Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Recording, Pickups, Live Sound, etc. => Topic started by: djsonovox on July 22, 2005, 06:20:03 PM

Title: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: djsonovox on July 22, 2005, 06:20:03 PM
...and a rubber feedback buster plug has to be there to stop it!

I removed the glued-in piezo pads and did the double stick tape bit. That added more treble, but man, that bass roar feedback is awful. I am thinking of going to the K & K Twin pads, putting one out in the wood below the treble end of the bridge. The real root of this problem is the endpin jack/amp. It has a heck of a bass bosst in it to make up for the overly bright tone of undersaddles. Maybe I will swap it out for a preamp I built from scratch.

Doug J

Title: Re: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: LookingForLarri on July 23, 2005, 02:36:00 AM

 While researching K&K versus iBeam today I ran across this at comment over at Harmony Central that addresses a strong bass response.

 Hello, this is Dieter from K&K. I thought that I should write this in order to clarify some issues regarding higher stage volume. The Pure Western IS capable of quite substantial stage volume. Rock bands like Tom Petty are using it. But I highly recommend the use of a soundhole-plug if you play the Pure with a band. The Pure has a very strong bass response, stronger that most other pickups. This may cause boominess if you don't know how to counteract this. Some players set the EQ to a center position and wonder why the Pure sounds so "bassy". Please be aware of this fact and simply turn DOWN the bass especially in higher volume situations. There is another issue which has to do with input impedance. Most acoustic amps are geared towards undersaddle pickups and have extremely high impedance inputs (5-10 megs or more). This technically beefs up the weaker bass response of undersaddle pickups. With the Pure this is overkill ! But again, if you simply turn down the bass, it should be fine with most acoustic amps. On my Ultrasound I.E. I have to turn down the bass ALL THE WAY. But then it sounds absolutely great ! Of course there are guitars which are more prone to feedback than others. I did not yet find out why. We installed Pure pickups in many guitars and we had I.E. some Taylors and Martins which played very loud before feedback. On the other hand, undersaddle pickups still beat the Pure in respect to stage volume. This is why we introduced the K&K PowerBlend Pure system, a combination of our undersaddle pickup and the Pure. The best out of both worlds. The Pure is foremost designed for natural tone. If your main goal is high stage volume please consider the PowerBlend Pure system rather that the Pure alone.

Maybe a tech support call is in order  ?  :huh:

Title: Re: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: djsonovox on July 23, 2005, 03:52:08 AM
I have been mulling this over all day, and there are several solutions for this:

I can wire in a Barcus Berry I have that is trebly in the extreme, and only use one K & K pad in place.

Or I can pull the Baggs preamp pin out and instll an old EMG I had in an acoustic 12 which I intend to switch to nickel strings with a mag pickup. Or both! I miss some of the treble egde on this guitar when amplifying it. Rolling off the bass is NOT an option, since at small gigs we premix two voices and two guitars then tap out a feed to the house system in a large restaurant. The other guitar--a Tacoma DR20--is very bright and needs all the bass I can muster.

So I need to balance this Larrivee. It is better with the stickup instead of the glue applied to the pads, but I think removing two pads and replacing it with a McIntire piezo or the Barcus will blance the thing out.

Or, 3rd solution:
Install an undersaddle pickup and that's that. The bass boost will balance the sound.
Except I won't cos I hate undersaddles! They stink, in my humble opinion. I want the woody sound of the spruce top, not that in-yer-face offence from a pickup under the bone.
So I will be working today and tomorrow to sound good for Sunday.

Or solution 4:
Put K & K's in the Tacoma. Then roll the darn things both off!!


Title: Re: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: Escalibore on July 23, 2005, 11:01:30 AM
I had the same problem with the K&Ks, but much of it I attribute to my playing environment. I had purchased the PW preamp but had to replace it with a Baggs Feedback Master. It took care of the feedback but doesn't sound quite as good as the PW preamp. Still, I'm glad I bought it.

Title: Re: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: el guitana on July 23, 2005, 11:06:07 AM
Timely stuff for me - had to send my PADI back to Baggs yesterday for warranty work and I'll have to go direct to PA tonight. I'll put a critical eye on the bass knob.

Title: Re: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: djsonovox on July 24, 2005, 12:37:56 AM

I de-soldered one of the pads of the trip;e set K & K calls Western Mini-Pure. Attached one to the right of the high E, under the top with polyester double-stick. The other I trimmed a foam maounting pad and applied directly under the low A string! The foam cut the bass, and the stickum one far from the low strings gets just enough bass to sound full, and now it only begins to feedback at higher volumes, which can them be rolled off by cutting the bass on the amp!
Thanks goodness. I have to perform tomorrow...

I put the extra pad soldered in parallel with the Tacoma DR20RE's undersaddle, which fattened up the bass and made it a lot more wood-like and natural sounding.

UPDATE: Works perfeclty! This is the way to go. The one inder the bridge bone is stuck there with mounting foam, while the other is attached with polyester sticky tape (actually just the stickum, with no tape).
I gigged with it with great tone balance and zero feedback. And it sounds real, and vibrant as you could want.

Title: Re: Bad bass feedback in an D-03R with K & K Mini-Pure
Post by: Randy_R on July 24, 2005, 01:50:32 PM
Lots of interesting ideas show up on this forum related to electronics.

Sounds like an inovative way to resolve your issue.