,  the Italian spruce topped OM is the perfect instrument for a modern player who needs precise articulation,  response to even the lightest-of-light right hand attacks,  manifold overtone layers but less aggressive "edge".  The attack transient has less "point" but more "bloom" ... slightly less sizzle but slightly more steak!   What is the word I'm looking for?  LUSH? RICH? LUXURIENT? Yes!!! "




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« Reply #109 on: March 28, 2009, 06:54:10 PM »

The IS was from 1972 apparently.  It was Danny who new about it, having been shown it by JCL on a previous factory visit, and he who suggested it for the forum guitars.  There was an additional cost implication if I remember correctly.

The mahogany and the rosewood were supposed to be typical 03 series woods, but it is becomming apparent that the staff in Vancouver have hand picked some very impressive woods, perhaps arguably more suited to the 05 and 09 series of instruments.  For this I am very grateful.  From the details on Facebook, it is also apparent to me that this has been a great project for the Larrivee staff as well as the forum members.

Ben
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Ben
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« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2009, 07:02:45 PM »

There are a couple of things that I'd be interested in knowing about the Forum III specs. I'd like to know the the top thickness of the IS in comparison to the standard top thickness of the Sitka LS tops. I'd also like to know if Larrivee used their standard size bracing and standard brace carving. If anyone with both or one of these guitars and a caliper is curious....................
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Jagadis
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« Reply #111 on: March 28, 2009, 07:10:38 PM »

There are a couple of things that I'd be interested in knowing about the Forum III specs. I'd like to know the the top thickness of the IS in comparison to the standard top thickness of the Sitka LS tops. I'd also like to know if Larrivee used their standard size bracing and standard brace carving. If anyone with both or one of these guitars and a caliper is curious....................
Someone else will have to help with this.  I ain't going near my new baby with metal tools/calipers 

Last thing I want is to drop some metal tool on the guitar and end up with a bit fat booboo on my flamed hog top...

Jordan.
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« Reply #112 on: March 28, 2009, 07:12:19 PM »

Thanks Jordan, Jeff, Dragon1952, and Ben for the info.  Really, how can you not one of these.  Bring on the Forum III's.

Ray
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #113 on: March 28, 2009, 07:17:32 PM »



A quote from "The 12th Fret" website re: a G.W. Barry guitar,
" Its stiffness-to-weight ratio seems to produce a bassier or darker tonality.  "


Having a lesser stiffness to weight ratio would shift the bais toward the bass. The guitar may have been bassier but it wasn't because the top had a greater stiffness to weight ratio.
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tadol
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« Reply #114 on: March 28, 2009, 07:18:17 PM »

Judging from the Factory photos and our tour, it is their standard build, standard parts, standard techniques. They may have put a little more care in, a little more awareness of the spotlight on them shone by the Forum, but they did not alter their formula.  They did use some very special materials, though -

Tad
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« Reply #115 on: March 28, 2009, 07:45:10 PM »

Judging from the Factory photos and our tour, it is their standard build, standard parts, standard techniques. They may have put a little more care in, a little more awareness of the spotlight on them shone by the Forum, but they did not alter their formula.  They did use some very special materials, though -

Tad
   Also the IS is older cut and we have a 12 fret. Thus we have an interesting and very unique "Larrivee" and it truly shows in tone and resonance.

danny
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« Reply #116 on: March 28, 2009, 09:22:33 PM »

Where can I find a list of forum guitars?
And are any of them 00?
Thanks. :)
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Danny
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« Reply #117 on: March 28, 2009, 09:43:45 PM »

Where can I find a list of forum guitars?
And are any of them 00?
Thanks. :)
  All of the F-III forum gits are LS models, there is a thread that has a list of "extras" that are available, I'll find the link to it.

                            Here is the Link       http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=26164.msg236306#msg236306


danny
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Jagadis
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« Reply #118 on: March 28, 2009, 11:10:18 PM »

Here is another funny observation about the FIII guitar...

My 13 year old daughter is having a sleepover at my house tonight for her birthday so I brought my Forum III upstairs to my home office earlier today to keep it out of trouble and away from screaming 13 year olds.  I just got back from a 3 hour ride on my motorcycle and I headed up to my home office to check in with this forum.  As soon as I walked into the room I noticed that the whole room smells like Forum III guitar.... drool drool drool drool

Not sure why but this git is one heck of an air freshener....hehehehehe.  No need to wear cologne when playing this thing.  The smell is freakin awesome.  I bet the women really dig it...

...just winding up the people who are still waiting 

Jordan.

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« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2009, 11:59:10 PM »

  The smell comes partially from the case, even with it closed I smell a nice fragrance when I'm close to it.
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