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sdelsolray
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2006, 06:46:41 AM »

Hey Randy

So it's a type of pre-amp?  When I look at the K&K preamps..are they doing as much as a DI box...and more?  Is the DI box a smaller version of  these.?

Chris

Although some (many actually) DI boxes can boost a signal, none of them boost enough to handle a microphone, which needs alot of gain.  For recording, you need a microphone (or two), a preamp (it will boost the signal enough - that's what it is designed to do), an AD converter (translates analog signals to digital) and a computer with appropraite software.  You also need a DA converter (translates digital back to analog) and a power amp and speakers (called reference monitors) to hear what you recorded.
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Randy_R
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2006, 12:18:59 PM »

Awesome Randy..in your opinion where does all the background hiss come from and what would you do to take it up a level. Although I am a beginner player...i am a freak about quality sound.

Thanks.. Chris

I know.  :UND> Which is probably why I don't use this setup more.. My presumption of the source of the hiss is the low-end audio card in my laptop, but am not 100% sure. Which is why I'll buy a USB mixer some time soon.
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2006, 11:27:37 PM »

Although some (many actually) DI boxes can boost a signal, none of them boost enough to handle a microphone, which needs alot of gain.  For recording, you need a microphone (or two), a preamp (it will boost the signal enough - that's what it is designed to do), an AD converter (translates analog signals to digital) and a computer with appropraite software.  You also need a DA converter (translates digital back to analog) and a power amp and speakers (called reference monitors) to hear what you recorded.

OK, so I am getting familiar with the need for a preamp..especially when using a condensor mic (phantom power)..but now you've mentioned this AD convertor thingy...WHAT the HECK is that?  Never head of a 2nd device between a preamp and computer. Can you send me a URL to one so I can see it.  Why do many preamps have a USB port for your computer of a AD convertor box is needed?

Thanks
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2006, 11:38:02 PM »

Hey Crunchy Wacko, (what does that mean anyway??)

Have you read this article?

Home Recording Demystified from APM
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ronmac
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2006, 11:40:30 PM »

If the preamp has a usb output the AD converter is included.
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« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2006, 12:06:17 AM »

The analog signal has to be converted to digital. This is what your soundcard is for. And yes there are different levels of converters, which is why no serious "home recording engineer" would use the cheap stock onboard audio cards or a sound blaster. Dedicated audio cards start out a reasonable prices and are easy to install.
Also USB is not the ideal connection for recording. USB 1.1 is WAY to slow, latency city blah. Also if you use a USB device that has it's own preamp, realize that all that power will have to be drawn from your usb connection. Here's a review of a popular usb audio interface: http://www.mojopie.com/mobilepre.html
Do yourself a favor and by a mic pre and a seperate dedicated sound card. PCI or at least firewire. I'm not sure why so many recording newbies gravitate toward the usb, maybe cause it seems easy just plug it in and go. But trust me you'll find the art of recording many times more complicated than installing a PCI card.

o yeh AD converter translates to; Analog to Digital converter

homerecording.com is a useful place for gaining recording knowledge. Check out the forums, they are helpful. and just to warn you they may not be as ummmm ...  "civilized" over there.
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2006, 12:08:17 AM »

Hey Crunchy Wacko, (what does that mean anyway??)

Have you read this article?

Home Recording Demystified from APM

Hi

Re: my name...i had no idea of a unique name when I signed up so I went to a website with a name convertor on it...put in my first/last name and it generated Crunchy Wacko...go figure.

Yes, i watched all 3 videos..don't remember seeing anything about a AD box but some great info on mics - preamps and recording SW.

Cheers
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2006, 12:24:49 AM »

The analog signal has to be converted to digital. This is what your soundcard is for. And yes there are different levels of converters, which is why no serious "home recording engineer" would use the cheap stock onboard audio cards or a sound blaster. Dedicated audio cards start out a reasonable prices and are easy to install.
Also USB is not the ideal connection for recording. USB 1.1 is WAY to slow, latency city blah. Also if you use a USB device that has it's own preamp, realize that all that power will have to be drawn from your usb connection. Here's a review of a popular usb audio interface: http://www.mojopie.com/mobilepre.html
Do yourself a favor and by a mic pre and a seperate dedicated sound card. PCI or at least firewire. I'm not sure why so many recording newbies gravitate toward the usb, maybe cause it seems easy just plug it in and go. But trust me you'll find the art of recording many times more complicated than installing a PCI card.

o yeh AD converter translates to; Analog to Digital converter

homerecording.com is a useful place for gaining recording knowledge. Check out the forums, they are helpful. and just to warn you they may not be as ummmm ...  "civilized" over there.

Thanks for all the info!  Is this a good eg of a MIC-PRE 

http://www.behringer.com/MIC200/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Does it conenct to a PCI card via line in?

Now what happens though when I also want to record via my intermal pickup.?  I want to be sure to get a box that will do both pickup and mic...call it future-proofing. What options to i have?

This is where an online chat forum would be awesome.
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jeremy3220
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2006, 01:00:11 AM »

I'm not familiar with that one, but the general rule is to stay away from cheap tubes. Those modeling features are probably junk too.
M-Audio makes some decent low end pres, the Audio Buddy is the cheapest and the DMP3 is a step up. The Studio Projects VTB-1 is a tube blend pre, but I thought it was decent. It's only one channel though. These pres also have 1/4" inputs so yes you can plug your guitar/pedals into it.

Dedicated sound cards should have balanced inputs. So you just run a balanced cable from the pre to the sound card. Pay attention to whether you need a TRS(1/4") or XLR(mic style) cable though.

If you were to ask this stuff over at the home recording forum you would get alot of responses, btw.
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sfumato
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« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2006, 01:28:28 AM »


Now what happens though when I also want to record via my intermal pickup.? I want to be sure to get a box that will do both pickup and mic...call it future-proofing. What options to i have?


Crunchy - I really think you should take a look at the PreSonus TubePre that I mentioned earlier.  I ended up getting this over other choices because of its functionality, price and good reviews.  It should be able to provide you with the different recording options you've stated that you need, i.e., direct and mic'd.

Here is an in-depth review of it and you can find many more reviews simply by googling "review presonus tubepre":
http://www.sonicstate.com/articles/article.cfm?id=72

Hope this helps  -_-
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2006, 01:28:44 PM »

Hey Everyone

Stopped in at 12th Fret in Toronto to get some advice and although they aren't recording specialists they did suggest I look at these 2 devices
http://line6.com/toneport/overview.html          $259 Canadian..  seems to do all i need it to do.. love the ability to hook up some powered
speakers and use both by guitar pickup and mic at same time. I questioned them on the USB hookup because I had heard some bad stories but they said this one was rock solid as long as your computer is up to the task.

http://www.apexelectronics.com/index.php?tmp=4&id=76       ..nice condensor mic...  $80 Canadian.

Any thoughts on the HW above.

Also asked to have a go on their LSV-11...but i had just missed it..it walked out the door a few minutes ealer. More to come though!

Cheers..chris
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2006, 03:50:16 PM »

OK, so I am getting familiar with the need for a preamp..especially when using a condensor mic (phantom power)..but now you've mentioned this AD convertor thingy...WHAT the HECK is that?  Never head of a 2nd device between a preamp and computer. Can you send me a URL to one so I can see it.  Why do many preamps have a USB port for your computer of a AD convertor box is needed?

Thanks

Crunchy,

Sorry to confuse you.  You're wanting to create a home recording setup.  Here's what I said you need in my prior post:

For recording, you need a microphone (or two), a preamp (it will boost the signal enough - that's what it is designed to do), an AD converter (translates analog signals to digital) and a computer with appropraite software.  You also need a DA converter (translates digital back to analog) and a power amp and speakers (called reference monitors) to hear what you recorded.

There are products out there that combine some of these functions into one unit.  Take, for example, the Digidesign MBox2:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MBox2/

It includes 2 mic preamps, AD converters, DA converters and the recording/editing software, as in one product.

There are numerous similar products around:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FireBox/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US122/

There are also computer soundcards that are designed for audio which often contain most or all these functions too.

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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2006, 04:07:36 PM »

Crunchy,

Sorry to confuse you.  You're wanting to create a home recording setup.  Here's what I said you need in my prior post:

For recording, you need a microphone (or two), a preamp (it will boost the signal enough - that's what it is designed to do), an AD converter (translates analog signals to digital) and a computer with appropraite software.  You also need a DA converter (translates digital back to analog) and a power amp and speakers (called reference monitors) to hear what you recorded.

There are products out there that combine some of these functions into one unit.  Take, for example, the Digidesign MBox2:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MBox2/

It includes 2 mic preamps, AD converters, DA converters and the recording/editing software, as in one product.

There are numerous similar products around:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FireBox/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US122/

There are also computer soundcards that are designed for audio which often contain most or all these functions too.



Hi

Thanks for all the info.  The LINE 6 seems to do all that (minus the AMP part because it does say i need a pair of powered speakers)

But to just record via condensor mic to computer the specs just show the LINE 6 Toneport in the middle. It must be doing all the analog to Digital conversion. The website for it has a diagram of hookups and there are no other devices other than the Toneport. Am i missing something.?

Thanks
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2006, 06:15:16 PM »

I'd stay away from the Line 6 stuff for recording an acoustic guitar.  The product you listed is not quite what you need.
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Gemnoc
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« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2006, 06:17:52 PM »

Hey Wacko,

I went to my favorite music store last night and asked about home recording and came out confused. :UND>

According to the tech guy there, a minimal set-up providing acceptable results would cost 700$CAN (not including the 15% taxes!). Ouch! He told me a good condenser mic was 300$, preamp 200$, basic sound card 125$, and don't forget a good mic stand, don't want to drop that mic. (US readers just divide by 1.2 for USD)

He even said that for 100$, it was better to buy a dynamic mic rather than a condenser.

I wouldn't mind spending that kind of money, if I knew that I would keep at it. I sometimes shift my interests very quickly. :rolleyes:
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2006, 06:49:12 PM »

A $1,000 initial budget for a basic home recording setup in probably a minimum amount.  Some folks get by with less but they do this by not building the basic setup completely.  A frequent "cost cutting" step is to not buy reference monitors, choosing instead to use a home stereo or simple headphones for monitoring.  Bad move.  To many in the know, the monitoring chain is the most important part of any studio because it allows you to hear what is being recorded, mixed, etc.
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drathbun
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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2006, 07:35:33 PM »

Hey Wacko,

I went to my favorite music store last night and asked about home recording and came out confused. :UND>

According to the tech guy there, a minimal set-up providing acceptable results would cost 700$CAN (not including the 15% taxes!). Ouch! He told me a good condenser mic was 300$, preamp 200$, basic sound card 125$, and don't forget a good mic stand, don't want to drop that mic. (US readers just divide by 1.2 for USD)

He even said that for 100$, it was better to buy a dynamic mic rather than a condenser.

I wouldn't mind spending that kind of money, if I knew that I would keep at it. I sometimes shift my interests very quickly. :rolleyes:

Don't listen to salespeople. This kind of elitist recording snob stuff alway makes me mad. You don't need to purchase the finest equipment right off the bat to get "acceptable results". That's BS. It is all subjective anyway. My advice is to start small and affordable and upgrade your equipment as you go.

Six years ago, I started with a Radio Shack $20 microphone plugged into a laptop computer and a free four track recording program. Were the results acceptable? Not by my standards today! But I learned a lot about recording! Slowly I improved my system. I upgraded the mic immediately (Apex dynamic) and purchased a M-Audio Audiophile sound card. Then a mixer, then better software (Sonar), then a condensor mic (Apex 425) and a tube preamp (Behringer MIC200).

So your tech guy says it is better to buy a dynamic for $100 rather than a $100 (cheap) condensor mic? Well listen to this recording:

http://www2.mtroyal.ca/~drathbun/MP3/tilltherewasyou.mp3

The vocal (my wife... she sang for free), the classical guitar lead (LaPatrie Etude $300 elcrapo deluxo), the acoustic rhythm track (Larrivee L05 hmm... okay, kinda acceptable) and the percussion track (me slapping a $0.99 box) was recorded by an Apex 425 condensor (OMG!! $100 POS!) into a Behringer Tube Preamp (ooh... ick... cheapo crap) into an Alto mixer ($125 POS!) into Sonar 4 Studio (anything less than Logic is crap). The bass was run direct into the Behringer.

Maybe it isn't "professional" quality, but it is certainly "acceptable" for my purposes.
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« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2006, 07:56:18 PM »

LOL, thanks for the advice Doug. And nice tune! -_-

I read again Little Brother's article on home recording. "Acceptable sound" is a relative notion and I think for now I can get by with something even crappier than your setup. :WNK>

Norm AKA Gemnoc
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« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2006, 08:08:31 PM »

A $1,000 initial budget for a basic home recording setup in probably a minimum amount.  Some folks get by with less but they do this by not building the basic setup completely.  A frequent "cost cutting" step is to not buy reference monitors, choosing instead to use a home stereo or simple headphones for monitoring.  Bad move.  To many in the know, the monitoring chain is the most important part of any studio because it allows you to hear what is being recorded, mixed, etc.
Hi Wacko, I'd have to agree with sdelsolray on this, but I do think $1K is a bit high.  Here's my home recording setup:
  • Behringer B2 Pro Large condensor mic -  $150
  • M-Audio Duo (USB Digital/analog interface) $250
  • Alesis M1 MKII active  monitors - $349
  • Total: $750

I use nTrack, but Audacity should be fine.

You can wait on the monitors, but your mixing will suffer. 

Here's a sample recording of the above setup.  It is exaclty how thiis guitar sounds live.
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=10959.0

I'd be glad to talk more.  PM me or we can talk on the phone.

David
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2006, 08:25:30 PM »

Hi Wacko, I'd have to agree with sdelsolray on this, but I do think $1K is a bit high.  Here's my home recording setup:
  • Behringer B2 Pro Large condensor mic -  $150
  • M-Audio Duo (USB Digital/analog interface) $250
  • Alesis M1 MKII active  monitors - $349
  • Total: $750

I use nTrack, but Audacity should be fine.

You can wait on the monitors, but your mixing will suffer. 

Here's a sample recording of the above setup.  It is exaclty how thiis guitar sounds live.
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=10959.0

I'd be glad to talk more.  PM me or we can talk on the phone.

David

Hey David

Thanks for posting your setup and the link to the recording.  Nice work!

As you can probably tell from my posts, its the device in the middle, between the mic  and the computer I am trying to nail down.

I've been given lots of product names,  but its the FUNCTION of that device I am trying to understand.  For now...forget about the monitors. I just want to get it from my strings to the harddrive using a condensor mic.

I don't think the M-audio duo is sold anymore since I don't see it on their website, but their Mobile Recording  page seems to have lots of products like it that allow recording from a mic/pickup to a computer.  I know it can be done with 1 device..but all these great folks keep mentioning different devices/terms.  My head is spinning and the wall next to my computer has a dent in it.

Cheers..chris
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