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Author Topic: Climate Affected Fnish Issues with my Larrivee D-09B  (Read 17222 times)
hatofthecat
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« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2007, 10:51:19 PM »

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  Let's see.., I've got a guitar with the ebony block forcible removed from it and a well-known Larrivee rep didn't know that was a solid ebony block that was glued there??? He thought it was a company sticker glued there? A major Larrivee rep?

I'm not the least surprised that any given rep doesn't know his product "inside out"...    but that ebony/label thing is in every Larrivee, even my satin rosewood parlor has one (do they make a "barn door" electronics that would even fit such a small space??)  This really sounds like a guitar that has been "buggered about" by some idiot who took a dislike to that "funny black square" and decided to pull it off only to find it was somewhat more securely attached than they expected.  The lack of an original case smacks of a lack of care of the instrument..... the guitar came with one.... what happened to it ??.....alarm bells ringing .....  Factory second ? I think pretty unlikely... to excess heat, innappropriate polish or other reactive chemical seems far more likely.  I have to wonder what kind of "collector" would buy a guitar with a flawed finish in the first place ????

Pete
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Sterling30
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« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2007, 03:25:33 AM »


   Again, there has to be some way Larrivee would mark a 2nd quality guitar.., if it turns out it is in fact on the ebony block I would say we have a guilty verdict because it just doesn't seem reasonable that they do in fact send their factory seconds to dealers and leave it to their discretion whether or not the customer will be informed of what they are buying.

   And there was no surface marring on the outside at all, just alot of glue on the inside that I didn't know why it was there and I was worried it could become problematic at some point in the future, you would think the tech should have known that ebony block was there. And removing the glue shouldn't have been a major problem at all but someone only wanted that block out and nothing more.

   Kirk will get all his money back, I'll back Larrivee's product though they will not and I imagine I'll have speak to an attorney and see where I go from here. If it turns out this is a factory second that was concealed from me when I bought this guitar they may get a promotional campaign they will not like if they don't make this guitar right..
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Tycho
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« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2007, 03:49:04 AM »

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if it turns out it is in fact on the ebony block I would say we have a guilty verdict because it just doesn't seem reasonable that they do in fact send their factory seconds to dealers and leave it to their discretion whether or not the customer will be informed of what they are buying.

That is patently absurd.  You're adding 2+2 and getting 7. 
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2007, 04:07:05 AM »

Orange peel all over a guitar is not a 'factory 2nd' that would be more like a 'factory 10th'.

 Larrivee didn't send out a guitar with a finish that bad.
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Sterling30
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« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2007, 06:35:09 AM »

Orange peel all over a guitar is not a 'factory 2nd' that would be more like a 'factory 10th'.

 Larrivee didn't send out a guitar with a finish that bad.

   There had to be some logical reason why the ebony plate was removed from the inside of that guitar and the bulk of the glue holding it was left behind,,
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Tycho
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« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2007, 10:51:01 AM »

But even assuming that's correct -- and I don't think you've persuaded anyone here of that -- that still doesn't mean it was Larrivee that removed it.  As I said above, you seem to be ignoring obvious scenarios in favour of improbable ones. It's as though you would rather blame Larrivee than consider the more likely scenario that this happened after the guitar left the factory.
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Sterling30
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« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2007, 01:36:25 PM »

But even assuming that's correct -- and I don't think you've persuaded anyone here of that -- that still doesn't mean it was Larrivee that removed it.  As I said above, you seem to be ignoring obvious scenarios in favour of improbable ones. It's as though you would rather blame Larrivee than consider the more likely scenario that this happened after the guitar left the factory.

   Fine then. Either Larrivee or the dealer it was originally sent to removed it. For now all I need to know is why it was removed.
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2007, 01:56:02 PM »

   There had to be some logical reason why the ebony plate was removed from the inside of that guitar and the bulk of the glue holding it was left behind,,

I guess you'd probably have to ask the same guy who replaced the original case.

The ebony plate would not have been where Larrivee marked guitars as blems because:
1) what about guitars that came with electronics installed in the factory?

2) that is the only spot on the guitar that is designated to be cut out.

I don't think Larrivee marked their blems and they certainly didn't put it on a patch that was meant to be removed. You might be able to call Larrivee and give them the serial number to see if it is a blem. They may have that on record.
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Tycho
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« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2007, 05:56:04 PM »

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Fine then. Either Larrivee or the dealer it was originally sent to removed it. For now all I need to know is why it was removed.

No, there's another possibility; the guy who had it for seven years.
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Denis
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« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2007, 06:49:50 PM »

No, there's another possibility; the guy who had it for seven years.

How do we know it wasn't several owners?   7 years is a long time...just ask fitness1...he's gone through more guitars in the last 18 months than I've gone through in my whole life!!!!
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Tycho
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« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2007, 06:58:35 PM »

Well, I would give the benefit of the doubt to the claim that it was only owned by one guy.  I'd even give the benefit of the doubt to the claim that he never played it.  What I'm less inclined to believe is that he stored it properly or that he never tinkered with it.  The disappearance of the original case is a huge red flag.

I mean, consider.  You don't just take a Larrivee from its proper case and put it in a Takamine case.  It's reasonable to conclude that there was some period of time in which this guitar wasn't in a case at all.  Or alternatively, maybe its original case has damage that would serve as evidence that something bad happened to the guitar, so somewhere along the line (perhaps when he wanted to sell it?) someone got rid of the original case.

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Peter Cree
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« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2007, 08:11:51 PM »

Larrivee would also confirm the serial number.  If its a second, they would know.
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Peter
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sparkysings
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« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2007, 02:09:24 AM »

I have made several enquiries of Larrivee regarding this guitar. Once before I purchased it and several times in regard to the finish when I received it. On all three occasions I submitted the serial number and there was no mention of it being a 2nd. On my first enquiry they did tell me that indeed it was a Brazilian, what Dealer it was sent to and that it was put together in July/August 1999.

On my 2nd enquiry I was told that it never would have left the factory that way and that it was a storage issue. This was contrary to what I was told by John Sharples at Sled Dog Music, a long time Larrivee Dealer and well respected repair person in Winnipeg. He immediately identified it as "orange peel" which was a term totally foreign to me. He further stated that this type of effect could only occur at the factory.

Thus began my oddessy with the Larrivee forum to identify exactly what is wrong.

My 3rd contact with Larrivee resulted in them saying that I can send it back to have it assessed at my expense, as they could not identify the exact problem from the pictures I sent  and if it is a warranty issue, they will fix it and return it at their cost. If not, and should I decide not to fix it, it will be returned at my expense. As I am not the original owner, having it covered under warranty is unlikely.

I'm a little dizzy from all this round and round, but thanks for all the input and suggestions everyone.
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Sparkysings

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jimmy buffett
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« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2007, 01:16:58 PM »

The disappearance of the original case is a huge red flag.

I mean, consider.  You don't just take a Larrivee from its proper case and put it in a Takamine case.  It's reasonable to conclude that there was some period of time in which this guitar wasn't in a case at all.  Or alternatively, maybe its original case has damage that would serve as evidence that something bad happened to the guitar, so somewhere along the line (perhaps when he wanted to sell it?) someone got rid of the original case.

Seems to me that this is central as to how a quality, one owner guitar that was never played, somehow ends up in this condition...

jimmy
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bhika
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« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2007, 01:22:18 PM »

I have made several enquiries of Larrivee regarding this guitar. Once before I purchased it and several times in regard to the finish when I received it. On all three occasions I submitted the serial number and there was no mention of it being a 2nd. On my first enquiry they did tell me that indeed it was a Brazilian, what Dealer it was sent to and that it was put together in July/August 1999.

On my 2nd enquiry I was told that it never would have left the factory that way and that it was a storage issue. This was contrary to what I was told by John Sharples at Sled Dog Music, a long time Larrivee Dealer and well respected repair person in Winnipeg. He immediately identified it as "orange peel" which was a term totally foreign to me. He further stated that this type of effect could only occur at the factory.

Thus began my oddessy with the Larrivee forum to identify exactly what is wrong.

My 3rd contact with Larrivee resulted in them saying that I can send it back to have it assessed at my expense, as they could not identify the exact problem from the pictures I sent  and if it is a warranty issue, they will fix it and return it at their cost. If not, and should I decide not to fix it, it will be returned at my expense. As I am not the original owner, having it covered under warranty is unlikely.

I'm a little dizzy from all this round and round, but thanks for all the input and suggestions everyone.

Larrivee customer service is very good, and there is more then one example in past Forum threads were people who were not the original owners stil had their guitars, IF deemed a warranty issue,  repaired at no cost. It sounds like that is what they are offering you.
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jeff

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« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2007, 02:31:43 PM »

I think I would definitely take Larrivee up on the offer of sending it to them for an evaluation of the problem.  From what I know of the company they are craftsmen, and would not want anything to blemish their reputation.  In the end their good name is very valuable to them, and I suspect they are following this with interest, and would as others have suggested "make it right" for you.  As a business owner myself, you never want a dissatisfied customer if you can avoid it.  I hope you get your problem solved. 
Clifford
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Clifford

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« Reply #76 on: June 16, 2007, 03:07:54 AM »

Anyone else consider the possibility that the guitar was stolen at one time?  It might explain the missing original case and poor storage conditions that led to the finish problem.  The thief may have removed the label hoping to hide the fact it was stolen when he/she went to sell it. 
Just a thought....
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Sterling30
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« Reply #77 on: June 16, 2007, 07:05:28 AM »

Anyone else consider the possibility that the guitar was stolen at one time?  It might explain the missing original case and poor storage conditions that led to the finish problem.  The thief may have removed the label hoping to hide the fact it was stolen when he/she went to sell it. 
Just a thought....

   According to the place I bought it from, they had originally sold  the guitar to an "invester" who traded it back in 7 years later which made me the 2nd owner. Recent inquiries about the missing case or who originally owned the guitar have gone unanswered.
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Peter Cree
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« Reply #78 on: June 16, 2007, 12:28:52 PM »

And with good reason.  The dealer seems to be the hub of this problem.  Wrong case for a 6000.00 dollar guitar?   And a finish problem that you didn't pick up on even though it stuck out like dogs b.....'s.    He saw a sucker for a quick buck.   Thats certainly not Larrivees fault.

No one would have purchased this guitar in that condition especially a "collector".   

Face it.  You purchased a 6000 dollar guitar only because it was Braz.  (endangered species) and didn't know enough about guitars to pick up on this horror.  Since you insist on pointing fingers,  i think you should begin with yourself here.  You blew it.  Made a bad investment with a dishonest dealer.

So if you'd rather blow all this hot air over a patch that has NO bearing on this, than repair and get on with it, then its likely due to you not blaming the person responsible for you having this guitar and problem.  You.

Now you want to have a little crusade over seconds................................
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Peter
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Tycho
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« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2007, 01:44:15 PM »

Peter, all of that sounds pretty much correct to me, but what do you make of the comments of the dealer/repair person who told Sparkysings that this could have only happened at the factory?
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