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Author Topic: Strap Pin or Not?  (Read 4115 times)
ducktrapper
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« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2009, 04:06:16 PM »

I make no assumptions, of course, although everyone else does! Obviously, there are exceptions and I'm not trying to make ironclad rules but I think it's hard to deny that a guitarist who's sitting tends to fold himself into his guitar. While it might not matter when recording, it's not the best presentation for an audience. I also think it depends on whether you sing, as well. Succesful singer songwriters? Dylan stands (even when he's playing piano). Prine stands. Simon stands. Cohen stands. Lightfoot stands. Earle stands. 
BTW, the strap attached to the headstock doesn't get in my way, it just that it requires you to hold and play the neck at the same time. An activity that I find makes certain chords or measures more difficult to play. 
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roguegnome
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« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2009, 08:07:25 PM »

Funny, I never thought of Leo Kottke, Pat Donohue, Adrian Legg, Kelly Joe Phelps, Jorma, Pierre Bensusan or Andre Segovia as just phoning it in because they sat down to play.
OK for piano players?
And thousands, nay millions of people might say, "Who?" Maybe they should try standing. 
Better to be very good than to be noticed by the masses. Maybe. I think. Others are certain to disagree, I know. Fame is their game. To your later post about singers, I think I would agree. But then I think of guys like Chris Smither. Always sits while he plays. And he sings and plays and writes right up there (seated, of course) with the best of them.
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« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2009, 09:33:40 PM »

Chris Smither would have a difficult time doing his dual foot tapping rhythm thing while standing.   I think he sits while he plays out of necessity.  Seeing him play while seated did not distract me or make me feel any less amazed by his talent.   He could have been laying down for all I cared.

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bluesman67
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« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2009, 09:47:17 PM »

When I gig, I sit and use a foot tapping thing to give rhythm to the music, but if I didn't, I would still sit!  Duck wouldn't like my show.  whistling
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bluesman67
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« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2009, 09:59:02 PM »

+10 on Smither. His song Hold On is one of the tunes I consider to be perfect.
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2009, 11:37:47 PM »

Wouldn't like your show? Unfortunately, if I don't like the music, I want to go home and play guitar. If I like you? I want to go home and play guitar, even more.   
Is it germane to point out that the most popular instrumental guitarist today and maybe ever, Tommy Emmanuel, stands to play?
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bluesman67
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« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2009, 11:54:59 PM »

Oh I'm just teasing you a little, Duck, because I know you can take it.
 
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« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2009, 05:35:22 PM »

In reference to whether it's safe to tie onto the headstock here's what Richard Hoover (Santa Cruz Guitar Co.) has to say:

 Re: headstocks and straps
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2009, 07:44:36 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi ZeeBee,
Warnings against tying the strap on to the peghead go back way farther then my career in lutherie. Concerns being that the weight of the guitar, or antics of the player can exert forces that could throw the neck out of whack. I see this repeated by experts today, however...
in three plus decades of guitar science, repair, and failure analysis have I seen or heard of
any instance where this has created a problem in normal use. Consider that your strings pull with up to 160 lbs of force and that the weight on the end of the strap is probably under 4 lbs. and that the wood in the dovetail joint will fail due to torque before the glue joint will and because the guitar in its case or stand rests a percentage of its weight on the upper neck without neck problems... I have chosen to resign the peghead/strap threat to folklore. I will, as always, welcome others experiance to the contrary that may temper my judgement.
That said; there realy isn't a handy palce to secure the strap on the peghead that won't worry the finish eventually or perhaps interfere with tuning. If that doesn't concern you I say go ahead and tie one on.
All the best,
Richard


I still prefer the strap button on the heel but we shan't be snobbery, 'eh whot?

fred
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« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2009, 05:53:31 PM »


Is it germane to point out that the most popular instrumental guitarist today and maybe ever, Tommy Emmanuel, stands to play?
touché , sir. Tommy rocks with few if any peers.
as to Chris Smither (who I am going to see for the 4th time in early April) Intelligent Design is a favorite and certain to be a crowd pleaser, what with this being Darwin's 200th birthday.
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« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2009, 12:51:24 AM »

Hey Friends... I totally got lost when the discussion went to the performers sitting versus standing part.

I'll try to read up the previous posts but many artists I don't know (pardon my ignorance); but this too is expanding my musical taste.

ricky
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Danny
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« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2009, 04:05:15 AM »

  Back to the ? I wouldn't put one in any of my better gits. My F-III won't get one for sure. But I don't gig so no need to stand. If you don't know exactly how to put one in, take it to someone who does. I've seen cracks from bad angles and just ugly pin installs where they are crooked because the screw angle is not right.
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« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2009, 05:18:54 AM »

  Back to the ? I wouldn't put one in any of my better gits. My F-III won't get one for sure. But I don't gig so no need to stand. If you don't know exactly how to put one in, take it to someone who does. I've seen cracks from bad angles and just ugly pin installs where they are crooked because the screw angle is not right.

Being accustomed to the standard strap pin in Taylor heels, I thought I'd have one on my Larris (I can't believe I now have more than one and one more coming).

But, I have somewhat been influenced by others here who want their heels clean - so I got me the Planet Waves quick release gadget that some suggested.

No problems so  far and I'm getting lots of practice playing standing up.

ricky
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es-335
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« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2009, 06:00:50 PM »

I never put strap pins on my guitars!
My [now]beater no name guitar has a strap pin... Just because I used to do sunday services with the guitar for 4 years with it... but that was a really cheap guitar.. it only had a solid sitka top and laminate back/side...

But I won't put any holes on my gibson or larrivee, just because... I don't see the need.. If I did sunday services every week again? Maybe I'll think about it.. but still then, Bob dylan never put any holes on his guitars.. and that's how I 


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Jeffrey

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« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2009, 07:16:59 PM »

After much deliberation I had Jim Holler install a strap pin in the heel of my D-35 last Saturday and it works great for the new Long Hollow Leather strap I bought from Gruhn Guitars. Standing up to play via strumming or finger picking is a nice change of pace and even for sitting. I have played sitting down using a strap fastened to the heel button and using a Planet Waves on the neck and fastened to the heel button feels better. My son took a lesson from Blues Guitar Player Scott Ainsle a couple of weeks ago who said he uses a strap to play when sitting and standing. Check out his web site.

A word to the wise to all do-it-yourselfers out there. While Jim was installing the strap button, he told me about a guy who decided to install a strap pin on his own into the heel of his Taylor Guitar and managed to hit the bolt from the bolt-on neck not once but twice and he succeeded in breaking off the screw both times.

No strap buttons or holes are being drilled into my Larrivee Parlor which didn't even come with an end pin or my OM-35 (which did). i will use the Planet Waves for those rare occasions when I would be standing to play the OM which I use mainly for finger style sitting down.
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2009, 12:30:24 PM »

I think maybe I should point out that once the pin is in, the hole is ... gone.       
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Queequeg
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« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2009, 01:19:13 PM »

I think maybe I should point out that once the pin is in, the hole is ... gone.       
OK, we're launching a full-blown investigation.
Things don't just disappear, Sir.
Exactly where did the hole go?
When did you last see it, and can tell us your particular whereabouts when the alleged hole went missing?
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Danny
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« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2009, 01:27:33 PM »

  Was it a "Black Hole?''
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« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2009, 01:28:16 PM »

To each thier own.
 To me a guitar is to play. I don't like a strap tied to headstock at all.

1st off it gets in the way of left hand or at the least makes it feel like it's space is being encroached upon.

2nd it moves the guitar to position I don't like. With regular guitar, 14 fret, I sit down when setting strap length, then when I stand up, guitar is in same proper position as if I were sitting.  With 12 fret it does move guitar but puts it in a better position for me.

3rd I don't like the idea of neck being pulled on. The neck has impact on tone and to me should be left to vibrate freely and transfer those vibrations to the body. Plus it doesn't take much pull to affect tuning.

If you play sitting then sure, why put one on? Sitting is usually good when playing the guitar is only thing going on, but there are good reasons for standing. If you were going to sing, no guitar, would you sit? I wouldn't. My lungs can take in more air when I'm standing and hold notes better/longer with stomach and chest not compressed in sitting postion. That makes a big difference to me and I need everything I can get in that department.  When playing with others I also like to be able to turn to them easily, especially when playing rythm, and lock in on them, not only with ears but visually. To pick up on thier body lingo and let them pick up on mine.
 If you use a mic, it allows you to move into and out of, more easily.

If you're going to stand,  don't let the very idea of putting a button on the heal stop you from doing whats best for the playing.
To be honest, I wouldn't really get someone who stands getting hung up on this when there's almost always a piece of metal stuck in the rear end already. And I would rather buy a guitar with button in already.  



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ducktrapper
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« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2009, 01:32:41 PM »

OK, we're launching a full-blown investigation.
Things don't just disappear, Sir.
Exactly where did the hole go?
When did you last see it, and can tell us your particular whereabouts when the alleged hole went missing?

The alleged hole was last seen at The Albert Hall. ;) 
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Will Fly
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« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2009, 01:44:18 PM »

Some facts as far as I know them...

1. Larrivee leave the choice of strap button or not to the customer - but there is nothing within the construction of the guitar that will cause a problem if a button is installed.

2. A strap looped around the headstock, behind the nut and under the strings, does not put undue strain on the guitar neck.

3. There's very little indication that an installed button is going to have any effect on a resale price.

So, basically, it's down to personal choice. I've always preferred a button at the side of the neck heel, personally, as I find the balance of the guitars I use to be uncomfortable if strapped at the headstock. Many players, however, prefer a headstock strap.

What I REALLY want is what my electrics have - a straplock fitting that can be snapped on and off both ends - but the jack socket/strap button at the bottom of the acoustic precludes this...
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