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Author Topic: Why is Martin so stuck on Toner?  (Read 10520 times)
Queequeg
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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 04:45:53 PM »

this is my Kretchmar parlor (circa 1900; no toner added)
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magictwanger
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2009, 05:41:09 AM »

I used to have a Martin M-38,when my kids were young(sold it)which I liked at the time.I liked the "aged" ,yeah sort of "orangy" look....Then!

  I have moved towards the more natural looking tops these days,and it is simply a matter of taste I guess.I'd even prefer a lovely natural top,to a sunburst one,but that's just me.I've come to absolutely LOVE the look of wood......."Bare,naked, glossed wood"!!

  This surely must stem from my eight years of wood shop,while I was in grade school.It was an after school activity,that had a lasting impact on me.Unfortunately,the older tough kids frequently stole my work,and my shop teacher was a woos,but I learned how to keep what I'd made,after a few black eyes. ohmy

  Still,there are some lovely examples of the "aging" toner look,and Martin makes a few good ones.I've recently seen a few.

  As to sonics and different vibe,between Larri's and Martin.Well,if you shoot over to the "D-28 Lounge",there will be a contingent of those folks who simply worship "the" Martin Sound!That is what they are into!!Just fine by me.

  I have no axe to grind at all,and have recently been shopping for new guitars."Interesting" to say the least,and even with my limited experience,the differences were as apparent as a clear day contrasts with a cloudy one.

  I wound up with what suited "me",but I could not say any particular "Top Name" mfgr had it all over another,and I played a load of great gits.Maybe there are those who know alot more than me,but I found a proliferation of amazing guitars,from many unique and well known sources.To typecast "one" company as somewhat disappointing,across the board,is a bit off the mark IMO.

  I've always questioned those folks(nobody in particular)who claim to find a "one of a kind" Holy Grail Instrument,almost regularly!...AND this is only my opinion.

  To me,the new Martins I played were still superb instruments(though I did not wind up with one) and as I played more and more new guitars(over three months)looking for the few to have for myself,I became aware of what I'd guess is "The Martin Sound".A bit dark and woody,with a nice bass depth and balance.Very,very nice!....My Larri D-O3R is completely different from almost all the Martin Rosewood Dreads I played,but I would not be accurate defining one as "much" better than the other.......Yet,and yet I did play "one" particular HD-28VS (oh .. ohmy..not "that" Holy Grail thing)that "HAD IT",and big time!..But so did one particular Goodall Round Shouldered Dread(Koa),two different H&D Hog Dreads,and one or two Collings gits,not to mention Bourgeois and a few Larrivees(there's others too)....I'm beginning to think,"what do I know"? wacko

  I"m thinking "Wine" and the different aspects of a particular Vinter's approach,with the same grape variety!Another grower,might be superb,but it can,and will be very different!.....

  Ok,Ray,Zohn(true story,btw)...I'd recently wanted a nice Shiraz,and had been buying very nice Australian bottles for little money,over a few months.Saw some nice Shiraz from South Africa(guess who I thought of,and dedicated the bottle to?)so I made my move(it was on sale).....
"
  Totally different from what I'd gotten used to,and absolutely superb....but "different",really different!!....Like Martin,Larri,or a host of other gits.....THAT"S the fun of it for me!....Sound!!...Tone,timbre,definition,articulation,even smell.What can I say?I know I'm nuts rolleye

   Best to all

  Btw....RAY....THAT Bearclaw is GORGEOUS!!!It represents(to the n'th degree)what my current "natural top" tastes are these days.I thought "my" Bear Claw'd H&D OM was nice,but compared to "that" top,mine looks about a week old in aging of the Spruce.Sheesh,no matter how far one goes,there is always another dimension.Gotta love it.....Btw,I'm still waiting for "Part II". whistling
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magictwanger
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2009, 04:54:49 PM »

Btw,I'm sorry...as I did forget to mention something I have found quite interesting.....

  When I was just recently seriously scoping out "many" various mfgrs,and attempting to come to some kind of conclusion regarding what I'd want,I paid four visits to Mandolin Bros."This" is a fantastic place to hang out at.I mean,"don't bring the family"!You are going to want to spend alot of time there,even if you don't think you will.....GUARANTEED!!..You WILL be nagged to leave,by the wife and kids!...You won't want to!!!

  Better to give the wife and kids a few spare dollars,and drop them off at a Mall,so they can do some "time consuming" shopping.Then,you are at Guitar Disney World.I promise that!!....OK,my point of interest,from careful observation...

  Mandolin Bros has at least six to eight separate rooms for "fretted" instruments.They have at least three of those rooms,dedicated to Martin.The other rooms have various mfgrs,and some are really interesting.Guitars abound from Bourgeois,Collings,Goodall,Santa Cruz and Huss & Dalton In "ONE" of the outer rooms(not to mention the Banjo and Mandolin rooms)....YET....

  I'd say about 75 % of the folks coming into the store almost "immediately" go for the Martin rooms,and give the Martin guitars 90% of their time.Just "maybe" do they meander into the other rooms.

  I don't know,but this really seemed interesting to me.Here I was,having taken the advice of a Larrivee Forum poster(Zohn)and tried to be open minded about the "industry" in general.I was forced to spend hours on end making sure I did not buy on emotion.Not easy,believe me!!

  So,I'd "done" the Martin rooms,and definitely loved it,but I wound up "living" in the Goodall,Bourgeois,H&D,and Santa Cruz room....ALONE!....."basically".I wound up with a few from "there"and was surprised myself,because I had wanted to buy at least one Martin.

  That has to tell us a few things(I assume)....

  #1-Martin makes fine instruments,that many folks LOVE!

  #2-Martin has a great marketing dept.

  #3-Some are leary of spending alot of money on lesser known,but still superb instruments

  #4-I have alot to learn,as I'd expected to buy two Martins,and wound up with none!...I still totally like them,but it was my money,and my taste.Hmph?

  #5-Miscellaneous
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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2009, 06:38:10 AM »

I'd love to demo a OM-21 special.  Other than the look of the toner I haven't heard anything bad about them.   I have to admit I'd prefer bit less  "colored" look for the top but I'm a sucker for that pyramid bridge.   drool
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Danny
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« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2009, 08:16:50 AM »

I have a Martin custom shop OM (with toner) similar to an OM-21. It weighs about 1/2 as much as my Larrivee OM and I hate to admit it, especially here, but it sounds a lot better. I got it from a friend of mine who was injured in a fall and is a quadriplegic, so I don't know what he paid for it. It has his name on the label and CFM IV signed and all. The thing just sounds incredible, with or without the toner and/or the name son the label. An amazing guitar.
              I sure would enjoy a pic of that one.
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« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2009, 08:27:01 AM »

   Neither of these has toner, just old and older. (accept for the 2006 LSV-11 of course) The OM-21 is a 93 and the Gibby is a 66.

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Too many guitars... But I keep thinking one more may just do it.
Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2009, 09:28:46 PM »

That reversed bridge thing just looks wrong to me.

Does anyone know the history behind that?  If I had to guess, I would say somebody put the bridges in the fixture backward and the company didn't want to waste them so they decided to use them and make a fashion statement.
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Roger


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Danny
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2009, 04:36:58 AM »

That reversed bridge thing just looks wrong to me.

Does anyone know the history behind that?  If I had to guess, I would say somebody put the bridges in the fixture backward and the company didn't want to waste them so they decided to use them and make a fashion statement.
Well it's plastic also. So there;-)
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Too many guitars... But I keep thinking one more may just do it.
Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2009, 05:49:53 AM »

Well it's plastic also. So there;-)

I meant no offence to your guitar, I actually really like the look of the guitar.

And just because the bridge doesn't appeal to me doesn't mean I wouldn't be proud to own it.  After all it is a 66 Gibby, as you put it.
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Roger


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« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2009, 06:09:54 AM »

I meant no offence to your guitar, I actually really like the look of the guitar.

And just because the bridge doesn't appeal to me doesn't mean I wouldn't be proud to own it.  After all it is a 66 Gibby, as you put it.
  I took know offense at all, I don't like the "belly in" bridge either.
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« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2009, 07:32:40 PM »

Im not real crazy about the fact martin used toner on my '05 OM28v - but hey its a great guitar -I just think people want an instant old guitar - me ive already got my old guitars .When i oprdered my greven back in 1980 i wished i had the lacquer tinted like a few ive seen - but over the past 28 years -its naturally darkened .

By the way ive always got a kick out of the gibson reversed bridge - I always thought they were making fun of Martin by basically coping the bridge and turning it backwards -it does look wrong to me -but it is  funky !
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magictwanger
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« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2009, 09:04:12 PM »

Well,all in all if the guitar looks nice I've got no problem at all....Toner or not!

  I've seen alot of good looking instruments that had toner,and would have no problem owning any of them.
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Safricanplayer
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2009, 02:41:34 AM »

I used to have a Martin M-38,when my kids were young(sold it)which I liked at the time.I liked the "aged" ,yeah sort of "orangy" look....Then!

  I have moved towards the more natural looking tops these days,and it is simply a matter of taste I guess.I'd even prefer a lovely natural top,to a sunburst one,but that's just me.I've come to absolutely LOVE the look of wood......."Bare,naked, glossed wood"!! 
  I've always questioned those folks(nobody in particular)who claim to find a "one of a kind" Holy Grail Instrument,almost regularly!...AND this is only my opinion.

    I"m thinking "Wine" and the different aspects of a particular Vinter's approach,with the same grape variety!Another grower,might be superb,but it can,and will be very different!.....

  Ok,Ray,Zohn(true story,btw)...I'd recently wanted a nice Shiraz,and had been buying very nice Australian bottles for little money,over a few months.Saw some nice Shiraz from South Africa(guess who I thought of,and dedicated the bottle to?)so I made my move(it was on sale).....
"
  Totally different from what I'd gotten used to,and absolutely superb....but "different",really different!!....Like Martin,Larri,or a host of other gits.....THAT"S the fun of it for me!....Sound!!...Tone,timbre,definition,articulation,even smell.What can I say?I know I'm nuts rolleye

   Best to all

  Btw....RAY....THAT Bearclaw is GORGEOUS!!!It represents(to the n'th degree)what my current "natural top" tastes are these days.I thought "my" Bear Claw'd H&D OM was nice,but compared to "that" top,mine looks about a week old in aging of the Spruce.Sheesh,no matter how far one goes,there is always another dimension.Gotta love it.....Btw,I'm still waiting for "Part II". whistling

MagicT,

Like you, I just love everything about good guitars (again a subjective issue). There is no "holy grail" in my book, because each guitar in my stable has a magic quality to it that is not evident in the others. But, they all have a degree of magic. When I'm playing and want rich overtones and a piano like quality, I reach for my Goodall, dry & vintage, my Mcknight, focused, clear and rich, my Eichelbaum.

I'm really excited to get the all hog Forum III

Listen, it's ALL GOOD, toner, clear or bearclaw.

  ~ Ray ~

PS. Part II will arrive!! 


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Mcknight Slope Dred ~ '59 bearclaw Sitka / Wavy African Mahogany
Eichelbaum OM ~ Euro Spruce / Brazilian Rosewood
Martin 000-18 Norman Blake
Larrivee Forum III ~ All Hog
magictwanger
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« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2009, 05:05:02 PM »

"P.S." Part II wil arrive"...

  I've ginda given up...almost. Not that I could blame you....

  Btw Ray,your stable needs little more.You seem to have all the bases covered.....
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