Bringing out the bass in my OM-03R

[GA-ME]

To understand the difference in Larrrive's bass response compared to a more typical unsymetrical X brace pattern is not that difficult. Reach inside the Larrivee, any Larrivee(except perhaps the truly handbuilt early ones), and feel the giant stick that is glued directly behind the bridge plate. Take a typical X braced guitar and reach inside that one and think about how much less inhibitory in the bass bout typical tone bars are. The more wood glued cross gained across a particular top, at a particular thickness, the less it will vibrate. No amount of wishing for magical opening up can change the physical properties of a particular guitar's build.

Larrivee overbuilds to avoid warrenty issues. I understand their perspective there. The guitars still sound surprisingly good and sometimes the Gods line up and they sound superb. I've mentioned before on the forum how I still long for a particular 00-50 I passed on.

[Queequeg]

To understand the difference in Larrrive's bass response compared to a more typical unsymetrical X brace pattern is not that difficult. Reach inside the Larrivee, any Larrivee(except perhaps the truly handbuilt early ones), and feel the giant stick that is glued directly behind the bridge plate. Take a typical X braced guitar and reach inside that one and think about how much less inhibitory in the bass bout typical tone bars are. The more wood glued cross gained across a particular top, at a particular thickness, the less it will vibrate. No amount of wishing for magical opening up can change the physical properties of a particular guitar's build.

Larrivee overbuilds to avoid warrenty issues. I understand their perspective there. The guitars still sound surprisingly good and sometimes the Gods line up and they sound superb. I've mentioned before on the forum how I still long for a particular 00-50 I passed on.

Thank you, GA-ME. Which is why my Martin OM sounds a lot richer and deeper (read: "bassy") than my Larrivee OM. In fact, the Martin sounds more like my L.

[Broadus]

Thank you, GA-ME. Which is why my Martin OM sounds a lot richer and deeper (read: "bassy") than my Larrivee OM. In fact, the Martin sounds more like my L.

That's what I'm saying. My Eastman OM has more of the L bass. There is a "richness" that's absent in my OM-03R, at least to my ears. Maybe I need to buy a Martin. Anybody have an OM-21 they want to sell real cheap?   

Bill

[GeeNorm]

Your comments on the Eastman intrigue me. Why is it you said awhile back it might not record as well as the Larrivee?

[GA-ME]

Bill, I don't know what you have in the Larrivee, as far as cash outlay, but if its used it certianly should have been south of a grand. If you want to muck around a bit look for an 03 thats been somebody's player, workhorse, so to speak. If its banged around and marred up cosmetically you might be able to find an 03 OM at 5-6 bills and that is cheap enough to experiment with. I'd have a go at the braces. Once again, a little bit at a time until you achieve what you are looking for.

The internet is a wealth of information and you could spend a few months learning, then pick up a cheap, solid top OM, and muck around with it to learn on. To me, nothing FEELS better than learning to do things for myself. Thats what used to make America tick. A sense of good old fashioned can do attitude! Then again, thats just me and this isn't really the place to get all existential!

[Broadus]

Your comments on the Eastman intrigue me. Why is it you said awhile back it might not record as well as the Larrivee?

Hi Norm,

That was speculation based upon what I've read others post about recording. I don't know the proper sound terms, but the Eastman's sound is really "lush" and the sustain of individual strings is so long that I wondered if they would have the clarity of the OM-03R.

Now, though, I suspect the Eastman should record just fine. Understand that this is all speculation on my part since I don't have the wherewithal to record.

And too, I may have been struggling to say something nice about the OM-03R. I have really struggled to say that I prefer the sound of the Eastman to the Larrivee.

Bill

[Mr_LV19E]

then again, I wish other long-time OM owners who also own L would chime in.

ricky

I have both but the L is Spruce topped Rosewood and the OM is all Mahogany. There is no similarity in sound.

[jeremy3220]

If you want bass get yourself a Bass, you will never get true bass from a standard guitar. Low mids, yes but not bass.

I don't think so, the lowest E note is 82.407hz. So it does produce bass notes.

[GA-ME]

Not to mention when you start tuning down to open d/d-minor and such.

[jimmyp]

i have owned a Parlor, an L an Om, and a D. The parlor had the least bass, the D has the most. There is no way around it. Try putting mediums on your OM(13's). My Om sounded terrible with 11's, better than OK with 12's, best of all with 13's. JP

[Mr_LV19E]

I don't think so, the lowest E note is 82.407hz. So it does produce bass notes.

I stand corrected.

[bearsville0]

I stand corrected.

Not so fast. It's all a matter of context. Perception is more important than machine measurements. 

[lissandavegreen]

I had a d05 that I tried a ton of strings on untill I used dr sunbeams med heavy they gave me a cannon of a bass string all the strings sounded great the only guitar I have had that a set of strings really woke it up....good luck

[jeremy3220]

Not so fast. It's all a matter of context. Perception is more important than machine measurements. 

Is that a joke?

[tadol]

I am really intrigued with the idea of thinning the braces on a Larrivee. It definitely seems to be alot heavier braced than other guitars, and getting in there with a fingerplane and shaving a bit off here and there could really open it up.

The trick is knowing the here and there - has anyone done this, or know anything about the technique? Or worse, any horror stories from doing it poorly?

Tad

[dragon1952]

When I traded my L-03R for the OM-03R that I now have, I knew I was going to give up some bass but I just thought that's the way things were with OM's. When I got my Eastman OM, however, I felt like I regained the bass of my departed-L though the size is an OM.

Is there any way I can get more bass out of my OM-03R? I am wondering particularly about different strings. I put D'Addario EXP16's on it, but they sound kind of dull on the Larrivee. What might Elixir Nano's sound like? PB or 80/20? Any other strings, especially coated?

Anything else? All insight is appreciated. I'm trying to stay contented with my Larrivee!

Thanks,
Bill

If you don't think you are getting as much bass as you should be, check the fit of the saddle. Somebody has obviously replaced the original, and I don't know where it came from or who fitted it. But I've been playing around lately with bone saddles. I got one from Larrivee that was a bad fit.....way too narrow in thickness. And then I got a couple from Bob Colosi. These have to be sanded down, both in height and thickness. If yours doesn't have a proper fit, it could affect bass response. Especially important is that it is perfectly flat on the bottom. I've had that issue with bass response and had to pull the saddle out and re-sand, and it can make a difference.

[bearsville0]

Is that a joke?

Jeremy3220, aren't you the one always going on about "subjectivity"?   What you actually hear and determine the sound to be  trumps anything a machine measuring device has to say. if it sounds tinny, it is tinny. The sound will be perceived by our brains differently depending on the sounds that precede and supercede it, regardless of any "objective" measurement.

[jeremy3220]

Jeremy3220, aren't you the one always going on about "subjectivity"?   What you actually hear and determine the sound to be  trumps anything a machine measuring device has to say. if it sounds tinny, it is tinny.

Yes, about tone/timbre I talk about subjectivity. This is different because I'm talking not about timbre. If your guitar is tuned to 440 and you play your open low E string, the note will be at 82.407hz unless your guitar is out of tune. The guitar absolutely produces bass notes, whether it sounds bassy to you or not is a different matter. Overtones are an important part in the sound of the guitar, most people don't realize that all the sound past about 1kHz on their acoustic guitar is overtones.

[bearsville0]

No problem there, I'm just wondering what authority designated 82.407hz as "bass"? And where does "treble" end and bass begin?

[Broadus]

If you don't think you are getting as much bass as you should be, check the fit of the saddle. Somebody has obviously replaced the original, and I don't know where it came from or who fitted it. But I've been playing around lately with bone saddles. I got one from Larrivee that was a bad fit.....way too narrow in thickness. And then I got a couple from Bob Colosi. These have to be sanded down, both in height and thickness. If yours doesn't have a proper fit, it could affect bass response. Especially important is that it is perfectly flat on the bottom. I've had that issue with bass response and had to pull the saddle out and re-sand, and it can make a difference.

The original owner had Jim at Trinity put a bone saddle in it, so I am confident that the saddle is right. I'm going to put some new strings on it today. The D'Addario EXP16's are only a few weeks old and they definitely having gotten enough play time to be dead. Nevertheless, I took both guitars to play with some friends last night, and both described the Larri at "muddy" and "mid-rangy." I think a Larrivee OM is designed to be more mid-range, but muddy is definitely not acceptable. I think that may have to do with the strings as much as anything.

Concerning the bracing and altering the Larrivee "trade mark" tone, I wonder otherwise. I think it would still have the Larrivee tone with perhaps more volume and a bit more emphasis upon the bass if it were done properly. All theory for me because I don't know if I want to touch that.

Thanks for all responses and always glad to receive more.

Bill