Phosphor Bronze bright???

Started by WorksInTheory, July 10, 2006, 10:26:20 PM

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Found this in the Strings section of the FAQ for Martin Guitars:

Q: What is the difference between phosphor bronze and regular bronze strings?
A: Simply put, the difference lies in the tone of the strings. Phosphor bronze has a copper/tin alloy, making them sound brighter.

I thought it was the opposite meaning - 80/20 were bright and PB's were warm and darker? I get so confused.
04 Larrivee DV-03E | 00 Tacoma JK50CE | 08 CA GXi | 08 CA Cargo XS-CE
used to own:
99 Guild F47CE (Westerly) | 02 Martin SPJC-16R | 03 Martin DC-16RGTE | 03 Martin MC-16GTE | 05 Seagull MJM6 w/ QII | 01 Washburn EA20SDL | 02 Guild JF-30 Sunburst | 00 Taylor LOTF 410MACE | 02 Tacoma JF21 | 08 CA 7M-CE (GX)

Personally, I find the 80/20 sets brighter than the PB sets.
Ron


Quote from: ronmac on July 11, 2006, 07:18:58 AM
Personally, I find the 80/20 sets brighter than the PB sets.

+1

D'addario lists 80/20s as being brighter than PB.
http://www.daddario.com/DADFAcoustic.aspx?ID=2

Describing tone is always tricky.  Terminology means different things to different people.

PB strings are definitely warmer and less bright than 80/20s in my book.
Bing

Larrivee J-09FM
Taylor 814ce
Music Man Axis SS w/piezo

I don't find PB brighter but it does seem to have more overtones ... maybe that's what they mean.  I've used 80/20s and find they have sort of a scooped midrange sound.  At least that's the way I describe it ... as someone said, tone is a wee bit subjective.

My viewpoint would be 80/20s are often brighter with an almost rubber band sound on the middle strings for the first day or two then they mellow out to actually become warmer than the PBs. The only 80/20s I know of that stay bright longer and stay very bright is classic Elixir nanos. But now even they sell PBs too. Some PBs are also brighter than others. The John Pearse PBs are killer strings but too bright for me while DiAddario EJ-16s and Martin SP PBs are highly available everywhere and right down the middle of the road. Nice strings that are hard to beat for tone, avail and price less than 7 bucks. There's a brand called Newtone which has PBs and 80/20 but unlike all the modern brands they are hand made like old strings without the hex shaped core which basically holds the windings tighter. The Newtone round cores cant be clipped off until they are completley installed but they have a more round bell tone to them. DR Strings is another PB I find very bright and almost wirey. Some string experts say modern hex core strings have an edge to them but I find you ear and personal guitar are the only things that dictate what you like. Not sales literature. Now on another point a great guitar seems to sound good even with dead strings but many guitars I've owned from J-45 Gibsons to Harmony Sovereigns was so warm and thuddy they didn't sound good unless you had fresh strings. I'm not sure that's a good thing. Your ear begins getting used to hearing that silkly swishy trebles on new strings and you begin loosing touch with the sound of the guitar and confuse TONE with string sound. String sound reflects off the fretboard and all woods to some degree or another. So a rosewood guitar is often hard and reflective and you hear more of the metallic sound from the strings than a more absorbant and WOODY mahogany for example. What the woods absorb vs reflect has a huge part in how the tone of the guitar is colored by the body. If you have a mahogany topped guitar that can even give you another set of demands. They like certian strings better than others too. This was a long winded answer but I've been changing strings on guitars since the days of Black Diamonds and you've never had better choices. After a week of playing almost all PBs are going to sound the same. The main point is there is initial tone but people usually forget they also have a personality when it comes to how they last, stay bright over the first week or two. Laurence Juber plays some GHS special editions PBs that I believe are way too warm after a few days but he changes strings at every BREAK during a gig if you can believe it. So his needs are different. I also go into the studio sometimes and choose the Newtones because they sound perfect right after installation and not trebly and glassy. I like Elixir Nano PBs on one or two guitars that I dont like to change strings much. My resonators sound fantastic with plain old DAddario EJ-16s. The Larrivee L-05M sounded great with the factory Elixir 80/20s. See what I mean? Good luck finding what works best. I answered your question then wrote a book ;) Yikes - too much Starbucks!

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Quote from: LittleBrother on July 11, 2006, 12:25:05 PM
My viewpoint would be 80/20s are often brighter with an almost rubber band sound on the middle strings for the first day or two then they mellow out to actually become warmer than the PBs. The only 80/20s I know of that stay bright longer and stay very bright is classic Elixir nanos. But now even they sell PBs too. Some PBs are also brighter than others. The John Pearse PBs are killer strings but too bright for me while DiAddario EJ-16s and Martin SP PBs are highly available everywhere and right down the middle of the road. Nice strings that are hard to beat for tone, avail and price less than 7 bucks. There's a brand called Newtone which has PBs and 80/20 but unlike all the modern brands they are hand made like old strings without the hex shaped core which basically holds the windings tighter. The Newtone round cores cant be clipped off until they are completley installed but they have a more round bell tone to them. DR Strings is another PB I find very bright and almost wirey. Some string experts say modern hex core strings have an edge to them but I find you ear and personal guitar are the only things that dictate what you like. Not sales literature. Now on another point a great guitar seems to sound good even with dead strings but many guitars I've owned from J-45 Gibsons to Harmony Sovereigns was so warm and thuddy they didn't sound good unless you had fresh strings. I'm not sure that's a good thing. Your ear begins getting used to hearing that silkly swishy trebles on new strings and you begin loosing touch with the sound of the guitar and confuse TONE with string sound. String sound reflects off the fretboard and all woods to some degree or another. So a rosewood guitar is often hard and reflective and you hear more of the metallic sound from the strings than a more absorbant and WOODY mahogany for example. What the woods absorb vs reflect has a huge part in how the tone of the guitar is colored by the body. If you have a mahogany topped guitar that can even give you another set of demands. They like certian strings better than others too. This was a long winded answer but I've been changing strings on guitars since the days of Black Diamonds and you've never had better choices. After a week of playing almost all PBs are going to sound the same. The main point is there is initial tone but people usually forget they also have a personality when it comes to how they last, stay bright over the first week or two. Laurence Juber plays some GHS special editions PBs that I believe are way too warm after a few days but he changes strings at every BREAK during a gig if you can believe it. So his needs are different. I also go into the studio sometimes and choose the Newtones because they sound perfect right after installation and not trebly and glassy. I like Elixir Nano PBs on one or two guitars that I dont like to change strings much. My resonators sound fantastic with plain old DAddario EJ-16s. The Larrivee L-05M sounded great with the factory Elixir 80/20s. See what I mean? Good luck finding what works best. I answered your question then wrote a book ;) Yikes - too much Starbucks!

I thought this was a pretty good answer and not too long winded as you said. In any case strange that a reputable and experienced company like Martin would make it so short and sweet to say PB's are brighter.
04 Larrivee DV-03E | 00 Tacoma JK50CE | 08 CA GXi | 08 CA Cargo XS-CE
used to own:
99 Guild F47CE (Westerly) | 02 Martin SPJC-16R | 03 Martin DC-16RGTE | 03 Martin MC-16GTE | 05 Seagull MJM6 w/ QII | 01 Washburn EA20SDL | 02 Guild JF-30 Sunburst | 00 Taylor LOTF 410MACE | 02 Tacoma JF21 | 08 CA 7M-CE (GX)

Yepper, now you see what I mean. You have to try them yourself and see what really happens vs the marketing literature. In my opinion this is either a typo or they are talking about PB compared to something other than 80/20. In either case this is just plain old misleading or wrong.

Q: What is the difference between phosphor bronze and regular bronze strings?
A: Simply put, the difference lies in the tone of the strings. Phosphor bronze has a copper/tin alloy, making them sound brighter.



Check out my new blues site WEB SITE with free acoustic blues lesson videos and more.

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