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Author Topic: "shine" A Satin Finish?  (Read 6578 times)
12barBill
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« on: August 12, 2004, 03:28:43 PM »

OK, I'm going to re-enter a prior post as a new thread. I've seen several mentions of semi-glossing a satin finish with some product.

I'm not familiar with doing this and would have great reservations about putting some material on a nice, solid wood guitar - especially the top (soundboard).

What exactly are you using? Does it affect the vibration and resonance of the wood? The thing about the "satin" finish is it's very thin and very light (in weight), resulting in slightly more vibration than a "gloss" finish (thicker and heavier). However, a gloss finish provides more protection.

Just curious as to what you are doing. Could you explain it to me? I will soon have an LV03R and might want to "gloss it up a little". But I also think I might be very afraid to do such a thing as put some other substance over the finish. I kind of "cringe" at the thought.

Dbirchett provided some links - thank you.

I just wanted to generate some discussion on this.        
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samarks
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2004, 09:22:58 PM »

I am glad you brought up the thread.  I had the same thought myself and didn't know where to look.
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2004, 09:48:27 PM »

found this:
http://www.orsino.lunarpages.com/L-01Polish.html
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orsino
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2004, 12:12:00 AM »

....and I'm about to polish my OM-03BW too!
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dbirchett
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2004, 12:56:17 AM »

Quote
....and I'm about to polish my OM-03BW too!
Tom, I really want to see how the grain of the blackwood shines up. Take good pictures and please post the before and after again.

Here is a link from Orsino's website showing how he buffed up his Martin type 15. (Not in the buff although Rob suggested that at one point, raising the collective suspicions of the forum).  afro

http://pub125.ezboard.com/ftheunofficialma...topicID=1.topic
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Don

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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2004, 02:07:55 AM »

Hey Tom started it with a wish to be dress in a kilt with fishnet sticking's and a G string :blink: What do expect from a guy who plays celtic music and is a vegatarian{SP}who wants to buff up his wood,Sheezsh I you think I'm strange. :D  
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samarks
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2004, 02:19:36 AM »

Great links and an inspiring project.  I keep looking at my koa parlor and thinking how great the koa would look polished.

One question for anyone who has done this, what does the guitar feel like waxed?  Is it sticky?

Okay, another question, does rewaxing the top build up and hurt the sound over time?

Thanks for the inspiration!
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dbirchett
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2004, 02:41:29 AM »

Here are some previous threads:

http://www.larriveeforum.com/forums/index....=1390&hl=petros


http://www.larriveeforum.com/forums/index....664&hl=meguiars


http://www.larriveeforum.com/forums/index....734&hl=meguiars

http://www.larriveeforum.com/forums/index....934&hl=meguiars

 
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Don

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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2004, 02:54:06 AM »

Not sticky at all. Smooth.
No buildup and absolutely no change in the sound/tone. You aren't adding much wax back after taking off the satin. I think the taking off of the satin and adding back of wax cancel each other out.
And don't listen to Unclrob......he's been known to wear nothing but an Andy's t-shirt while sitting behind his desk in the shop. :o  
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HangFire
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2004, 03:24:51 AM »

Quote

And don't listen to Unclrob......he's been known to wear nothing but an Andy's t-shirt while sitting behind his desk in the shop. :o
Man, I do NOT need those visuals in my head... :o  :lol:

I'll be buffing out my parlor as soon as I get some time off;-)
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samarks
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2004, 03:31:25 AM »

The same tee-shirt?   :huh:  
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2004, 04:27:35 AM »

Quote
And don't listen to Unclrob......he's been known to wear nothing but an Andy's t-shirt while sitting behind his desk in the shop. :o
You know we're getting a lot more info here than anyone here needs or wants to know.  afro  
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Don

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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2004, 04:46:01 AM »

Bill and Samarks,
I have now done two of my Larrivee satins, as Orsino has, with the latest being the brand new LV-03BW (and a D-03-12).  Nothing but positive to say about doing it.  It is not "sticky" but just like a shine would be of finely polished furniture.  If you have trepidation, do a little on the side--maybe near the end block--and get the feel of it.  The most anxiety inducing part is the 1st step of "stripping" the satin; you wont see anything really come off, but this step prepares the surface for the polish (step 2)--it will look slightly duller. Do put on at least 4 coats of step 2, as you do each, you will see the shine bloom.  Go as far as your arm holds out and then seal with step 3!  It is a job well worth doing!!  B)
I have noticed NO negative affects on sound/performance--and maybe even an improvement, but I know that is just me acclimating to a beautiful new guitar!
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dbirchett
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2004, 05:03:02 AM »

Quote
Bill and Samarks,
I have now done two of my Larrivee satins, as Orsino has, with the latest being the brand new LV-03BW (and a D-03-12).  Nothing but positive to say about doing it.  It is not "sticky" but just like a shine would be of finely polished furniture.  If you have trepidation, do a little on the side--maybe near the end block--and get the feel of it.  The most anxiety inducing part is the 1st step of "stripping" the satin; you wont see anything really come off, but this step prepares the surface for the polish (step 2)--it will look slightly duller. Do put on at least 4 coats of step 2, as you do each, you will see the shine bloom.  Go as far as your arm holds out and then seal with step 3!  It is a job well worth doing!!  B)
I have noticed NO negative affects on sound/performance--and maybe even an improvement, but I know that is just me acclimating to a beautiful new guitar!
So where are the pictures????  B)
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Don

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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2004, 05:13:46 AM »

Yer killin' me Don...
see, there's this room that needed painting, and it is the perfect week to do it, etc. etc., then build the loft bed for the daughter...
and I'm so techno-procrastinationer ( :huh: )
Soon, soon, yep, they're comin'!
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2004, 01:03:27 PM »

:unsure: I don't have a desk,just a bench.......
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12barBill
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2004, 01:30:46 PM »

I don't know guys. Stripping the finish off of the guitar and replacing it with "CAR WAX" ?

I'm sure it may look good, but what about the life of the guitar?

Finishes on "quality" guitars used to be nitrocellulose lacquers but some environmental regulations have limited spraying these chemicals because of releases to the atmosphere. Now many makers are using UV cured polyester urethanes. Some fine classical guitar makers still use the French something or other (I forget the name - it's very light and thin, but more expensive to do).

I don't doubt that the results "look" good on the guitar, but if that was a good way to finish a guitar wouldn't guitar makers use it?

I'm enjoying the discussion and in no way mean to criticize anyone's guitar or their care of it.

But for me personnaly, I can't imagine replacing Larrivee's factory finish with car wax.

This is something I really wish Matthew Larrivee would give some input to.

Mr. Larrivee, I realize you are not obligated to make comments on this forum, but I would greatly appreciate hearing comments from a master guitar builder and luthier such as yourself (with your family heritage, knowledge, and experience) on this subject. If not, I certainly understand.

Bill    
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samarks
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2004, 02:06:20 PM »

I think the comments about 'removing the finish' were a bit misleading.

The first step has a very mild abrasive that polishes the top of the satin finish smooth.  It does remove some of the finish in the process, but does not remove all of the finish, just enough to even out the microscopic landscape that refracts the light unevenly to appear satin.  There is still finish on the guitar.

The French Polish method you mention is an application of shellac and alcohol (with a little oil for lubrication).  It creates a very, very thin finish that requires upkeep.

The reason manufacturers do satin finishes is they are less labor intensive, therefore cheaper.  The reason they spray gloss finishes are the same, it is faster/cheaper than the 4 hours of elbow grease required to buff out a satin finish while providing a higher gloss.
 
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2004, 09:57:24 PM »

Bill,

I identify a lot with your concerns; however, guitar finishes are very similar to automotive finishes. Not relevant here, but Fender's first custom finishes were with automotive paint. May be to this day. If you want to do this but don't want to use car wax, look into the Petros products from Petros guitars (and let me know how they do!).

samarks, thanks for the explanation, it cleared a lot up. I really didn't want to strip the guitar's finish but if I am only doing a two step polish and then wax, that is another story. Thanks for turning the light bulb on.

BTW, Ed Roman recommends against automotive Meguiars. That could cut both ways.
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Don

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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2004, 10:45:00 PM »

For Orsino--
Tom, you did your Maahtin 1st, correct?  How long ago?
The reason I ask , is that I am trying to establish a time line of experience; I have seen NO EFFECT on either the wood or the sound (the D 03-12 was done 6 mos. ago).  But, hey, if you dont want to do it, no biggee.  I like mine--very much!
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