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Author Topic: Just plugged my D-03 into my new PA...hmmmm  (Read 1643 times)
teachingking
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« on: April 03, 2007, 04:18:15 PM »

Need some help here.  I have recently developed the need for a small PA system to use for practice as well as in small venues (coffee shops, art galleries, etc..).  After doing a little research on the web, I decided to purchase a couple of Active Behringer B212A Loudspeakers (450W) to pair with an old Mackie 1202VLZ Pro I had lying around.  This seemed the most cost effective solution and would provide enough power to move into medium sized venues if necessary.  My D-03 is equipped with a K&K PWM and has always sounded really nice through my Marshall AS100D, which I sold to purchase the B212As.  Long story short, the D-03 does not sound nearly as good plugged into the Mackie>B212As.  At lower volumes it's OK, but as the volume increases, so does this sterile, midrangy thwacky quality.  It's not warm or natural sounding.  So, my question is, did I totally blow it with the purchase or can this easily be solved by addding another piece such as the Para DI?   Any suggestions would be appreciated.

P.S. I bought the B212As from Musicians Friend so they can be returned if necessary.
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Denis
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 07:28:40 PM »

Need some help here.  I have recently developed the need for a small PA system to use for practice as well as in small venues (coffee shops, art galleries, etc..).  After doing a little research on the web, I decided to purchase a couple of Active Behringer B212A Loudspeakers (450W) to pair with an old Mackie 1202VLZ Pro I had lying around.  This seemed the most cost effective solution and would provide enough power to move into medium sized venues if necessary.  My D-03 is equipped with a K&K PWM and has always sounded really nice through my Marshall AS100D, which I sold to purchase the B212As.  Long story short, the D-03 does not sound nearly as good plugged into the Mackie>B212As.  At lower volumes it's OK, but as the volume increases, so does this sterile, midrangy thwacky quality.  It's not warm or natural sounding.  So, my question is, did I totally blow it with the purchase or can this easily be solved by addding another piece such as the Para DI?   Any suggestions would be appreciated.

P.S. I bought the B212As from Musicians Friend so they can be returned if necessary.

I've got K&K's in both my guitars and if mids are the problem, then roll back on the mids.  I remember reading that here in a thread a few months back.  I think dberch mentioned that.
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dberch
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 08:11:10 PM »

I've got K&K's in both my guitars and if mids are the problem, then roll back on the mids.  I remember reading that here in a thread a few months back.  I think dberch mentioned that.
Yes, try rolling back the mids and see if that helps. 

Do you have manual for your Mackie.  Make sure you read up on level setting and the Trim control.  Those are vital to getting good acoustic tone.

Check to see if you have the channel pre-amp (gain) turned up too high.  The channal gain is the one labeld Trim up by the XLR input jack. If turned up too high, it can cause distortion and unnatrual sound.  Turn it down all the way and see if that helps.  If signal is too week turn it up gradually

Also, your Marshall amp my have been a better match for the passive K&K.  Through the PA you may need to use an acoustic guitar preamp. Especially if you used the tape instead of  superglue for installation.  If you know anyone with a K&K preamp or even a Baggs Para DI, see if you can borrow one and give it a try.


Let us know what you find out.

David
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teachingking
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2007, 05:21:10 PM »

Thanks guys.  I have a K&K Pure preamp on the way.  I'll let you know if that helps.
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AtlasHeating
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 01:40:40 PM »

You might want some reverb. Oftentimes the acoustic amps have a whole bunch of really nice effects that can warm up the tone. I think the KKK sounds better with a preamp. I didn't like mine at all until I started using a preamp/direct box.
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flatlander
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 04:01:37 PM »

Thanks guys.  I have a K&K Pure preamp on the way.  I'll let you know if that helps.
I was gonna say, even with the vast inprovements in pickups over last 20 years, I always had to use some kind of preamp. What I've done for a long time now is use a samll fender amp that has line out (or preamp out?) and put that into PA. Plus amp still has speaker output so It gives BIG and spread out sound) Small gigs I just use twin reverb. Guitar in normal and vocal in reverb chan.
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el guitana
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 04:51:07 PM »

Thanks guys.  I have a K&K Pure preamp on the way.  I'll let you know if that helps.

I would have suggested this. I use the Baggs PADI - works nice, but the K&K might be easier since the impedance matches already. Let us know hoe it goes.
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AcousTronic
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 08:56:36 PM »

Don't know if your budget can handle it, but one of these babies in the signal chain might make a world of difference!!  http://www.fishmanaura.com/

You said you sounded better when plugged into a guitar amp, so maybe the PA needs something more guitar capable?
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 12:09:42 AM »

Need some help here.  I have recently developed the need for a small PA system to use for practice as well as in small venues (coffee shops, art galleries, etc..).  After doing a little research on the web, I decided to purchase a couple of Active Behringer B212A Loudspeakers (450W) to pair with an old Mackie 1202VLZ Pro I had lying around.  This seemed the most cost effective solution and would provide enough power to move into medium sized venues if necessary.  My D-03 is equipped with a K&K PWM and has always sounded really nice through my Marshall AS100D, which I sold to purchase the B212As.  Long story short, the D-03 does not sound nearly as good plugged into the Mackie>B212As.  At lower volumes it's OK, but as the volume increases, so does this sterile, midrangy thwacky quality.  It's not warm or natural sounding.  So, my question is, did I totally blow it with the purchase or can this easily be solved by addding another piece such as the Para DI?   Any suggestions would be appreciated.

P.S. I bought the B212As from Musicians Friend so they can be returned if necessary.

Your problem is twofold, and no one yet has fully mentioned them.  You have both (i) a level mismatch and (ii) an impedance mismatch between your pickup output and your mixer input.  The Mackie mixer does not have an appropriate input for a high impedance, low level signal like the K&K pickup's output.  The simplest fix is to add a DI (direct injection) box inbetween.  That will fix both problems.  You then run a XLR to XLR cable from the DI to the mic pre input in one of the channels on the mixer.  Adding a K&K preamp inbetween the two will likely work too, although you should to run into a line in level input on the Mackie.  Adding another preamp stage and another eq into your signal path may improve things, then again they may not.  You'll have to try that one out
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dberch
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 03:09:41 PM »

Thanks guys.  I have a K&K Pure preamp on the way.  I'll let you know if that helps.
Did it help?
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2007, 01:15:59 AM »

Mackie VLZ series mixers have very nice and clean preamps.  Since you didn't complain about the level being low- the mackie preamp had enough gain to make your signal audible.   I will go against the grain here and predict that you quite possibly wasted that money on the K+K preamp. 

The Pure preamp has a 3 band EQ with these specs:  The bass control is set to roll of at 100Hz, the midrange at 1.5kHz with extra large bandwidth and the treble are set at 10kHz.

The Mackie 1202 VLZ channel EQ has these specs:

3-Band EQ (12kHz, 2.5kHz, 80Hz)

Did you try messing around with the EQ on the Mackie?

If it were me, I would send the K+K back and get an outboard EQ to use on the inserts with the 1202.

Sweetwater.com has several 2/3 and 1/3 octave graphic EQs for under $150.

Sorry to bear perhaps bad news.

-Scott
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2007, 02:04:04 AM »

Acoustic guitars are plenty midrangy and require no boost in that frequency. I generally dial it out completely. Anyway start with none and see if you need any then if necessary you can add sparingly to taste. 
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Tycho
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2007, 02:21:53 AM »

That's a good tip.
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