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Author Topic: $192,100 but reserve not met.  (Read 6724 times)
C-10-4-me
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2006, 12:57:09 AM »

Now up to $204,900.00!!
If I could afford this guitar I doubt I could ever turn loose of it. I have wanted a D-45 for about 30 years now, and looking at this guitar makes me want one even more. Of course, I'd have to buy a poor man's D-45 and this one is not in that category!
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mdrulez
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2006, 03:24:35 AM »

i wonder what the Martin D-100 will get on ebay in 50 years.  ^_^
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2006, 04:24:13 AM »

this is crazy........ are we talking about RUPEES or wat or maybe RUPIAH......great americans spirit....
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2006, 12:14:22 PM »

US $215,200.00 and still the reserve is not met!!!

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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2006, 06:03:21 PM »

This is an investment piece for sure. I doubt it will ever be played again and that's just too bad. I didn't see any mention of how it sounds or it's playability. The little secret about pre-war Martins is that not all of them were stellar souinding guitars and are still not stelllar sounding guitars. Probably all very good instruments. Just not all with that elusive mojo. I'd laugh if this super collectors item was no better sounding than a current issue Martin Golden Era instrument. I'd suspect the investor who buys it cares nothing about it's tone. In the vault and out of sight.
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Acoustickler
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 06:29:01 PM »

This is an investment piece for sure. I doubt it will ever be played again and that's just too bad...I'd suspect the investor who buys it cares nothing about it's tone. In the vault and out of sight.

Unless the buyer's a stinkin' rich recording artist, which is possible.  They say that one of the forces driving up prices on vintage axes in the past was the Rolling Stones team combing America for prime vintage instruments with big chequebooks...

Cheers,
B.
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Ratishna
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 08:33:56 PM »

I don't know who "they" are who say the Rolling Stones team drove up prices on vintage guitars, but it isn't true.  Rich musicians have always been only a small part of the group who buy lots of vintage instruments.

E. Shoaf
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Acoustickler
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2006, 09:14:02 PM »

I don't know who "they" are who say the Rolling Stones team drove up prices on vintage guitars, but it isn't true.  Rich musicians have always been only a small part of the group who buy lots of vintage instruments.

E. Shoaf

Hi Ratishna,

I think you read too much into what I said.  I said "one of the forces".  Clearly we agree rich musicians are part of the market.  Perhaps you take issue with what portion of the market they constitute.  I have no first hand knowledge of that, nor did I purport to.  I'd be interested and happy to see any info you have on the breakdown of who buys these vintage guitars. 

The "they" I was referring to in my post were the authors of several published articles I've read.  One I saw recently (IIRC) reported a discussion between people in the vintage guitar market, who referred to the Rolling Stones American tours over the years as "vacuum cleaners" sucking up vintage instruments along the way.

Cheers,
B.
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Acoustickler
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2006, 09:24:48 PM »

This was the quote from Jim Washburn's recent MSN article:

"Just how much can a guitar possibly be worth?

The question came up as several top vintage-guitar dealers sat at a picnic table backstage at a Rolling Stones concert in Arizona on a December day in 1981. They were guests of Keith Richards' guitar tech, Alan Rogan, who, along with keeping Richards' guitars in tune, was charged with obtaining more rare ones for his collection. As with other guitar-driven bands, a Stones tour was like a huge vacuum cleaner sucking up America's rare instruments, and these dealers were the bristles."


I've seen similar comments before elsewhere.

Cheers,
B.
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Ratishna
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2006, 02:00:32 AM »

KR doesn't have a huge stable of guitars.  Rick Neilson used to, but he has sold off many.  Slash has over 50 Les Pauls, Steve Howe has maybe 100.  Randy Bachman has his 300 or so Gretches but he is the only well-known Rock musician that has that many guitars, to my knowledge.  Malmsteen talks about having hundreds of Strats but I don't know about that guy.

I've been closely associated with the vintage guitar market for over 20 years.  My expereince is this: it isn't musicians with the big collections, its other guys.  Its the guy up in New Hampshire with 1500+, the guy in Philly with 600+, the guy I met at the big Dallas show a few years back who beat me to a lap steel deal but who bought me a beer because it was the 1,000th instrument he was adding to his collection and he wanted to celebrate.   Nice guy, he was in his early 60s and still acquiring.  I know these people and I know what they have.  They have a LOT of nice guitars.  Chinery had over 1200 when he died, and he had been selling some of the lower quality ones for some time.

Musicians see guitars as tools of the trade.  KR uses his guitars in the studio.  They don't keep hundreds and hundreds of guitars, and for the most part they use them.  Collectors have a different agenda and are more interested in building a collection around a theme or simply in acquiring more and better instruments.  Most play, but a few don't.

Dealers in 1981 would have been more than pleased to have the Stones crew buying prime collectible guitars, since the bottom had pretty much fallen out of the retail guitar market at that time (remember the transition to synth music?).  Dealers were also happy to sell to Japanese, German, and other foreign buyers.  They might give lip service to how it was wrong to sell off Americana outside the borders but I never knew any to turn down a sale.  Most still don't, and it doesn't matter.  As we learned with the Tsumura sell-off, guitars from Japan *do* come back to the USA.  In that case we're talking about several hundred prime vintage collectibles.

To me, the discussion of this particular D-45 leads to the same place any discussion of high prices for vintage guitars does:  that it somehow isn't fair to players that those great old collectible guitars cost so much and that regular players can't afford to play them.  This has always sounded like jealousy to me.  You know, the haves versus the have-nots.  I'm definitely part of the latter group.  I'm a  regular guy with a mortgage and kids to support.  I've got a few guitars.  Okay, more than a few, and some are nice vintage examples, but I got mine a long time ago.  No big deal.  Let the people with money spend it on whatever they want.  You want a nice guitar?  Buy a new Larrivee or any of dozens of other makes.  There have never been more quality guitars available.  They may not have that vintage "mojo" but they sound and play extremely well.

I've played a lot of pre-war Martins over the years, including 2 of the vaunted pre-war D-45s like the one for sale on ebay.  Most of them were fine sounding and playing the guitars. One was the finest I've ever played.  Worth over $200K   YES!!  I believe so.   If, that's *if* you have the money.  I don't, so I don't care what it sells for except as a benchmark for the market.  I like the guitars I have just fine. I don't really need another.  Play yours some tonight and you'll probably feel the same way.

There will always be people with more money than you or me.  That's life. If they choose to spend some on guitars, why should we whine about it?

I generally keep a low profile on this board.  I think I'll go back and hibernate for a while now.

E. Shoaf
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Tycho
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« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2006, 02:43:36 AM »

I don't really understand collectors with way more guitars than they can play.  I'm nudging 20 now, and that's getting me nervous.  If I played out more than I do, I could maybe see having more, but as it is some of my guitars have never seen a stage.

On the subject of stars, the article on John Fogerty in Vintage Guitar said he had some very large number, I can't remember what it was.  But he also said he sold quite a few at Gruhn's when he was living in Nashville.

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Acoustickler
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« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2006, 03:27:36 AM »


There will always be people with more money than you or me.  That's life. If they choose to spend some on guitars, why should we whine about it?

I generally keep a low profile on this board.  I think I'll go back and hibernate for a while now.

E. Shoaf

Hey there,

Not sure how much of your post was directed to me, but I am in complete agreement with you on what I'll call the economics of the situation.  I have not and will not criticize others for how they spend their money.  I don't care how much people spend on a collectible or how many of an item they have in their collections.  FWIW, on this BB and anywhere else, I'll back you on everything you said there.

I don't know who or what would drive you into hibernation, but I sure hope it wasn't me.  My only point on this thread is that we don't *know* who will end up with this guitar.  So before we bemoan its loss to the "vault" we would have to know it won't end up in a studio held by Neil Young.  Or Clapton.  Or...   There are only 71 of these guitars known to exist, so it stood to reason to me that an acoustic-playing recording artist with money to burn might well want this - and have the bucks to get it.  And even if it is going to the "vault", is it our business?  Not really.

Cheers,
B.
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« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2006, 03:55:59 AM »

It's amazing at how much you can tell about someone on the other transactions they have made.  Go check out the higher bidder's items.....
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Acoustickler
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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2006, 04:01:23 AM »

Well the high bidder right now ($216,000) says he was in George Jones' band in 2000.

Cheers,
B.
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« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2006, 07:20:14 AM »

$$$$$  217,100.00       reserve still not met        :huh:

 :mellow:
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« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2006, 02:34:51 PM »

If it doesn't make reserve, you'll never know how high the seller valued it.  But you'll know how the market did.

E. Shoaf
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inspector13
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« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2006, 03:11:46 PM »

$218,100.01   (Reserve not met) 
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« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2006, 04:20:49 PM »

I would venture that the reserve is at least $225,000. Happy bidding.
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« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2006, 02:19:12 AM »

It is sure an entertaining topic. The truth is that in my little world it means less to me than the new traffic light out on the highway. I do find it interesting that it can evoke so much emotion. I think it's just fine if a three chord banger buys it, or a collector who hides it in a vault, or if Jim Hurst buys it and plays it for all it is worth. It's also just fine if it really steams up some people to see it go where they don't want it to. They are entitled to their opinion as much as the guy with the deep pockets is entitled to take it home. If ebay figures out that people are enjoying watching and speculating on these types of auctions they might start charging for the entertainment.
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« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2006, 02:57:28 AM »

I think it would be hilarious, If Bill Gates or some other rich guy buys it...Then smashes it at a bluegrass festival in front of all kinds of Martinheds.
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