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Author Topic: condensor mic  (Read 13473 times)
Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2006, 02:04:56 AM »

So that means I would benefit from upgrading to the FireWire 410... Or that I should have put more money in the mic. Well, there goes another chunk of my overtime money. :WNK>

This Neumann mic has a pretty steep mV/Pa to $ ratio. ^_^

I'm acutally wondering if the better route is a passive pickup and staying with the lower cost units.? 

I am guessing that the pickup won't record any of the computer hum/fan..and you have more play with the gain..don't have to worry about a mic stand or placement. Not sure about the sound quality though.

Does anyone have a sample recording of a K&K or equal pickup using one of these all-in-1 devices to a computer?

Cheers..chris
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2006, 03:37:11 AM »

So that means I would benefit from upgrading to the FireWire 410... Or that I should have put more money in the mic. Well, there goes another chunk of my overtime money. :WNK>

This Neumann mic has a pretty steep mV/Pa to $ ratio. ^_^

The FIrewire 410 gets good reviews and is adequate for home recording tasks.  Just for fun, take a look at this product:

http://www.pendulumaudio.com/MDP-1.html

It's one of the finest microphone preamps on the planet - a world class high end preamp.  I only ask you to look at it briefly for comparison purposes.

Now, if you're getting into recording, even on the budget level, you'll end up spending somewhere near $1,000, at a minimum to get all the basic equipment that is necessary to record, mix, etc., and that's not counting the computer cost.  So relax.  It's a great hobby.
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Gemnoc
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« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2006, 03:56:30 AM »

Just for fun, take a look at this product:

http://www.pendulumaudio.com/MDP-1.html

It's one of the finest microphone preamps on the planet - a world class high end preamp.  I only ask you to look at it briefly for comparison purposes.
Well, compared to the Neumann mic... It's a steal! :WNK>

Odd: this MDP-1 has a gain level of only 30dB? (+33 to +63) :huh:

The voice of reason tells me the FastTrack is more than enough for my purpose and skills. But the 410 is tempting.

I'm going back to the store tomorrow to get the 5/8-27 to 3/8-16 thread adapter for the mic. I'll sleep on it.
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Gemnoc
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« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2006, 04:20:38 AM »

I'm acutally wondering if the better route is a passive pickup and staying with the lower cost units.? 

I am guessing that the pickup won't record any of the computer hum/fan..and you have more play with the gain..don't have to worry about a mic stand or placement. Not sure about the sound quality though.
Mine has the factory-installed B-Band A5. I guess it's an active pickup. I plugged it directly to my computer soundcard and found the sound was not to my liking. Sort of "metallic" sound. Somehow the general consensus is, the best way to record is with a mic, pickup is for stage. Anyway, I've got a 12-string un-amplified that I want to record, hence my purchase...
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2006, 04:24:34 AM »

Mine has the factory-installed B-Band A5. I guess it's an active pickup. I plugged it directly to my computer soundcard and found the sound was not to my liking. Sort of "metallic" sound. Somehow the general consensus is, the best way to record is with a mic, pickup is for stage. Anyway, I've got a 12-string un-amplified that I want to record, hence my purchase...

Hi

Is it possible to plug your pickup into the M-audio and bypass the mic?  I'd just like to hear the difference. 

What about having both mic and pickup   

chris
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Gemnoc
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« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2006, 04:31:58 AM »

The dual-source was actually in my plans.

I'll do both tests tomorrow.

BTW I went to the Larrivée website for some info on my pickup. It uses as a source an UST (under saddle transducer). Not sure how it compares to the K&K.
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2006, 07:17:38 AM »

Well, compared to the Neumann mic... It's a steal! :WNK>

Odd: this MDP-1 has a gain level of only 30dB? (+33 to +63) :huh:

The voice of reason tells me the FastTrack is more than enough for my purpose and skills. But the 410 is tempting.

I'm going back to the store tomorrow to get the 5/8-27 to 3/8-16 thread adapter for the mic. I'll sleep on it.

The MDP-1's gain "range" is 30dB.  Notice the output attenuator too.  In essense there are two volume controls for each channel.  The first is the gain, in 3dB increments over a 30dB range.  The output attenuator goes from 0 to 10.  Since the unit produces a minimum of 33dB gain to begin with, you can have 0dB gain to 63dB gain depending on how you set the gain and output controls.
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ronmac
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« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2006, 09:27:42 AM »

Gemnoc the equipment you have will do as good a job as anything else you can buy within the stated budget. If you want to start piling on dough it is easy to get better specs.
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Ron

sdelsolray
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« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2006, 04:27:45 PM »

Well, with 40dB of gain max, you'll at least get to learn about signal to noise ratio.
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Gemnoc
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« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2006, 01:08:43 AM »

[Slow 12-bar blues shuffle in E]
Well I've got the home recording blues
Yeah Baby!
...
[/shuffle]
[/size]

I went to the store this afternoon to replace the FastTrack for the FireWire 410. So you can stop hitting the nail sdelsolray. ^_^

Took some fiddling to get it to work. At first I had no power going through the thing. I checked that the unit was not defective by plugging it to the AC adapter. It was alimented all right, so that was a computer problem. Next I checked M-Audio's KB and learned that this device is compatible with IEEE 1394a and B, but not the earlier generation of chipsets which are 1394 only. I wasn't sure what I had since my PC is 3 years old, and never used the thing. I checked my motherboard user's manual, 1394a it says. Few, I won't have to buy a FireWire PCI card! It then occured to me to check if the front FireWire port was actually plugged to the motherboard (hey with PC-clones expect the unexpected)... Had to turn off the PC, unplug the gazillion wires, open the case... Bingo. The only ports working are the 2 at the back of the PC. :rolleyes:

Afterwards it was pretty straightforward, but I'll need a longer FireWire cable because the one supplied is insanely short and my PC is on the floor below the desk.

Tried it... World of difference with the added gain available. I can now record with the guitar 12 inches or more from the mic without it sounding thin. Input gain level knob at three-quarter. Headroom is good. :WNK>

I've got a new mic stand (the previous one was too tall to record while sitting), the mic thread adapter issue was resolved... ashamed to admit it was already screwed into the mic bracket, I only needed to remove it to get the larger thread. How dumb... :rolleyes:

I'm all set-up to record now.

Thanks for your comments guys!
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sdelsolray
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« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2006, 01:16:06 AM »

Good move.  I'll put the hammer away.  Really, though, gain and headroom are good things - the more the better.  Plus you get versitility (ability to move mics farther away if you want, you can use dynamics mics, better signal to noise ratio, etc.).
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2006, 01:56:53 AM »

Ok...let's here a demo!!  We've know what the old setup is like. :)  Give us your best Tommy E tune. At least some stumming and picking.

Sounds like I am saving for the 410.  OT here I come.
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ronmac
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« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2006, 11:42:08 AM »

I'm glad too hear that you are getting the results you want with the new device. Sometimes it is necessary to adjust the budget to meet your expectations.
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Ron

Gemnoc
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« Reply #113 on: April 09, 2006, 03:12:54 PM »

Thanks ronmac. But buying stuff that exceeds my needs or my skills seems to be a tendancy of late, starting with the purchase of my Larrivée. :GRN>

Crunchy, don't forget to allow in your budget $20-30 for a 6' FireWire cable, unless you plan on putting the interface besides or on top of your CPU. The cable supplied is only 3'.

One minor annoyance: although you can "hot-plug" a FireWire device, there's a warning in the box not to do so. It says "We strongly encourage you to protect your equipment by refraining from hot-plugging any bus-powered FireWire device, including the M_Audio family of FireWire products." Apparently, there have been isolated occurences where the device or the FireWire port of the host computer or both were rendered permanently inoperable. That means I have to power down the computer, power up the M-Audio and then turn the computer on.
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2006, 03:34:19 PM »

Thanks for the advice Gemnoc.

Glad to hear everything has worked out and appreciate all the work you have done! :)
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Don't just practice -  practice  RIGHT!

Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #115 on: April 09, 2006, 04:43:05 PM »

Gemnoc

I see the diagram for the 410 on the m-audio website shows a connection to a Surround sound Receiver. Does this imply you can hook it up to your home theatre and hear it over those speakers?

Thanks
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2005 Larrivee L-03R "Elle"
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Don't just practice -  practice  RIGHT!

Gemnoc
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« Reply #116 on: April 09, 2006, 05:46:58 PM »

I believe so.

While the FastTrack was pretty simple, the FW 410 is a lot more complex. The software control panel allows for many configurations with the outpout and input levels through virtual knobs and levers. I must confess I'm at a loss there and left it with the default settings. Again, the documentation is unsatisfying to the neophyte that I am. :UND>

Build quality is top. The FT casing was made of molded plastic. The FW410 has a silver painted plastic faceplate but a dark grey sheetmetal casing (I work for a custom metal products manufacturing company so I'm a little biased toward well, metal :GRN>). Very nice look.
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Gemnoc
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« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2006, 02:36:38 AM »

Well Crunchy Wacko, there's one sample of a cliché song. :rolleyes:

One track is a 12-string Aria, 2 tracks my LV.

Download page

The volume levels are all wrong. I don't know how to adjust that. And there's no noise reduction on the software supplied with the M-Audio! (Ableton Live Lite 5) I'll have to revert to another software that allows more editing. A coworker told me he'll give me Cakewalk 8 with serial (for free!), as he works on Cubase now. Is that old? It's not listed on Cakewalk's website.
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Crunchy Wacko
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« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2006, 03:16:20 AM »

Awesome job!! Besides the levels being  a bit off..the sound is great. Lots of fullness on the lower end. Sounds like you have a great setup Gemnoc. Is that the first time doing multiple tracks?
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2005 Larrivee L-03R "Elle"
2005 Seagull S6+ Spruce -"Doc"
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Don't just practice -  practice  RIGHT!

Gemnoc
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« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2006, 03:22:04 AM »

Thanks.

I've made attempts at the same song last week with the FastTrack and my 6-string only. Just built up the courage to change the strings on the old Aria this afternoon. I believe the previous set had been there for 5 years, at least. It's my little sister's guitar that I borrowed since she doesn't play anymore. Some songs demand to be played on a 12-string! :GRN>
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1998 Fender American Std Stratocaster
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