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Author Topic: Collings OM worth it?  (Read 34000 times)
rpm60912
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« Reply #140 on: June 24, 2009, 02:55:09 AM »

Kazz,

Thanks for the helpful info and your opinions. I agree with you regarding imported guitars in the 500-1000 range built in Asia that are finished with thick shiny stuff to cover imperfections. I must admit I've spotted some especially when I was looking at imported Guild guitars. When I got serious about acoustics in late 2006, the only thing I would consider are the Japanese-built Takamine.

Though Asian myself, I prefer the North American made guitars. So I started with Seagulls, Art & Lutherie and currently selling a friend's Simon & Patrick --- all made in La Patrie, Quebec by Monsieur Robert Godin.

Then, it was all Taylor for me until I stumbled into this Forum last September 2008.

I must confess I don't like the "stitched up" joint of Taylor's headstock and neck (sorry I don't know the exact terminology) 2006 and earlier models. The late 2006 models like my GS has a cleaner looking join. Of course, their R. Taylor line may offer a 1-piece, but I've seen them done like the 2008 Fall Limiteds.

As for wood conservation and sustainability, I applaud the efforts of guitar manufacturers in this regard. I've read it somewhere that the total consumption of wood used for guitar building worldwide accounts for about 1% of total trees harvested (specifically the article was referring to Alaskan Sitka Spruce); I'm sure I read the article from Taylor's Wood & Steel newsletter sometime in 2007.

I guess I haven't been around acoustic guitars long enough to appreciate the difference between poly vs. lacquer finish. Since I live in winter country up north, I prefer not having to worry about finish checking.

Also, I now prefer satin finish guitars. BTW, satin or matte finish guitars --- is there such a thing as (1) satin lacquer or (2) satin poly? For the techies reading this - please pardon me if my question is too basic or if my question does not make any sense.

BTW - that's a nice multi-piece neck Jeremy. It looks like a 3-5,000 guitar.

Thanks again,

ricky

PS - I read about Greenfield and Olson guitars --- starting at 12,000-15,000 and a waiting period of at least 1 or 2 years!
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #141 on: June 24, 2009, 03:28:39 AM »


Also, I now prefer satin finish guitars. BTW, satin or matte finish guitars --- is there such a thing as (1) satin lacquer or (2) satin poly? For the techies reading this - please pardon me if my question is too basic or if my question does not make any sense.


Satin does not denote the type of material. Satin just refers to how smooth or glossy the finish is, just like in house paint. Satin finishes just have a flattening agent added so the final coat can be sprayed on then left to cure with a satin sheen. So yes you can have satin nitro, satin water based lacquer, or satin UV poly, etc.

BTW - that's a nice multi-piece neck Jeremy. It looks like a 3-5,000 guitar.


It's an Olsen with a UV poly finish.
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kazzelectro
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« Reply #142 on: June 24, 2009, 03:37:06 AM »

Jeremy
I like the neck on your guitar as well.  When I say 3 piece neck I am referring to a scharf joint near the headstock and a joint where the neck meets the body.  Again, I quite like the multi-wood lamination on your guitar...reminds me of neck through electric guitars.   
As far as using glue and shims to fill in gaps in dovetail joints...I believe that the use of cnc machinery has created a very good near perfect dovetail joint that would have no need for shims...just good wood to wood contact.  In the olden days shims were common and I agree not the best.
Kazz
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #143 on: June 24, 2009, 04:00:22 AM »

It's not my guitar, I'm not that wealthy.

It's scarf joint, go to urban dictionary and look up scharf.

They don't use cnc machines to cut the mortise and tenon of the dovetail, they use a router and jig. And yes they do use shims. You can watch them do it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcJVh-kOXhg

Routing the mortise and tenon is in part 3
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kazzelectro
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« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2009, 10:40:41 AM »

I'm not interested in what the definition of scharf is in urban dictionary...a scharfed neck is where the headstock is glued to the shaft of the neck. 
The Larrivee video did not indicate how the dovetail joint was made...either way it's done by machine and has a snug fit with more contact area than a bolt-on.
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2009, 01:44:01 PM »

I'm not interested in what the definition of scharf is in urban dictionary...a scharfed neck is where the headstock is glued to the shaft of the neck. 

It's scarf not scharf.

The Larrivee video did not indicate how the dovetail joint was made...either way it's done by machine and has a snug fit with more contact area than a bolt-on.

They do it exactly like I said. Again, how the dovetail is made is in part 3.
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GA-ME
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« Reply #146 on: June 24, 2009, 01:49:26 PM »

I'm not interested in what the definition of scharf is in urban dictionary...a scharfed neck is where the headstock is glued to the shaft of the neck. 
The Larrivee video did not indicate how the dovetail joint was made...either way it's done by machine and has a snug fit with more contact area than a bolt-on.

It is not a scharf joint. It is a scarf joint or sometimes called scarph joint. There's no such thing in joinery, as far as I have ever heard, as a scharfed joint. I think you'd do well to research what you are arguing.
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kazzelectro
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« Reply #147 on: June 24, 2009, 01:57:25 PM »

...a separate headstock glued onto the neck..irrelevant what the term is. rolleye
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #148 on: June 24, 2009, 02:05:50 PM »

...a separate headstock glued onto the neck..irrelevant what the term is. rolleye

The scarf joint is a certain type of joint, it doesn't have to be joining a headstock and neck. There are other ways to join the headstock to the neck like the different types of V joints and the finger joint that Taylor was using.

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Tony Burns
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« Reply #149 on: June 24, 2009, 02:42:28 PM »

A few years ago I played a collings or two at elderly - at the time i was more into Martin's and was blind sighted . Their a bit Matinesque but have a different puchy sound to them -their Dread Hog ( simalar to a D-18 ) stands hands above a D-18 in sound- almost like they added 10 years of temperment to them .They are very dominate in the Bluegrass scene -see tons of them .I think with any instrument that your not familiar with Id play one before i bought one ( thou i love their Hogs) I havent played a OM by collings and cant comment on them - but if their anything like their Dreads you have a winner.  Another brand to consider if your looking at OM's might be Goodall - they have a Trom that would be my first pick . ( I own a Goodall AKS in Koa that i adore - the Standard model is Goodalls answer to the Dread - even thou they now made a traditional Dread )
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kazzelectro
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« Reply #150 on: June 24, 2009, 03:28:37 PM »

Haven't tried a Collings D-18 model but I agree that the current model Martin D-18 that I played recently was less than spectacular...perhaps it needs some time to open up.
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ffinke
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« Reply #151 on: June 24, 2009, 06:33:33 PM »

A few years ago I played a collings or two at elderly - at the time i was more into Martin's and was blind sighted . Their a bit Matinesque but have a different puchy sound to them -their Dread Hog ( simalar to a D-18 ) stands hands above a D-18 in sound- almost like they added 10 years of temperment to them .They are very dominate in the Bluegrass scene -see tons of them .I think with any instrument that your not familiar with Id play one before i bought one ( thou i love their Hogs) I havent played a OM by collings and cant comment on them - but if their anything like their Dreads you have a winner.  Another brand to consider if your looking at OM's might be Goodall - they have a Trom that would be my first pick . ( I own a Goodall AKS in Koa that i adore - the Standard model is Goodalls answer to the Dread - even thou they now made a traditional Dread )

I can say "I do own an OM and it is great". Very 'mature' sound and projection.

Haven't tried a Collings D-18 model but I agree that the current model Martin D-18 that I played recently was less than spectacular...perhaps it needs some time to open up.

I also owned a D-18 (1967) until the early '80s. I never knew what good sound was until I got the Colling OM(2Hcutaway) and of course my Larrivee L-03.

f
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Larrivee L-03 w/Gotoh 381 tuners (African Mahogany/Sitka)
Collings OM2Hc (EIR/Sitka)
Schenk Ophirio (Sapele/Cedar)
Bourgeois 00 Custom (Mahogany/It. Spruce)
maplebaby
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« Reply #152 on: June 24, 2009, 09:05:35 PM »

i LOVE mine - this may or may not be of interest but it seems to go with the thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxT8od2dTs
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rpm60912
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« Reply #153 on: June 26, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »

Dale, thanks for the treat. I've seen your videos. Sure enjoyed watching this again. You are so blessed to own a collection of very finely crafted and great sounding and great looking guitars --- with the guitar-playing talent to go with it.

Thanks for sharing and inspiring us. ricky
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tadol
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« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2009, 02:31:21 AM »

The scarf joint is a certain type of joint, it doesn't have to be joining a headstock and neck. There are other ways to join the headstock to the neck like the different types of V joints and the finger joint that Taylor was using.

Now THATS a scarf joint - but it looks like a lot more work than it was probably worth, especially given that it all had to be done by hand. Probably not that many guitars used it. But considering the glues they were using, mechanical connections were very important.

Tad

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Bunch of Larrivees - all good -
and a wife that still puts up with me, which is the best -
jeremy3220
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« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2009, 02:42:15 AM »

Now THATS a scarf joint - but it looks like a lot more work than it was probably worth, especially given that it all had to be done by hand. Probably not that many guitars used it. But considering the glues they were using, mechanical connections were very important.


Actually that's not a scarf joint, it's a V joint. That's where the volute originally came from. I guess the advantage over the typical scarf joint is more wood for support. They(Martin) were using hot hide glue which would work just as well if not better than modern PVA/AR glues(ie better heat resistance).
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maplebaby
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« Reply #156 on: July 02, 2009, 11:55:45 AM »

Dale, thanks for the treat. I've seen your videos. Sure enjoyed watching this again. You are so blessed to own a collection of very finely crafted and great sounding and great looking guitars --- with the guitar-playing talent to go with it.

Thanks for sharing and inspiring us. ricky

thanks for the very kind feeback...sure appreciated!  Hope your summer is going well....with some good pickin time!  Stay well,
dale
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