Rank beginner question about alternate tunings.

Started by strawintogold, January 21, 2009, 10:50:44 AM

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It's OK, you can laugh, i can't hear you. And no, I don't mean stinky.

So you go a step down or tune alternately (which is not my business I think people should make their own lifestyle choices) but then where do you go? Say I've tuned the E to a D, right? Doesn't that change the makeup of the notes on the string? Alter chords? Send the universe into an ever widening spiral?

Would you be playing only songs done in an alternate tuning, avoiding aforemention universal spiraling? But then you have a 12 string that is tuned down a step, right? But is that to compensate for the makeup of the guitar? Meaning, would you be shooting for a standard E but with a 12 string sound?

holly
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Holly,
I've read some of your other posts! Rank beginner? I don't think so.
fred
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Quote from: strawintogold on January 21, 2009, 10:50:44 AM
Say I've tuned the E to a D, right? Doesn't that change the makeup of the notes on the string? Alter chords?

The frets on a guitar designate musical intervals or 'steps'. The only reason the G note is on the 3rd fret of the 6th strings is because the guitar is tuned that way; what you are really playing is a note that is 3 half steps up from the open note. That rule doesn't change when you tune a string down, so when you tune the E string down to D the note played by pressing the 3rd fret is 3 half steps up from D which is a F note. As far as altering chords- the notes are the same but they're in different spots on the fretboard depending how you tuned the guitar. Hope that answers your question.

I think you are making it too complicated. Yes it changes notes and chords. What helps is to really understand how chords are made. Know which notes in the chords are I III V and whatever extensions
may be there. Then when you change tunings you can see whats going on when the notes change position on the fretboard. Study an open E, A and D. The fretted notes are really the same chord shape. You could almost think of the 2nd string as being an alt tuning as the interval to it from 3rd string is different than the rest, so it changes chord shape. The fretted notes on those chords are all V-I-III from low to high. See what the 2nd string does to change shape? It's kinda the same with alt tunings. There's a part in the 3rd's and beyond thread that explains that. So if you lower a string a half step, you half to play it a half step higher to get the same note. Just like what 2nd string does. Look at that.
That combined with some experimenting , memorization and practice, you are on your way. Many alt tuninging are geared toward playing in certain keys. Find the key that it real happy in and chords shouldn't be finger busters.
Start with dropped D and learn songs out of D. You can drop the 6th or the first string. I like to drop both.
I found learning other instruments like mandolin, helps you see how chords are made compared to guitar, and opens eyes some to tuning guitar differently. Good luck. There are some sweet sounds to be had and often playing alt tunings is easier than standard, once you get over the brain blocking.
Tuning everything down a half step changes nothing but they key. Capo will fix that.

10-1614 more than a number, it's body and soul.

i've seen a guy in town here who cuts the rubber away on a capo so that it only barres the top four strings.

he's already playing in slack keys and when he capos he's got the wide wide range with those bottom strings open.

plus it's an seamless, instant new tuning in performance

My recommendation would be to learn everything you can about standard tuning. Then experiment with a capo playing with someone else. If you don't have anyone else to play with thats okay, just take a song that you know without the capo and learn to play it in the same key but with a capo. In other words if you played ------     
                      a D chord in the open position and then capoed on the third fret, that same fingering would now give you a F chord
                      a E chord in the open position and then capoed on the third fret, that same fingering would now give you a G chord
                      a G chord in the open position and then capoed on the third fret, that same fingering would now give you a Bb chord
                      a A chord in the open position and then capoed on the third fret, that same fingering would now give you a C chord
                      a C chord in the open position and then capoed on the third fret, that same fingering would now give you a Eb chord


                      a D chord in the open position and then capoed on the second fret, that same fingering would now give you a E chord
                      a E chord in the open position and then capoed on the second fret, that same fingering would now give you a F# chord
                      a G chord in the open position and then capoed on the second fret, that same fingering would now give you a A chord
                      a A chord in the open position and then capoed on the second fret, that same fingering would now give you a B chord
                      a C chord in the open position and then capoed on the second fret, that same fingering would now give you a D chord

This will allow you to play the same chords with different voicings, so if you do play with someone else you can both play the same thing but it will sound different.

It will also give you the opportunity to learn more of the fretboard without really realizing your learning.

Then when you know what you are doing in standard tuning you can move on to alternate tunings with much greater ease.

YMMV
Roger


"Live simply so that others may simply live"

Good advice given, don't have a lot to add, but have played often in open tunings and always had fun (but now pretty much limit myself to standard, drop D and open D and G).

If you only change a few strings (like DADGAD), much of the guitar remains the same, just the streches on the altered strings become higher (like Flatlander has pointed out). But it's funnest to take advantage of what becomes easier, not what's more difficult (like extra-long streches). Fretting an actual G or C chord in DADGAD is possible, of course, but open strings in a tuning like that gives you a different sound which makes altered tunings so nice.

I'd say, to try out some different tunings, either look up something like "dadgad" or "open G" tabs, and try a couple tunes. There's lots on the internet. Otherwise, just tune it differently and try some picking patterns out and see what happens. You might break a string or two going back to standard, but sometimes it's just fun trying something else.

And as to tuning one or two steps down, lots of people do it. If you have a low voice, for example, you might want to tune down a little to suit your range better. As long as the guitar is tuned by the same intervals, it doesn't really matter if you're at concert pitch or not. I've had my guitar tuned half a step down now for a few weeks, just for a little different sound (and feel, the tension is less).

You guys are seriously awesome. I know sometimes you take the time to type stuff and it just goes off into the ether but this whole thread is getting printed.

holly
"Needs more cowbell."

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As much fun as I (now) have in DADGAD, I agree w/Mr.LV, do the capo thing and learn where standard chords and barre chords are similar and different.  Because altered tunings have different (finger) forms, you might "blow a gasket" with memory storage--and if you're navigating that spiralling universe, well we cant have non'o'that!  :wink:
There are plenty of really cool drone chords/jazz chords, etc. in standard--and then capoed sound entirely "new."

Holly: LV19 is right and his chart is a really good reference piece.

If you are fearless and still want to know about open tunings read on:

If you tune your guitar to an Open G, when you strum without fretting it will sound like a G chord (Open C sounds like a C chord) and so on. Here is an instrumental song (On the Sunny Side of the Ocean) that's played in Open G (also called Spanish Tuning) by John Fahey that will show you how full and rich open tunings are and the possibilities that await you. You will also notice that he is only using a couple of fingers to make the chord changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYDrkG2EGwg

As flatlander said, I would try this out on a six string first using dropped D (Tuning your bass string from E down to D) to get a feel for it and believe me, if I can do it anyone can do it.

Everything said is spot on.BUT if you enjoy insanity{which I do} I once read that David Crosby would just tune the strings to what every sounded cool and make up his own cords and write a song,I believe he taught Joni Mitchell this technic also.If you want to check out some great tunings there is a record labal I think its called black cat and check out Hawian slack key tunings,Great Fun.Myself I seem to be stuck in a tuning called DADDAD so much fun.Check out Richie Havens also.Have fun and explore and enjoy the insanity and the kaos.






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Quote from: unclrob on January 21, 2009, 08:54:15 PM
Everything said is spot on.BUT if you enjoy insanity{which I do} I once read that David Crosby would just tune the strings to what every sounded cool and make up his own cords and write a song,I believe he taught Joni Mitchell this technic also.


A little bit of disorientation is good for creativity. Good for kicking you out of a rut. I know at one point Joni Mitchell couldn't name any of the chords she played.
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