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Author Topic: Yikes! The back is separating on my Koa L09  (Read 4060 times)
flatlander
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« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2008, 06:25:59 PM »


             We don't know all the details, this isn't about "warm fuzzy" in my view. It is more about slamming Larrivee any time the posts are about a repair issue. I do agree about some Warranty repair sites elsewhere, but that's already the case, if the git was bought from a shop that has the ability to do such repars, as far as I know.
             The negative vibes that come out on these threads are why I personally feel like these issues are best resolved between the dealer, yourself and the company.
              There will always be "WHAT IFS" that can be brought up. But if you own a nice git, that means that much to you, why not communicate in every way possible with the dealer, reps, and company. In my case, I have no qualms about booking a flite to go to the factory and talk with folks eye to eye and get something done. I have said that for awhile. And that is what I did.
              If they mean that much to you then I think you would be willing to pay the price to assure that you are doing all you can to move things along.
              I've read in other posts that Martin and other companies take as long as 6 months to get a git back to someone. I really don't know if that is the case though.
              I just don't see a need to second guess all these issues when we really don't know the whole deal. We are reading posts, not looking at the git itself.
              OK no more from me.       Danny
Sorry Danny but since this seemed directed at me I'm gonna respond. This is a forum. the forum home page states it's mission as "a place to discuss all things about larrivee guitars" or something like that. repairs and repair time fall into that category. Also as being a forum it is what it is. This place seems to have responsible post usually so I take them at face value. I'm sure some facts get skewed from time to time, but ...are you saying you doubt the fact that this guitar has already been out 3 months and they told him up to 3 more? I don't even need to know all the facts unless they are going to custom order some  wood from mars. I've seen many guitars repaired including my own as my friend is a builder and repair guy. This separation seems slight and shouldn't take two hours at most to fix including checking and gluing inside bracing if needed. This week between other jobs my guy has ripped the frets out and straightened/sanded the neck/fingerboard, replaced frets, reset neck and made new saddle and dressed frets on a guitar of mine. He'll keep a week longer to make sure every settles in good, then make slight adjustments if needed.  A skilled take could take a guitar apart and put it back together in a lot shorter time than you may think.To me if you have to wait 6 months then they're about 5 months backlogged on repair. Other builders have same problem and I wouldn't like it from any of them. It's a matter of manpower and economics, not excessive time.
  Next which you may disagree but saying "you've done the right thing and are personally happy knowing they will fix the problem"  is warm and fuzzy. Call it what you will.
 Anytime you bring up a problem with guitar and throw it into the public domain for them to wait and see what happens, you've already bucked the system. I'll leave it at that.
 Most people can't and shouldn't have to fly to factory to speed up process. Some people sink every dime they have into nice guitar like I did 28 years ago. I didn't know if I could pay the bills the next week, let alone fly to CA. Communication, yes but it should only have to be simple and I don't think it reflects on some poor boys commitment to guitar if he doesn't know how to push the right buttons or can't fly to factory. AND as part of communication I want to know what's up with it. If nothing else to learn.
 Lastly I don't often hear people doubting all the positive larrivee post by saying something like "well I'd have to hear, see that myself."
 As I've said before, I believe feedback from the customer is always good for the company, be it positive or negative. I'm looking at my precious guitar from my perspective, the customers, not theirs. Bringing up concerns should be good for them. If my new 000-60 had a problem I want it fixed a lot quicker than 6 months. It could behoove us all to push for quick repair times. You never know.
 I have praised and promoted Larrivee way before most people (Canadians possibly excluded) ever heard of them and before some on here were hatched. I've spread the word, I've written them letters of praise, before email was an option, and talked to them on phone thanking them for such a nice instrument back when they would spend 1/2 hour just talking about guitars with you excitedly. I feel well within my rights as a forum member, customer and human being to push them to keep repair time down. It's an important issue, especially if you only have 1 guitar like I did for 25 years.  respectfully
ps care package on way bigrin
 
 
 
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Danny
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« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2008, 07:48:27 PM »

    I was not directing my posts "at you". But at the issue of how to resolve a problem.
I have owned my own business for a very long time. If someone has an issue with my products or service I need them to tell me and I will take care of it. My statements about "eye to eye" are how I truly deal with things that matter to me. You and everyone else can do whatever you want to.
   I will say part of your statement above should be sent to Larrivee or both the dealer and Larrivee. I think you have a genuine problem and I don't think you are lying or whatever. I just think you are needing to talk to them. Do you need their phone number? Or e-mail? I really would like to help , not play devil's advocate here.
                                        Danny
Matt I just realised, that was you, not the fellow who started the thread. blush   I really will stop here now, apparently I'm not to good at this.
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flatlander
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« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2008, 08:24:34 PM »

naw, Gevins has said very little. I just think this is an issue that should concern anybody who has a guitar under warrenty.
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Flake
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« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 01:16:59 AM »



Is this typical of turnaround time for Larrivee? I hope not.
I hope not too.  My SD50 had to go in for the dreaded slightly-miscut-fretboard and a neckset.  I am wondering two things
A-what is the typical turnaround time for warranty repairs?
B-should dealers be alerted to check the 12 fret models prior to being sold to customers? 
.........and just to satisfy anyone thinking I am jumping too hard or fast-I HAVE communicated with both the music store and Oxnard multiple times.  I am starting to wonder the same things as Flatlander and Hadden.  Just as no one is upset when the praises of Larrivee' are sung (and rightly so) it ought to be the same level playing field when legitimate concerns are voiced. 
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Steve
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2008, 03:56:08 AM »

Hi folks.

Thought I might give you an update on my L-09 K saga.  Guitar was shipped to Larrivee and I received an email that it could take five to six months before I get it back.  Evidently Jean is going to take a look at it himself, but it has already been three months since my guitar left my home.  Fairly disheartening.

In response to the last post, I keep my guitar room at between 45 and 50% humidity.

I can't believe that Larrivee would tell you it will be 5~6 months more to get your guitar fixed.  I have never heard of this kind of time line in any Larrivee repair.  That being said if you had a Martin guitar I would say this amount of time would be about right.  Many guitar manufactures take many months for repairs.  Larrivee has always been stellar for turn around times.

Before you all start bashing Larrivee here I ask you to remember that we are only hearing one side of the story.  There could be many factors involved in this repair, including when exactly this guitar was shipped to the factory, dealer involvement, repair material availability, etc.  Please reserve your negative comments as they are based on pure conjecture as we would need to know what Larrivee has to say to make an accurate statement.

 bigrin
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2008, 04:49:30 AM »

I can't believe that Larrivee would tell you it will be 5~6 months more to get your guitar fixed.  I have never heard of this kind of time line in any Larrivee repair.  That being said if you had a Martin guitar I would say this amount of time would be about right.  Many guitar manufactures take many months for repairs.  Larrivee has always been stellar for turn around times.

Before you all start bashing Larrivee here I ask you to remember that we are only hearing one side of the story.  There could be many factors involved in this repair, including when exactly this guitar was shipped to the factory, dealer involvement, repair material availability, etc.  Please reserve your negative comments as they are based on pure conjecture as we would need to know what Larrivee has to say to make an accurate statement.

 bigrin
Steve-
     You are the global moderator.  With respect to that I will stand down and refrain from any post beyond this one regarding the situation of gevans 378.  I am definitely privy to the details of my situation.  No conjecture there.  I do not claim to know gevans 378 well enough to state that I cannot believe him when he says he received the notification he says he did.  That would be pure conjecture on my part and certainly insulting to him. 
     As for the remark about Martin-some would say that was bashing.  You could see where some would wonder why they would be brought in on this.  I have heard it takes a very long time to get something into and back out of the Nazareth factory.  Good thing they have satellite repair centers with certified, authorized repairmen to handle the traffic. 
     I will watch the situation regarding gevan's L9 quietly and mark the calendar to see how long my own situation takes to be resolved.   bigrin
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flatlander
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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2008, 07:09:32 AM »

Are you saying Steve, that as global moderator you want no negitive comments about Larrivee repairs?
Do I also understand correctly that you don't believe Gevans? His posts seemed pretty mellow and the time lines matched up from original post.
And I guess you're idea of bashing is different than mine.
I didn't say too much until somebody called what I thought was pretty mellow "slamming"
As someone who has promoted Larrivee's and talked them up for almost 30 years, that didn't set well with me. I've said plenty of good things about Larrivee.
  I've told on here how they sent me a new inlaid bridge for free even after I told them
it was my fault it split as I forced too wide a saddle in slot. I've told on here how besides that my 1980 L-10 has needed nothing other than 5 or  6 fret jobs. Yea I play hard. ( to anybody who goes thru frets like I do I recommend hardened german stainless steel, the've quadrupled life, a little work to level for tech bigrin) And how it still plays great with great action even with non adjustable truss rod. I'll put my love of my L-10 up against anybodies. I've laughed with it. Had my tears run down it. Had right hand blood sprayed across it (label still has it but it turns black after a while), just stared at it late at night in awe, thanked it for writing so many songs with me and felt the man's spirit oozing out of his creation. The L guitar..............
  BUT when I went to them with problem I have now and got no reply to email sent, and then called them on the phone and did not get the warm and fuzzy I used to get, when I was asking for VERY, in fact VERY, VERY little so I could fix problem myself, well that threw up warning flags to me. I hear a post from what seems to me to be a reasonable person about 6 months for fixed separated back and I'm concerned. For all of us. And I think it's healthy for company to hear feedback. You think they can't handle that?
  Apparently youv'e read post and as global moderator made your decision that posting concerns about cust service or repairs is not acceptable. I accept that and if this is a place for only positive post about Larrivee's then I'm outta here. I can't enjoy conversing if I can't give honest thoughts. i haven't found anything of this world that was perfect yet (me especially included) and my philosphy has always been, since I was a teenager, to discuss issues openly. Communication is good. Bring up things be they good or bad and talk about them.  Don't let them fester. It appears that philophy does not fit here.
 I enjoyed this place as a place to learn and to share the things I've learned and dug out after 35 years of playing. Especially hoping younger folks could pick up on things that I learned the hard way.
  I'll leave you with this and hope that some of you get what I have out of my Larrivee.
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=21815.msg191496#msg191496
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olchip
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2008, 05:18:47 PM »

Fixing a crack is not major surgery, and doesn't take more than a glance to decide on the issues involved. I mean, the 12th Fret has this fix listed at $75. Way to long for this to get resolved.
ahum, yes it is a long time,yet....Remember if it's the wood that didn't glue correctly, it may involve:
1. dropping the back off the guitar, usually means routing your way around the purfling and depending on the technique used removing completely the varnish.
At this stage, usually, the guitar (top and sides) is placed in a mould with bars inside so that nothing warps or goes anywhere (prevent the sides from collapsing) while the back is being worked on, the mould has to match the instrument as precisely as possible (I suspect that most guitars after a few sets of strings and gigs will no longer fit well enough the mould they were made in)
2. removing the back braces and the  back seam, preferably without damaging the back  rolleye
3. Separate cleanly the 2 pieces
4. resand, clean and glue the 2 pieces back together and properly, i.e. making sure it doesn't warp or shrink in the process, otherwise, you've got to build another entire back altogether, with a different sound as a result. Remember that you're now glueing two pieces that are no longer rectangular and the side pressure has to be evenly put on the entire seam
5. glue in a new back seam and the braces
6. Put the back in place and the purfling
7. revarnish the instrument
8. let it sit strung a while to see if everything's ok before deciding to ship it back.

And all the while running operations on the factory level... For obvious reasons, stopping or slowing operations down for one guitar is not a good idea, better go slowly on the one guitar and do a good job on both fronts.

Look at the good side of things: would you rather get your guitar back 4 weeks later, only to find out they had done a sloppy job on it? Five months means they're gonna take the time to do things right, a bummer for you in the meantime, sure, but a guitar isn't a "normal" manufactured product... And this isn't just A guitar...It's a "larrivée"  ok, ok, maybe I'm pushing it on this last one, but I couldn't help!  :
Just don't vent your frustration on all these donuts you're seeing on this site in the time...
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gevans378
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 01:34:28 AM »

Steve.

Would you like me to forward the email I received from Larrivee? I too read your post as a question of my character.  Not the kind of post I would expect from a moderator.

It has been interesting for me to go through the responses to my original post.  Obviously, I touched a nerve.

I thought I had been relatively careful with the wording of my posts.  I really like my L-09K and would like to have it back properly repaired.  I have owned several Larrivees over the years but have never had to deal with a warranty issue.  As I indicated earlier, I was very surprised at the response I received.  I went out and purchased a replacement guitar on the basis that I was told by Larrivee that it could be five to six months before my L-09k was returned to me.  They did not necessarily say that it would take that long, but that repairs of the kind that my guitar needed could take up to five or six months. 

I was told that Jean would need to take a look at my guitar.  I happened to be at Winfield this weekend and met Corey, the sales rep (he seems like a really good guy).  He was under the impression that my guitar was repaired and was being returned to me, but was unable to tell me anything definitive.  My local Larrivee dealer knew nothing about it when I asked about it today.  Hopefully it is on its way back. 

I think my issue with all of this is the complete lack of communication.  If the repair takes five to six months, so be it.  I just wish someone would let me know what is going on.

I too run a business.  I know what it it like to be busy and to have a difficult time keeping up with various demands.  I've sent enough emails and called my dealer enough that I don't feel it is too much to ask for someone to get back to me on the status of my guitar.
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Danny
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2008, 01:50:11 AM »

Steve.

Would you like me to forward the email I received from Larrivee? I too read your post as a question of my character.  Not the kind of post I would expect from a moderator.

It has been interesting for me to go through the responses to my original post.  Obviously, I touched a nerve.

I thought I had been relatively careful with the wording of my posts.  I really like my L-09K and would like to have it back properly repaired.  I have owned several Larrivees over the years but have never had to deal with a warranty issue.  As I indicated earlier, I was very surprised at the response I received.  I went out and purchased a replacement guitar on the basis that I was told by Larrivee that it could be five to six months before my L-09k was returned to me.  They did not necessarily say that it would take that long, but that repairs of the kind that my guitar needed could take up to five or six months. 

I was told that Jean would need to take a look at my guitar.  I happened to be at Winfield this weekend and met Corey, the sales rep (he seems like a really good guy).  He was under the impression that my guitar was repaired and was being returned to me, but was unable to tell me anything definitive.  My local Larrivee dealer knew nothing about it when I asked about it today.  Hopefully it is on its way back. 

I think my issue with all of this is the complete lack of communication.  If the repair takes five to six months, so be it.  I just wish someone would let me know what is going on.

I too run a business.  I know what it it like to be busy and to have a difficult time keeping up with various demands.  I've sent enough emails and called my dealer enough that I don't feel it is too much to ask for someone to get back to me on the status of my guitar.
              Hi, I don't know you and you don't know me. I'm Danny. I posted in your thread in my typical, shoot from the hip style. I think all I did was add to some raw nerve feelings.
              This issue has cost the forum a very good member and I think he will be missed here. This issue also may have caused some ill feelings unnecessarily.
              I don't question your character and I truly doubt that Steve does.


                        I hope you get your guitar back very soon in great condition. It sounds like a very nice guitar.
 Please let us all know how this turns out. Thanks,  Danny
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« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2008, 02:05:28 AM »

Let me jump in for Steve. Steve was not questioning anyones' character (I don't think).

If we lost a member over this, its a shame.

However, there was some conjecturing going on (not by you) and statements in this thread that might negatively affect a potential Larrivee buyer away from an otherwise fine guitar they were considering.

I've met Jean and spoken with Matthew several times, and have the highest regard for their desire to do right by those who choose to play a Larrivee guitar.

When there is a problem with an instrument, they want to resolve the issue. However, I believe that they (and we) want them to learn from each and every problem (like yours) such that overall quality is improved where ever possible.

A good dealer will inspect every instrument before its shown/sold to a customer and the dealer should resolve issues transparently to us whenever possible.

The post by olchip  explains well my thoughts on why it might take longer than a few hours to properly resolve your problem, and allow Larrivee to learn from the experience. I don't need to add anything there.

yes, good communication goes a long way towards keeping an issue from becoming a problem, and it sounds like there's a lesson to be learned there.

my 2cents worth (2cents is worth less and less every day it would seem)  
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« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2008, 02:54:03 AM »

Randy I think this is the post you were refering to and not haddens.

Yes. I'll edit my post to correct that.
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gevans378
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2008, 03:38:11 PM »

Hi folks.

I wanted to let people know that I received my guitar back yesterday.  The repair work was beautifully done.  It took awhile to figure out what had happened, but, evidently, a former employee put the guitar in a place that it should not have been.  I was contacted by Greg Warner, and once he became involved, everything went extremely smoothly and his communication with me was terrific. 

It is unfortunate that it took until November to finally get it back, but Greg assured me that he is taking steps to ensure that what happened to me does not happen again.

Just thought people might like to know.

Greg
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2008, 04:02:54 PM »

I can't believe that Larrivee would tell you it will be 5~6 months more to get your guitar fixed.  I have never heard of this kind of time line in any Larrivee repair. 
 bigrin
June-November  5 months.
Glad guitar is back and in good shape.
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 04:34:52 PM »

Glad she's home again. How does that koa sound? I love my koa dread.
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