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Author Topic: Which Size Is Closest To Taylor X14?  (Read 4167 times)
njmurvin
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« on: September 05, 2003, 04:48:56 PM »

I'm new to this forum.

I have been looking to purchase an acoustic/electric and have mostly looked at the Taylors, Martins, etc.  I am also interested in the Larrivee line.  I have an opportunity to get a pretty good deal on an OMV-10.  How close is this to the x14 sized Taylors (which I like)?  How does this model measure up tone-wise to a Taylor?  Finally what aftermarket electronics package is recommended for a guitar like this?

Thanks,
Neil
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tholmes
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2003, 08:22:54 PM »

njmurvin- I think (perhaps wrongly) that the "L" body Larrivees would be closer to the Taylor x14s. The OM size is more like Taylor's x12 size.

Tom
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2003, 02:44:57 AM »

Tom is correct.  The L body is closet to the Taylor Grand Auditorium.  
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2003, 05:29:17 AM »

Personally, I never considered a Taylor due to the 3-piece bolt down neck and pressed in, not tapped, un-barbed frets. But I did have a 91' Martin OM 21 which was very balanced for a rosewood. I had a DM Sweet Spot  wired with a Crown 200 GLM mic into a stereo endpin jack and played it thru a Fishman blender and a Rane AP 13. For the extra money I'd go with the Rane as it is, overall a better unit IMO. (for a great effects unit, check out the TC Electronics M-One XL, it's a dual engine asskicking machine for the money)  Although the Martin was a great guitar, I subsequently replaced it with a OMV 10 special edition Koa which tonally was way better than the OM 21. I also dropped in my existing pickup/mic setup in the Koa and it sounds great.  For the most part,  the OM with the smaller thinner body is great for fingerstyle playing up and down the neck. It is also great for fitting in that sonic range over a dred or jumbo in a duet situation and sounds great plugged in. However, I find that the L body is better overall for flatpicking and strumming  both plugged and unplugged. It is also wonderful for fingerstyle as well. The OM due to the smaller body will compress the tone as you increase your attack when flatpicking or strumming. If I could one have but one, I would opt for a L cutaway in either mahogany or perferably Koa if you can afford it. (I speak from presonal experience as I  also have a LV 10 Koa, somebody get me the gas-x!) If you want a more  reflective/transparent tone look at the maple ones. The rosewood is a bit boomy on the bottom and doesn't quite ring out on the top end for my taste...so try before you buy.  B)
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2003, 12:56:44 AM »

Koaman makes some excellent observations on the L body's tonal characteristics.  However, I have to  say that Taylor makes wonderful guitars.  I know because I own an absoutely amazing 1996 714.  Sometimes the bolt on neck stigma gets over played.  The Taylor NT neck design is guite ingenious and actually place more of the neck against the body of the guitar than standard dovetail or mortis and tenon joints.  The frets have not given me any problem what so ever.  Taylors playablitiy is superb and tone is well balanced and very alive.  However tone is entirely subjective so play on and let your heart and ears decide.

You should ask the question at the Taylor Guitar Forum www.taylorguitarforum.com.  Although it is a Taylor forum, there are many there that have Larrivee guitars and love them as well.

All the best,
Mike

 
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2003, 03:20:52 AM »

Hey Mike,
    I hope you didn't take it as a slight against Taylors, nor was it my intent to imply they are not tonally great instruments, because they are.  Martins, likewise are wonderful instruments and have owned several over the years. There are individual specimens of each maker out there worth dying for!  I must say, however, that there is something very special about the design, aesthetics of wood selection,  craftsmanship and tone that go into each Larrivee I own that I have found lacking in other guitars based upon similar models and equal price points. IMHO with Larrivee, you get the best bang for the buck... in fact , acoustically, those are the only guitars I own.
                           
   Best Regards, Koamon
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2003, 01:51:54 PM »

Koamon:

Naaaa  I didn't think you were slighting Taylors in the least.  I just wanted to make a point that you just did, that is, all guitars have their own qualities in tone and design...ala NT neck.  Although I love Taylor guitars, I am currently shopping for a mahogany guitar and think that the LV-05 is the ticket for me.  And yes, Larrivee does produce the most bang for the buck from what I've seen in my recent hunt for a new guitar.  

All the best,
Mike
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2003, 10:32:15 PM »

I do believe that I’ll pile on, too. Yes, the “L-bodied” Larrivee’s most closely approximate the Taylor “X14” body style. The “X14/L-body” provides an excellent all-around instrument, as well-suited finger-picking as it is for strumming. :D  I’ve owned 4 Taylor’s, and presently own 2, an 814CE and a 355/12-string, along with my LV09E. To my ear, the Larrivee’ presents a stronger mid-range response and a somewhat deeper and “softer” tone, while the Taylor focuses on very bright highs and crisp lows – a lot of “shimmer.”

I’ve long felt that Taylor guitars provide an extraordinary amount of bang for the buck in the areas of playability, tone, features, appointments, quality of materials and workmanship, customer relations, etc., etc., particularly as compared to Mahten, whom Taylor now outsell by about 30%-35%. Knock Taylors? Not me; except for their ill-executed ES-pickup system, Taylor have done nothing but make deft moves and institute clever innovations since their arrival in the market about 25 years ago. For instance, look back several years and show me all the Mahtens with cut-aways, with on-board electronics, or even with AN ADJUSTABLE ROD IN THE NECK, for cryin’ out loud.  B) The majority of updates to that venerable maker’s line appear to have been a rear-guard attempt to keep up with Taylor.

The (earlier) knock on Taylor seems somewhere between snobbish and wishful, and is predicated on issues that matter to most players not a whit, as they affect neither sound nor playability in any appreciable way. I have long been aware that there are folks out there who harbor ill feelings toward Taylors, but speaking just for myself, I’d need far better reasons than untapped frets to justify any distaste for a brand of guitar.  <_<  

I would agree, though not overly enthusiastically, that Larrivee’ boasts great value for the guitar buyer. My uncertainty on this point stems from the fact that, although my Larrivee’ is relatively new, the jury is still out on quality issues. As delivered, there was a nasty discoloration in the top – looks like a “bleached-out” spot about half the size of your palm, below the sound-hole, about where a scratch guard would be. It should never, ever have left the factory like that. I bought it sight-unseen over the ‘net, so…surprise!!! Because it was sooooo ugly, I had my luthier design, cut and fit a custom pick guard to cover the spot…$75. When I plugged the LV09E in, I found that the UST didn’t pick up the low “E” string at all, and the “A” was muted. Hmmmmm. Before I could have that seen to, the bridge lifted, and that had to go back to the luthier again.  :blink: He fixed the wayward transducer while he was in there. That cost another $100.00 or so, plus a fee for a set-up.

So now, all is pretty much well with my Larrivee’, but I’m in an extra $175.00 or so to get my new guitar to look and work as it should. So as to the issue of value, I have to add that I’ve yet to spend one red cent for repair or upkeep on any of my Taylors -- and  they have all arrived from the factory with a killer set-up. Yes, the LV-09E cost several hundred $$$ less than my Taylor 814CE, but the problems I’ve had with the Larrivee are closing the gap…I hope that the California shop is/was just experiencing “teething pains,” and that things are better now.    

I'm not so sure that I'm in absolute agreement about the mahogany/rosewood/maple thing, either. I've owned a number of mahogany guitars over the many years, and it was my impression that the sound was just a bit "muddy" and "boomy" to me -- not enough high-register response. Maple seems almost too bright, oftentimes lacking the nuance and subtlety I prefer. The rosewood/spruce combination suits my taste and playing far better. But then again, that's just me. Depends on what you're playing and what you like. Try several. Perhaps you should ask Koamon about his favorite tone wood. He may have a recommendation for you.  ;)  
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2003, 12:42:53 AM »

Well now I have to step up to the plate here.If you buy a guitar thats not what you want and you have to put money into it right away--SEND IT BACK TO THE PERSON YOU BOUGHT IT FROM--
Next the prolems you've mention about your Larrivee should have been covered under warrenty if it was new and bought from a princabled dealer.As a dealer myself if the guitar had a blem on it I wasn't told about it would have been sent back{never had a problem sending a guitar back that didn't meet there standards}.We buy seconds all the time and discount the price and inform you the costomer that's it is a blem.
As for Taylors IMHO its overprice and singlular sounding.Never meet one I liked.Had a friend who bought one within 3 weeks I was pressing frets back in{Taylors solution to the problem was to super glue the frets down}So I'm not inpress.I've been dealing in guitars for a long time and repairing them almost as long and the guitar that comes in for repair the most is Taylor.I always try an talk them into sending the guitar back to Taylor because I don't feel that they should pay me for work that should be taken care of by Taylor.
As for all there new inovations--shades of early Asian imports ie:3 piece neck,bolt on neck.Hope I haven't Made anyone mad but this is MO :rolleyes:  
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2003, 03:13:03 AM »

Replying in order of appearance:

> Well now I have to step up to the plate here.If you buy a
> guitar thats not what you want and you have to put money
> into it right away--SEND IT BACK TO THE PERSON YOU
> BOUGHT IT FROM--


Well, of course it was what I wanted; that's why I bought it. It's just that there was a nasty blemish. The dealer DID tell me that there was a slight discoloration that appeared under certain lighting, at certain angles, and he did discount the guitar. The discoloration turned out to be VERY ugly though, and it was apparent unless the room was pitch-black, so I chose to cover it with a custom pickguard. To me, the blemish  represents a quality-control issue. The guitar shouldn't have left Larrivee's door unless it met their standards for appearance. And if they have no such standards, that troubles me even more.

 
> Next the prolems you've mention about your Larrivee should
> have been covered under warrenty if it was new and bought
> from a princabled dealer.As a dealer myself if the guitar had a
> blem on it I wasn't told about it would have been sent back
>{never had a problem sending a guitar back that didn't meet
> there standards}.We buy seconds all the time and discount
> the price and inform you the costomer that's it is a blem.


And as for the bridge lifting up away from the body, Matthew Larrivee' was kind enough to take an interest in my "prolem." He advised in a 'phone conversation that of course the bridge repair would be covered under their "warrenty." The issues that remained, though, were that for Larrivee to do the repair, I'd have to spend $40 or so to ship it to them, inherit the risk involved with shipping the thing back and forth to CA for the work, then be without the guitar for a period of several weeks. I elected to have the work done locally, at my cost, by a trusted luthier, and to have the much-needed set-up done at the same time. Am I happy and satisfied? Not really, but given the circumstances, I believe that it was the best path to take. Am I copascetic about QC at Larrivee'? Don't know. I represent the smallest possible sample, so I'm drawing no conclusions.    


> As for Taylors IMHO its overprice and singlular sounding.


I have no idea what you're trying to say. Run that by me again, please. Its overprice WHAT; and what's "singlular?"


> Never meet one I liked.


I suppose we're quite different then, Tarzan. I've liked virtually all the Taylors I've played, save a 914CE a year or so ago. Yet I'm one who's never enjoyed playing Mahtens. Though many view them as the grail, those I've picked up have been singularly unimpressive, with stiff action, little sustain, no highs...just bluegrass cannons: all volume, no nuance. I'm sure I'm way off base, but I just don't like Mahtens and I don't enjoy playing them.


> Had a friend who bought one within 3 weeks I was pressing
> frets back in (snip) So I'm not inpress.


Please refer to your earlier remarks concerning warranty coverage for manufacturer's defects. That was the part where you implied that I was nuts not to send my Larrivee' back to the company for warranty service. I understand that even in light of the "ES" debacle, Taylor's warranty-fulfillment rate is said to be the best of any large-scale guitar maker. I'd hazard to say that one Taylor in need of a fret job does not imply a major crisis at Taylor.


> I've been dealing in guitars for a long time and repairing them
> almost as long and the guitar that comes in for repair the
> most is Taylor.


I checked with my luthier (who runs a full-time, 6-days-a-week guitar-repair center), and he's seen 6 Taylors in the last 13 months. And he said all those were for items covered under warranty. Again, probably not a statistically-viable sample; perhaps the number that appear in your shop is more a function of the fact that they sell a ton of 'em, and to active players. It's like saying Jeeps seem to need more service work than Lincolns. Hmmmm, so off-road use entails more wear and tear than driving back and forth to the funeral home...Go figure. Case in point: I own a Rickenbacker. I love it, but playing it is a chore, and it requires a fair amount of upkeep (I tell my luthier that my 360/12 is his 401K). So check out ebay for Rickenbackers sometime, and notice how many of them are offered as "dead mint" or "like new." It could be because they are bought, played once or twice, them put in the case and kept under the bed for the next 10 years. Voila! No wear. Taylors aren't like that.


> I always try an talk them into sending the guitar back to
> Taylor because I don't feel that they should pay me for work
> that should be taken care of by Taylor.


Again, see your earlier post. Don't pay for warranty-covered service. Send it back to the maker. Just as you didn't do with the Taylor...Enough, already.


> As for all there new inovations--shades of early Asian
> imports ie:3 piece neck,bolt on neck.Hope I haven't Made
> anyone mad but this is MO


Where innovations? There innovations. It's a debate that can rage on forever, but I'm not so certain that your attribution of all mentioned "inovations" can be laid at the feet of Takemine, et al. You may give credit to Taylor grudgingly or not at all, but the company have consistently been in the forefront of advancing acoustic guitar design and modification for a quarter century. The fact that my LV-09E has an onboard blender pickup system, that it has a cutaway body style, that it's the SHAPE and SIZE it is (the genesis of this thread, I would hasten to add), that it has a neck that plays like an electric from the 60's, andonandonandonandon is owed in no small part to the work done by Bob Taylor and his evil hordes. Deal with it. All the other high-end acoustic guitar makers have had to.  
 
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2003, 03:29:27 AM »

In the words of a famous sailor..."I am what I am". If Koamon is a snob for preferring a guitar made the in the traditional way...so be it. There is a reason for it, in an entirely ethereal and organic sense the guitar is a evolved design that in conception, execution and duration began centuries before in the first generation sitka spruce forrests of No. America. The ebony wood is from Africa, the mahogany is from Honduras and in my guitars the koa bodies come only from one place in the world, Hawaii. In my quest for tone, desirability of craftsmanship and design, it is purely subjective from a a purely individual Vibe. The problem arises when one states a personal preference that others preceive as a prejudice or bias. It simply is not so. In all reality, I have never met a guitar that I didn't like or wouldn't play,...life's too short. I certainly wouldn't pass up an opportunity to play a Taylor, Martin, Gibson or the like, but for myself I own Larivees.
   
Regarding my body wood preference, as my handle implies, mine is Koa. The Koa guitars that Larrivee puts out  IMHO is the best all-round tonal wood there is. It has a great bottom end yet not too boomy. The mids are balanced up and down the neck and the highs ring like a bell. The sustain is to die for (like a grand piano) and in open tunings come out very crisp and not muddy at all. Either in a plugged or unplugged enviroment you will not be disappointed.  I should know as  I have a OMV 10K,  LC10K, DV 10K and an all Koa Parlor.

Hey Mike, if you are still following this thread, I know that you are looking for a LV 5, but you should check out UnclRob's sale on two D Koas one a cutaway and the other a regular body at Andy'sGuitar.com. They are both killer guitars, I played them against a LV 5 sharp cutaway in the shop and felt they articulated pretty close to the L body Mahogany in tone, not boomy at all.
They are certainly priced to sell. I chose the DV 10k over the other two because of the appointments.

PS, I have the curse of working down the street from the shop!

Best wishes to all,  Koamon
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2003, 06:55:35 AM »

Quote
The fact that my LV-09E has an onboard blender pickup system, that it has a cutaway body style, that it's the SHAPE and SIZE it is (the genesis of this thread, I would hasten to add), that it has a neck that plays like an electric from the 60's, andonandonandonandon is owed in no small part to the work done by Bob Taylor and his evil hordes. Deal with it. All the other high-end acoustic guitar makers have had to.
Well, to be precise, one can hardly argue that Taylor deserves credit for pioneering the advent of the cutaway guitar.  Furthermore, Taylor's onboard blender pickup system was developed by Fishman, not Taylor, so I don't understand why Bob Taylor's work has anything to do with one of the most common OEM pickup systems in use.  Finally, the Larrivee L body style was developed by Larrivee himself, inspired by the shape of traditional classical guitars, and enlarged to bridge the gap with dreadnoughts.  Again, Taylor's x14 body style is hardly a prototype for the L body, sharing practically no dimensions with the former.  Finally, though I agree that Taylor has been quick to adopt new guitar manufacturing technologies, they were not the ones to invent bolt-on necks, multi-piece necks, cutaways, nor pickups, and furthermore I believe that Taylor's "advanced manufacturing technology" has as much to do with bringing down production costs as creating a better guitar (which, in the end, are cost savings that are NOT passed on to the consumer).

I am not knocking Taylor; I own one, as well as several Larrivees, though my favorite guitars are Martins (which is, apparently, how it is spelled and pronounced in Standard American English).  I also believe that the Taylor guitar excels at the type of tone they are trying to create, but that doesn't preclude other mass-manufacturers from making excellent guitars in their respective niches as well.

Finally: "You may give credit to Taylor grudgingly or not at all, but the company have consistently been in the forefront of advancing acoustic guitar design and modification for a quarter century."

Your own posts, it seems, are not immune to grammatical errors.  Perhaps you should either spend more time proofreading your own posts, or spend less time needling others about their spelling mistakes.  Calling people names is not a substitute for character.  There is no excuse for such a lack of maturity.
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2003, 01:28:46 PM »

Oh well did I do this?Sorry.All I'm saying is" opinion are like ***hole's we all have one"my just seems to p*ss people off but this is America and I have that rite.By the way I too work 6 day's a week,it suck's.I'd like to spend more time with my family and PLAYING MY LARRIVEE's.I have the choice to play anything I want.I choose Larrivee "L's"because there's nothing out there like them.If I could afford it I'd love an Olsen or mybe a D'angelico,or a 000 Martin,possibly an Gibson SJ from the 50's.Sorry no taylor's,personal taste.Then again what do I know only been at this for 30 year's or so.Ramble,ramble,rammmbbblleee!!!!!!!!! afro  
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2003, 03:50:27 PM »

I'll take ALL of your opinions to heart and ponder them before the purchase of my 1st Larrivee. I always look forward to a morning cup of Kona brew, and sifting thru the different POV's, a little bit from here a little from there. All valued opinions. I'm certain now with my choice of an "L" body style from the voices within this forum.

Alohas from Maui,
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2003, 05:57:34 PM »

I have 5 Taylors (Big Baby, 355, 614cd, 714ce and 814c) and they are all superb insturments, both visually and tonally.  I also have a wonderful Larrivée L-05.  (I have a bunch of others too but we're talking Taylors and Lrrivées here).

To compare them is like asking if your prefer a certain auto maker over another.  It's all personal preference.   They are both great guitars manufacturers.

I happen to prefer my Taylors over the Larrivée at this point.  (The Larrivée L-05 will and can do it all if you must have only one - I think it is a most versitile instrument).

One thing I do know, I wouldn't take any of my guitars to UnclRob for any reason, that's for damn sure!    
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2003, 06:00:59 PM »

that hurt but what the heck. :(  
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2003, 06:03:34 PM »

Zing!!!!   :blink:  
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2003, 06:09:05 PM »

can't please everyone.no need for personal nasties.still dislike taylors,but that's why there are so many builders. :D  
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2003, 06:31:44 PM »

I don't know why . . . but to each his own.  ;)  
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2003, 07:13:28 PM »

Bottom line...  Taylor, Larrivee and others make great guitars.  Our personal preferences are very subjective.  

We are all blessed to have such a wonderul selection to choose from...  So why the mudslinging?  Must be some aspiring politicians on board  B)

Enjoy your choice(s) and the differences therein.

Best,
Mike

 
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