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Author Topic: Advice on electronics for OOO-60  (Read 1584 times)
jwb
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« on: September 14, 2006, 02:50:14 PM »

Looking for some recommendtions:

I am going to install electronics on my OOO-60, but don't really know what the best option would be.  I am leaning towards the no-cut LR Baggs system that Larrivee installs on its guitars with the onboard preamp.  I DO know that there is no way that I would cut a hole in the side of this guitar.  So, if price was not an option what would the absolute best set up be?  Would a separate preamp be a better solution? 
 
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ronmac
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2006, 03:29:11 PM »

The best setup option will be different depending on what style of music you play, where you will play it and what outboard processing/aplification sytem you intend to use.

If you can answer those questions we can offer our friendly, free and often contradictory advise!
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jwb
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2006, 06:26:37 PM »

ronmac,

I play fingerstyle with some light strumming (usually only with bare fingers... not much flatpicking), and usually play through an ultrasound 100w amp, but sometimes have to plug into the PA at church.   I have a very percussive style when I play, and have varied musical interests (e.g. blues, rock to hawaiian slack key stuff).  I like to hear the bass brought out in my playing, so bass response is important to my sound.   I experiment with alternate tunings if that has some bearing on the decision.  I just want to bring out the "real" sound of the guitar and am not too worried about feedback at high volume.   

Thanks for any input that can be offered.  I love this new 000-60, and I can't wait to plug it in!
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ronmac
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2006, 06:47:38 PM »

Here is what was suggested in a recent article in Acoustic Guitar:

SOLO FINGERSTYLIST
BUDGET: B-Band UST undersaddle pickup with A1.2 internal preamp ($139 list/$110 street).
MID-LEVEL: L.R. Baggs Dual Source system ($299 list/$220 street), Aphex Acoustic Xciter DI ($199.95 list/$100 street).
HIGH-END: Sunrise soundhole pickup ($222 list/$180 street), Trance Audio Amulet system ($495 direct), Pendulum SPS-1 ($1,695 direct) preamp, AER AcoustiCube 3 ($3,399 list/$2,500 street) amp.

The full article is found here:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/article/165/165,7096,FEATURE-1.asp

Once you set your budget (I realize you mentioned money is no object, but it in the end it usually is) you can start comparing some of the alternate choices. For example, in the high end system described above I may want to substitute a Fishman for the Sunrise. I would keep the Pendulum SPS-1 and perhaps go with the AER or maybe stick with the amp you already have.

It's a place to start.
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jwb
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2006, 01:23:45 PM »

Ron,

Thanks for pointing me to the article...I guess price is something to be considered!  I'll keep researching it, and I'll let you know what I decide.

Justin
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PortHueneme
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2006, 08:40:22 PM »

I like using a mic on my sd-60 (no holes required). I have a belt clip Baggs pre-amp. I have used with asst. ust pickups on other guitars. It is easy and minimal electronics are required.
I have 2 guitars with "DM sweet spots", I am not particulary fond of the pick-ups, but they are adequate. If I were going to do electronics in the SD, I would look for a really good passive system (no battery or pre-amp on board) and use my Baggs pre-amp before the PA/Amp. I also have an Aphex Acoustic Exciter, it really allows for shaping the sound to exactly what you want it to be. I like when I can control my sound and the sound guy is just doing volume and balance.
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2006, 05:22:19 PM »

Here is what was suggested in a recent article in Acoustic Guitar:

SOLO FINGERSTYLIST
BUDGET: B-Band UST undersaddle pickup with A1.2 internal preamp ($139 list/$110 street).
MID-LEVEL: L.R. Baggs Dual Source system ($299 list/$220 street), Aphex Acoustic Xciter DI ($199.95 list/$100 street).
HIGH-END: Sunrise soundhole pickup ($222 list/$180 street), Trance Audio Amulet system ($495 direct), Pendulum SPS-1 ($1,695 direct) preamp, AER AcoustiCube 3 ($3,399 list/$2,500 street) amp.

The full article is found here:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/article/165/165,7096,FEATURE-1.asp

Once you set your budget (I realize you mentioned money is no object, but it in the end it usually is) you can start comparing some of the alternate choices. For example, in the high end system described above I may want to substitute a Fishman for the Sunrise. I would keep the Pendulum SPS-1 and perhaps go with the AER or maybe stick with the amp you already have.

It's a place to start.

The Trance/Pendulum/AER signal chain is very redundant and may actually not work well (dunno for sure, never tried that exact chain).  That's five preamps, one with the Trace, the three stage Pendulum and the one in the AER.  A simpler solution would be (i) Sunrise/PUTW #54 (or some other dual source combo), (ii) Pendulum and (iii) power amp/passive speakers or powered speakers.
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jwb
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2006, 02:04:50 AM »

OK...I have decided to go with a good passive pickup/system and use a preamp in front of the ultrasound.  So what is a "good" passive pickup or transducer to use?  I've looked at the KK mini western, and it appears to be a good product, relatively inexpensive...but I don't know anything about them.  Any suggestions??

Justin
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dberch
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 02:12:19 AM »

Me first!  K&K's are fantastic pickups.  I have them on three very different guitars, and the difference comes through the pickup loud and clear.  Go to Harmony Central and read the reviews.  K&K has the lowest percentage of negative reviews of any pickup.  Assuming you want your guitar to sound acoustic, K&K is a great solution. 

PM me if you'd like some sound samples of mine.

David
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 04:08:07 AM »

OK...I have decided to go with a good passive pickup/system and use a preamp in front of the ultrasound.  So what is a "good" passive pickup or transducer to use?  I've looked at the KK mini western, and it appears to be a good product, relatively inexpensive...but I don't know anything about them.  Any suggestions??

Justin

The K&K mini is an excellent SBT pickup (most SBTs are excellent).  How far will your Ultrasound be from your guitar (i.e., how long of a cord are you planning on using)?  If it's too far (more than 10' or so), you may need another item in your signal chain.
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jwb
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 12:28:02 AM »

I sometimes go to a 20 foot cord from the amp.  I like to move around when I play standing, and keep some distance between me and the amp in a big room (like the church).   Thanks for the heads up on the potential need for some signal boost with the longer cable...can't get anything past you guys!  I guess that's 2 votes for the K  & K...I think I'll give the mini a try and see how it works out.  You really can't beat the price, and the reviews are good.  Thanks for the help



 
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2006, 12:49:46 AM »

I sometimes go to a 20 foot cord from the amp.  I like to move around when I play standing, and keep some distance between me and the amp in a big room (like the church).   Thanks for the heads up on the potential need for some signal boost with the longer cable...can't get anything past you guys!  I guess that's 2 votes for the K  & K...I think I'll give the mini a try and see how it works out.  You really can't beat the price, and the reviews are good.  Thanks for the help



 

The K&K mini, comprised three ceramic based piezos, puts out a fairly strong signal, when compared to other passive pickups.  Still, that signal is weak, when compared to other audio signals.  While traveling down a cable that signal will degrade.  How much depends on the cable's construction, it's capacitance, it's length and external RFI and other possible interference.  By adding gain to the signal in or near the guitar the relative degragation is diminished greatly, plus the signal to noise ratio will be improved.

If you are eventually plugging into an amp or mixer (each having a preamp and eq), all you need it a gain boost with perhaps a volume control nearby.  PUTW makes a product that plugs into your guitar endpin jack that does exactly that.  It's called the Power Plug.  It won't interfere with you moving around on stage.  One of the frequent posters here and on other boards has a used one for sale, at least as of a week or two ago.
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