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Author Topic: Climate Affected Fnish Issues with my Larrivee D-09B  (Read 17201 times)
sparkysings
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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2007, 08:08:09 PM »

Thanks for posting the pictures Greg. It is very difficult to photograph a high gloss finish and capture the surface imperfections, so I have done the best I can. The entire guitar, with the exception of the neck is covered with these little bumps, or orange peel effect. Although difficult to photograph, it is easily seen in real time. The reason the light reflects like that is it is reflecting off a surface that is not smooth. I have other shots of the top, which also shows this effect.

Thanks for your comments Peter. I will try to take some other pictures and send them to you as I still can't seem to grasp how to post photos. The case is clean and I cannot see how the case could be responsible, but what do I know? I personally had never heard of "orange peel", until I received this guitar. John Sharples of Sled Dog Music called it that, but whether it is "orange peel" or a sealer problem the effect ion the guitar is real.

This is a beautiful guitar and although 8 years old, has not been played much so the sound hasn't even opened up yet. I obtained this guitar for 2 purposes: 1. for nostalgia and to play it, as I love the sound of Brazilian RW and I missed the 1967 - D28 I recently sold and 2. as an investment - something I may use to trade or hold for it's rising $ value due to the shortage of good Brazilian RW. In order to maintain the value of any investment, like this guitar, it's important to know what you have, what the true value is and what can detract from that value.

I must apologize to the members of the forum. I came to this forum at the direction of Larrivee. The purpose was to determine what was wrong, if it could be fixed and if so, what would be involved. Nothing more. Larrivee told me this effect was caused by storage, which may, or may not be at this point.  My intention then and now, is not to air any grievances nor to point fingers, or to look for someone to blame, but to look for a solution.

In my brief exposure to this forum, I can see the members are passionate about their instruments, love the care and tradition that goes into the making of a Larrivee guitar and are open to trading up or obtaining different wood combinations. I am no different than any of you in that regard.

Thanks for your help.
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Sparkysings

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Sterling30
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« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2007, 08:39:12 PM »



   I would like to see someone with the same model guitar upload photos of it to this thread and compare the two together to see if there are any differences. And I wouldn't mind Larrivee personal showing up and stating what either right or wrong with this guitar.

   As I told you earlier, if this guitar is indeed flawed I'll take it back but I need to know what is in fact wrong with it should I decide to sell it again.
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rockin_ron
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« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2007, 11:43:48 PM »


   I would like to see someone with the same model guitar upload photos of it to this thread and compare the two together to see if there are any differences. And I wouldn't mind Larrivee personal showing up and stating what either right or wrong with this guitar.

   As I told you earlier, if this guitar is indeed flawed I'll take it back but I need to know what is in fact wrong with it should I decide to sell it again.


I would do a search on the forum under "brazilian" or "D-09BZ" there's got to be pictures already listed.  Sounds like you got a nice rare guitar.  Every time I hear of one it's always a 1999 model.  Does anybody know how many of these Larrivee built?  Was it a limited edition or something?  Reason I ask is because the last guitar show I went to the Larrivee rep said that Brazilian is a $3000 upgrade .... sheeeeeez that's more than most of their stock models !

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Peter Cree
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2007, 11:40:35 AM »

OK, just checked out many pics of this problem.  it is , in my opinion , 'orange peel" though I've never seen quite so much of it. 

Sterlings last pic is not a refraction of the light.  its a poor finish.  If it happened at the factory, I'm amazed.  looks like someone used a silicone based polish or rubbing compound, then overs prayed with nitro.  This is not normal and it absolutely ruins the resale of the guitar.  Doesn't help the tone either.

If it came like this from Larrivee, then the original owner should have spoken up.  To sell this as if its nothing is not right.

Its a 1200.00 dollar repair.
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Peter
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Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2007, 01:45:00 PM »

For comparison purpose only this is what a reflection looks like in the back of my Larrivee. Not Brazilian but I'm not sure that would make that much of a difference in the smoothness of the finish. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


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Roger


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Sterling30
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2007, 02:01:52 PM »

   I actually bought the guitar from a dealer who who made the original owner-collector claim stating he sold the guitar to the original owner who 7 years later sold it back to him..., now I wonder if he bought the guitar from Larrivee itself and made up that story.., if something is wrong with that finish not only Larrivee should have known, so should any "collector" of fine guitars as well as the dealer who sold it to me..

   I think it very possible Larrivee is selling their rejects out the back door to unscrupulous dealers in their dealer network and allowing these type of episodes to occur with little real concern for their customers..

  I really need to hear Larrivee's take on this matter and explanation here if this guitar is faulty or not and how it left their factory if it's that obvious the finish on this guitar is indeed flawed..
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Peter Cree
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2007, 04:15:16 PM »

With the age factor and the fact that this is a nitro instead of a UV poly finish, you can get all kinds of things happen in the 7 or so years its been out of the factory.  I doubt Larri would redo it as a warrantee since its been so long.  alot can happen.

Its a gorgeous guitar but that finish will reduce value and reduce quality of tone.  and its Brz., which will become so valuable.   With the current finish its almost unsalable as is.
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Peter
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stuco
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2007, 04:42:19 PM »

 afro

That ain't right, thats one thing I know for sure.
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Sterling30
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2007, 07:50:43 PM »


Quote
With the age factor and the fact that this is a nitro instead of a UV poly finish, you can get all kinds of things happen in the 7 or so years its been out of the factory.  I doubt Larri would redo it as a warrantee since its been so long.  alot can happen.

Its a gorgeous guitar but that finish will reduce value and reduce quality of tone.  and its Brz., which will become so valuable.   With the current finish its almost unsalable as is.

   What can happen to a guitar with a nitro finish sitting inside it's case for 7 years??? Please explain..
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Tycho
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2007, 08:09:21 PM »

I must admit that I'm having a bit of trouble following this thread.  Sterling30, are you talking about Sparkysings' guitar or some other guitar?
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2007, 08:27:31 PM »

I must admit that I'm having a bit of trouble following this thread.  Sterling30, are you talking about Sparkysings' guitar or some other guitar?

Amen.
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Tycho
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« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2007, 08:35:05 PM »

I think I figured it out. I take it from all of the above that Sterling30 was the seller and Sparkysings was the buyer, but it's hard to know for sure.  There seems to be some sort of relationship between them linked to this guitar, but they haven't explained it. 

Doing so might help.

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stuco
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« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2007, 08:59:33 PM »

thats right tycho, sterling30 sold the guitar to sparkystrings
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Sterling30
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2007, 09:06:00 PM »


  Right, I sold it and he bought it.. Now back to this question..

Quote
With the age factor and the fact that this is a nitro instead of a UV poly finish, you can get all kinds of things happen in the 7 or so years its been out of the factory.  I doubt Larri would redo it as a warrantee since its been so long.  alot can happen.

Its a gorgeous guitar but that finish will reduce value and reduce quality of tone.  and its Brz., which will become so valuable.   With the current finish its almost unsalable as is.

   Again, how does a guitar sitting in it case for 7 years go from being supposedly right out of the factory to becoming "almost unsalable" while sitting in it's case doing nothing?
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Tycho
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2007, 09:20:04 PM »

Wouldn't you need to know the conditions in which the case was stored?  What if it was in an attic without any air-conditioning?  What if it was a damp basement?

Or maybe the person who sold it to you wasn't entirely accurate about its previous existence. 

Either way, given that the guitar was seven years out of the factory when sparkysings bought it and that sterling30 wasn't the original owner, it seems to me that to say something like "I think it very possible Larrivee is selling their rejects out the back door to unscrupulous dealers in their dealer network and allowing these type of episodes to occur with little real concern for their customers.." is perhaps a little hasty.
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Sterling30
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2007, 10:36:40 PM »

   Well this is a mystery that is going to be solved. Now someone buying a guitar that lists for nearly 6g parking it in the cellar for 7 years is a little hasty too. What is certain is this guitar was literally never played and I'm the 4th stop it's made. First is Larrivee factory, then the store it was sent to, then the customer who bought it, then back to the store it was originally bought at, then to me, then to the present owner.

   Now one oddity about is it was shipped to me in an inexpensive new Takaminie case. One would think the original case should have been included, but I sent it in an Alvarez-Yairi case because it was the best case I had but what happened to the original case that should have come with that guitar???

   Hmnn?

   And again, how does a guitar go from being fine when leaving the factory with a nitro finish, is literally not played it's entire existence, (Kirk will vouch for me on this..) and now somehow is in almost "unsellable condition" from doing nothing for 7 years???

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Peter Cree
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« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2007, 12:08:26 AM »

Buddy,

I sure can understand your situation and the frustration you must feel.  Both of you.  I'm trying to help here to figure this out.

1.  guitar comes from factory with no record of a problem with the dealer who would have definitely sent this guitar back.

2.  guitar supposedly sits in a case for 7 years.

3. suddenly a rash is noticed on the finish of the guitar.


Well.

1 something definitely happened to it.    Heat?  that would show the lining of the case..............which it kinda looks like.   If stored in a garage or near a heater you can get fumes from a car which will do horror to nitro.

2.insect replant.  that'll turn nitro into goop.  spray for insects in the area it was stored?

3. fisheye.........................almost always occurs if silicone were present or if the temp of the object and the temp of the finish are 5 degrees apart when sprayed.

4. Plastic bag?  that can crumple and melt the nitro.


OK...........................we have a murder here.  No one leave the room.

My wild guess................................1. left the factory that way.  BUT since no one , including the dealer complained  I find this hard to believe.
2.  Was polished witha silicone based polish or wax such as meguires no 3 and was remelted by heat, insecticide, or gasoline fumes.  then it both crumpled and fisheyed.
3.  Polish was used which had silicone in it and the owner tried to overspray nitro for some minor repair or to shine it up.......................
4 an odor remover was sprayed into the case and ruined the finish.
5. the glue in the case overheated along with the nitro and it caused this. 

Really can't think of much more here.   Anyone?  Rob?
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Peter
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2007, 12:42:56 AM »


   Well I bought it from the dealer who either saw nothing wrong with it or was being dishonest in his assessment of the guitar. Everyone here seems to feel this guitar is flawed, I would think a long time Larrivee dealer should have noticed this too..

   And again..., where is the original case that should have been shipped with this guitar from the factory? Why is that missing?

   Or did it come from the factory without a case because it was never sent out till many years after it was built and I might in fact have been the original owner when I took delivery of this guitar approx 3 month ago?. The condition this guitar is in would suggest this is a real possibility..

   So as it stands now 2 people are screwed. The current owner Kirk who will get a full refund but there are additional costs to him that I feel should cover at least a fair portion of over what I sold the guitar for.

  And I get a guitar returned that according to you is now in almost "unsellable condition.."

   So now you understand why I'm not the only one unhappy here..

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Tycho
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« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2007, 12:49:08 AM »

FWIW, I don't blame you at all for being unhappy.  My only concern was that you seemed to be in a rush to blame the manufacturer when there was a period of seven years -- a long time! -- between the manufacturer and you.

But I understand your frustration and I can imagine how crappy it must feel to be in this situation.  To me, it illustrates the pitfalls of buying sight unseen.

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rockin_ron
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« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2007, 02:44:26 AM »

With the age factor and the fact that this is a nitro instead of a UV poly finish, you can get all kinds of things happen in the 7 or so years its been out of the factory.  I doubt Larri would redo it as a warrantee since its been so long.  alot can happen.

Its a gorgeous guitar but that finish will reduce value and reduce quality of tone.  and its Brz., which will become so valuable.   With the current finish its almost unsalable as is.

When did larrivee use nitro?  This is a late 90's (99) guitar.  I thought they were all finished in UV poly.
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