Pages: 1 ... 4 [5] 6   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why won't Larrivee compete at a higher level?!  (Read 13360 times)
eksjo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #80 on: April 16, 2007, 02:33:46 AM »

...and Phil Keaggy playing an Olson. Sounds good too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3iSiij98VY&mode=related&search=

Plenty of these comparisons to go around. Doyle Dykes makes a Baby Taylor sound like gold!

Indeed..which tells me its the player and not so much the guitar!
Logged
bigmo
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 250


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #81 on: April 16, 2007, 02:41:16 AM »

Indeed..which tells me its the player and not so much the guitar!

Indeed, but it's also a hobby for many. Some own many "fancy" guitars and admit to not playing some of them ever. Some folks contemplate jumping off the roof at their first ding!   Some write off the battle scars as character. Takes all kinds to make this crazy world turn.   bigrin
Logged

1997 Tacoma PM20
2001 Tacoma C5C Chief
2004 Tacoma EMM30 Forum Guitar
2006 Tacoma VECK40C

Tacoma Guitar Forum
eksjo
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #82 on: April 16, 2007, 02:44:57 AM »

 
Logged
sgarnett
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2007, 04:20:46 AM »

thats off topic, the original thread is about why doesn't Larrivee start competing outside that range?

The following post are not relevent to the original question...
"My Larrivee feels light to me"

FWIW, I think the point was that the light Larrivees in question are not standard production models 
Logged
jeremy3220
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4598




Ignore
« Reply #84 on: April 16, 2007, 05:23:53 AM »

FWIW, I think the point was that the light Larrivees in question are not standard production models 

Overall weight isn't important. Having a 'lighter build' is much different than if they weigh less. Is there less mass in the bracing and top?
Logged

poki
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1673




Ignore
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2007, 09:00:54 AM »

that was an interesting video of J Larrivee and justin king really belts out a fine tune.  well worth the 6 hour download with my dinosour dial up modem.

what i could gather from the video is J Larrivee seems to be pretty much a "do things my way" kind of person.  as such he designs and builds his guitars specifically to his personal specs rather than following the beat of a different drummer.  i would suspect this is at least partly the reason he doesn't compete at a higher (or lower) level.  he just makes guitars his way, what ever level that happens to fall into.
Logged



Larrivee 0-09K Koa/sitka
Seagull S6+CW Folk
Goodall Parlor
DaveyO
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1030




Ignore
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2007, 02:23:02 PM »

Whoa,opened up a can of worms with that one.
Larrivee doesnt have to make High end guitars, for what? Their guitars are top notch as it is.
I'm sure he can if he wanted to.He has done all of us a great service providing quality guitars at
a fair price , couldnt ask for more.
Dave
Logged
knockwood
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 51




Ignore
« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2007, 04:16:21 PM »

My question is opposite of Mike's. How can Taylor, Martin, Lowden, etc, etc, get the prices for their guitars when there are companies like Larrivee putting out excellent equipment for reasonable prices.

+1
Personally, I would hate to see Larrivee become another Martin, Gibson, etc. I think they've established themselves in a perfect niche as arguably the best and most consistent bang-for-buck acoustic maker on the continent (with Godin close behind). Larrivee's philosophy seems to be entirely different from that of the other big dogs in that Larri seems to view the longevity of their construction as an integral qualitative component no less vital than tone or playability - rather than an expendable element to be sacrificed for the latter two. Are they somewhat "overbuilt" by comparison to the competition? I guess I'd say yes - certainly more heavily braced; however, I do NOT think this extends to any detrimental impact on tone whatsoever. None that I can see, anyway. I received my first Larri, a D-60, last Thursday ( ). I've played countless dreads and there are of course many models that exhibit more or less of this or that quality, but overall I can unequivocally say I have never heard a "better" sounding dread in my life. If you offered me a new D-45 in exchange for my D-60, I'd probably take you up on it... And sell the D-45 to finance another D-60 and a couple of extra Larrivees...  bigrin I look at Larrivee's line, and there just isn't a thing I see missing (OK, except maybe for a 14-fret 000 with a 1-11/16" nut, but that isn't important right now).
Logged
knockwood
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 51




Ignore
« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2007, 04:27:17 PM »

what i could gather from the video is J Larrivee seems to be pretty much a "do things my way" kind of person.  as such he designs and builds his guitars specifically to his personal specs rather than following the beat of a different drummer.  i would suspect this is at least partly the reason he doesn't compete at a higher (or lower) level.  he just makes guitars his way, what ever level that happens to fall into.

This is very much the sense I've had of the company - "do things my way." There are some choices made that seem to me to be a little wacky. But on the whole, I think "my way" is a good business philosophy. Not that it necessarily leads to fiscal success, but whether the company succeeds or fails, at least you can pursue what you're after with integrity. And a certain element of passion that is never really there if you're operating according to status quo vs. your gut. I'm pretty confident L could make anything they want, any way they want. But Jean seems to have a passion for doing things a certain way, a belief in that way, and the sense I get is that this passion is largely responsible for the extraordinarily high quality of their output. The guy is on a mission.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the unreasonable man." -George Bernard Shaw
Logged
ducktrapper
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10999




Ignore
« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2007, 06:53:54 PM »

That may be true, but that's not the issue in this thread.

If Larrivee were truly to compete with the high end luthiers, it would have to reopen the Custom Shop and get away from it's cookie-cutter method of making guitars.  It would have to tune tops, offer customization (woods, bindings, fingerboard widths, scale lengths, etc.).  I would hope the symetrical bracing would compete with the other bracing used by the other luthiers, but I don't know.

Current Larrivees, nice as they are, could easily be better.  They would cost more, but would be worth it to some.

So let me get this straight. You're trying to limit the debate only to posts that agree with the original premise, which as some have kindly pointed out, makes not a whiff of sense. Why on earth would you or anyone care about what JCL isn't building this year, if as you say, someone else is building the guitars that you describe. 
Again who's stopping anyone from buying those other guitars? As for these guitars eating anything for lunch, do we just sit them side by side on stands and throw some deli food at them or does this involve playing them? In which case, the best player might eat the other players' lunch on a Yamaha. I've yet to see guitars play themselves or come to think of it do much more than drink a little.  In conclusin if you start off with a faulty premise you end up with a thread like this.
Again, I turn the question around. Why can't Ryan, Traugott and Olson, for instance, make a decent guitar for under a grand? Is there a site where I can go and ask?  I'll be nice.   bowdown 
Logged
cjjtulsa
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 100




Ignore
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2007, 07:25:16 PM »

Again, I turn the question around. Why can't Ryan, Traugott and Olson, for instance, make a decent guitar for under a grand? Is there a site where I can go and ask?  I'll be nice.   bowdown 

Maybe the same reason Mercedes doesn't make a car with a rubber floor mat, vinyl bench seat, and a three on the tree?  It's not what they do, or who they cater to.  Everyone has their niche; Larrivee's is the modest to mid price range, and they do a fantastic job of what they do within that range.  I'd personally like to see them open up the wood choices, but not go gonzo on the "high-end" bandwagon, as I'd really like to get my hands on one (a few).  As it is, they are fine instruments and I still want at least one; but comparing them to Olsons, Lowdens, etc. is a little over the top IMHO.  And those have their place as well.  I can't really understand why people can't play what they like, and not waste time and energy worrying about what others are playing.  Seems like that could be time and energy spent practicing and enjoying what they have, whether it costs $900 or $9000.
Logged
PortHueneme
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 829




Ignore
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2007, 07:26:03 PM »

I personally believe Larrivee competes exceedingly well with all guitar manufacturers.
If you like the Larrivee sound (whatever that is) then you won't find a better quality guitar at what ever price you pick to jump into the Larrivee family.

If Jean (or any maker) looked to make an exact copy of another's sound, where would their market be?

If you want a Martin sound, buy a Martin, If you want a Taylor or Gibson sound, well you guessed it, buy one.
If the sound you want is a name maker and you can't afford the name brand (no insult intended) look for an import copy. There are some fine sounding guitars made today that don't break the bank and won't embarrass you in a crowd.

It's my belief the 03's blow away guitars that are priced similarly. The upper end Larrivees sound as good or better as the most expensive from other makers.
I just really like the consistency of Larrivee's. Taylor, Martin, Gibson all make some great guitars, but I have also heard some real duds.
Logged

SD-60 SBT
O-50 TSB
OM-03 Koa
D-09 12 string
Gibson-J50
Gibson Blues King
A gaggle of ukes
sdelsolray
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 492




Ignore
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2007, 08:38:56 PM »

So let me get this straight. You're trying to limit the debate only to posts that agree with the original premise, which as some have kindly pointed out, makes not a whiff of sense. Why on earth would you or anyone care about what JCL isn't building this year, if as you say, someone else is building the guitars that you describe.  

I do agree with the premise of the OP's original post.  The answer is simple.  If Larrivee wanted to compete with the high end makers, it would have to build a better guitar, which it could do if it wanted to.  I would certainly be interested in a higher quality Larrivee - one that has the top tuned, and the bracing sculpted, etc.  Perhaps a "Super" L.  And I certainly expect pay more for it than a cookie-cutter L.


Again, I turn the question around. Why can't Ryan, Traugott and Olson, for instance, make a decent guitar for under a grand? Is there a site where I can go and ask?  I'll be nice.   bowdown 

You'd have to ask those luthiers.  I suspect they could each build guitars for $1,000, but choose not to because each would consider such instruments below what they are capable of.  They have a different mindsets and goals than JCL does.
Logged
knockwood
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 51




Ignore
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2007, 08:58:11 PM »

I love this article:

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Newsletters/Issues/twentythree.htm
Logged
whiskeyjack
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 949




Ignore
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2007, 09:38:24 PM »

THAT is a wonderful article.       ANYBODY interested in how an experienced luthier thinks about the 'art' of building guitars needs to read this. 

 THANK YOU for the temporary hijack.  I have Kinkead's book.  After following your link, I'll be buying Cumpiano's as well.   
Logged

whiskeyjack:  Perisoreus canadensis.  aka, gray jay, whiskey jay, whiskeyjack or timber jay.   A small, friendly bird of the northern coniferous forest.
Randy_R
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7408


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2007, 09:42:15 PM »

http://randyrick.us/video/index.htm
Logged

Randy R., Georgia, USA
Opinions available. Inquire about qty discount.
Forum Guitar III LS03 #15 ser no 108519
Dale_I
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1209




Ignore
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2007, 04:14:08 AM »

I do agree with the premise of the OP's original post.  The answer is simple.  If Larrivee wanted to compete with the high end makers, it would have to build a better guitar, which it could do if it wanted to.  I would certainly be interested in a higher quality Larrivee - one that has the top tuned, and the bracing sculpted, etc.  Perhaps a "Super" L.  And I certainly expect pay more for it than a cookie-cutter L.
I guess that is the question: Who is to say that the bracing he has found that works well with the materials he has chosen to get the sound he wants is less than high quality? I might suggest, by listening to him in the linked videos, that sculpted bracing and etc may not be the choice he would make to find the sound he is after.

Obviously, he states that he thinks Sitka Spruce is "the" top wood to use. Similarly, what he has found through trial and error (and specifically NOT copying other luthiers), seems to work for him. He likes what is going on.

I run a business and respect him for finding that individual thing he is striving for. It is too easy to "join the pack" and carry what everyone carries, make what everyone makes, and sell what everyone sells. What I think is funny is that I find other companies copying our designs. Why? They work! Who would have thought that in doing something different, with dedication to elements of design and some forethought, would yield a leader of the market and not another joiner of the pack. I really think Jean is a leader. I also hope he continues to strive. I look forward to whatever his next quest is.

A thought on the custom guitar shop as well. I'm am currently in the market for a $2500+ guitar. Yes, I would like to call up and order such and such with this and that. However, knowing that Jean's custom ordering is currently not available, I've looked around for existing models with woods and appointments I would like to order. I have found a bunch of options. Sure, Indian Rosewood, Mahogany, Maple (quilted and flamed), Walnut, Sapele, Koa, and etc. But, Mahogany Tops, some of the higher end Brazilion Rosewood, Australian Blackwood, Walnut, Madagascar Rosewood, Ziricote, Pomelle Bubinga, etc. There are inlays, slot heads, pyramid bridges, etc.

I think the key is to be patient and wait for the one that you are looking for. I think Jean experiments with a lot of options. Much more than to classify his offerings as cookie cutter. I think the last video even explains some of the 10 or custom series as vanity. That the inlays and etc are really for show and not play. That's OK too. If a guy is going to plunk down money on a guitar and I would like some simple appointments, why not? Try to get a inlay headstock on a Lowden!


Logged

"The barrier to knowledge is the belief that you have it"

2006 Larrivee LV-10 MR   1980 Les Paul Custom Natural   Larrivee LV-03-12   1998 Carvin LB75 Koa Bass
ducktrapper
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10999




Ignore
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2007, 01:17:19 PM »

You'd have to ask those luthiers.  I suspect they could each build guitars for $1,000, but choose not to because each would consider such instruments below what they are capable of.  They have a different mindsets and goals than JCL does.

Congratulations after 5 pages we've found the answer in what everyone's been saying all along.
Cookie cutter? I get it! You want every single guitar to look and play differently. That is something that is 180 degrees opposed to Mr. Larrivée's effort to deliver consistency. There is nothing inherently wrong with a "cookie cutter" as long as you have a great cookie recipe. This is beyond ridiculous. If my aunt had balls she'd be me uncle!   
Logged
sgarnett
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2007, 01:42:39 PM »

To take things in a different direction, Larrivee has at various times (per their own version of their history) made the choices that allowed him to minimize layoffs in lean times and maintain relatively stable employment.  bowdown Life is what happens while you are making other plans.
Logged
woodruff
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 186




Ignore
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2007, 01:55:29 PM »

i'd love to work for them! maybe oxnard is hiring..... bigrin
Logged

Woody

2006 L-03-WL
1963 Martin 0-16NY(wife's)
Pages: 1 ... 4 [5] 6   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: