tmeinke
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I recently played a D-09E and really liked it. I've read some reviews on harmony-central.com and epinion.com that suggest a quality control issue with some guitars. Does anyone know if Larrivee has addressed this or made any recent attempts to correct the problems?
I'm very interested in the product, but I'd like to get some information beforehand.
Thanks,
Tod Meinke
zselby
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With anything that is mass produced, there will always be some bad products. Now if there are a lot of guitars with issues, thats another thing, but I don't think thats the case.
Another thing to keep in mind is that guitars can change dramatically depending on the conditions. If a shop takes poor care of their guitars, every one in the shop could have problems. Many times this is wrongly blamed on the builder.
I've heard some stories of problems with Larrivees, but I've heard the same thing about almost every other brand of guitar made. If its a new guitar, I wouldn't worry becuase Larrivee will take care of any problems. If its used, you have no idea what the previous owner did, so thats just part of the risk.
tmeinke
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zselsby,
You raise valid points. But, when I read about Martins and Taylors, I don't see the same level of QC complaints on the review sites. That's why I've posted the question because I would like to know if there's a genuine problem, and if so, if it's been addressed.
I'm not trying to be critical of the company, but I would like further information if possible.
Tod
MilleniumOM
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The closest thing to a QC gripe I can discern is that the guitars were coming out with horrid setups for a while. (To be fair, my standards for a setup pretty stringent). There was quite a bit of labor turmoil at Larrivee and production *did* suffer but I don't think they sent out anything they wouldn't want their name on. As opposed to '70-'80's Martins and 30 years of Gibson production, Larrivee has demonstrated a high standard of product consistency. I think some of the rumors originate from GC management to try and turn Larrivee customers to whatever they're selling at the time.
zselby
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In reading the Martin and Taylor forums daily, I've seen quite a few complaints about quality control on both brands. I don't think Larrivee is any worse. I will agree with the guitars coming out with bad setups, but that seems to be fixed. The action may be set a little higher from the factory than most people like, but it also can help in getting better sound. Unless there is a construction problem that causes the bad setup, a lot of it comes down to personal preferences.
Mybronda1
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I don't think "bad setups" should be classified as poor quality control. I have to adjust neck, nut and saddle on every guitar I have purchased. The setup is a personal preference thing . . . I happen to like low action with very little neck relief, but that's me. Others like em high - bluegrass pickers for example.
So, that's my final answer and I'm sticking to it.
MilleniumOM
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Whether the action is high or low *is* a matter of personal prefence however, really poor intonation is not. My custom shop OMV came with horrid intonation and required a fairly major fret leveling right out of the box. Had I been a store owner buying that guitar for resale I would have sent it back but since it had unique features for my tastes I elected to invest in having it repaired correctly. There aren't many Larrivee dealers left in the Seattle area so I don't have much of a sense as to whether this is an ongoing problem but I would prefer to think it was a fairly isolated instance during a tough period for the company.
Elbody
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To my Point Of View?? All have a very consistent QA Control... I think its the Consumer mainly that are a little bit perfectionist and die hard knitpickers along with meticulous individual critic wannabe who are the culprits here. I guess nobody ever heard of the word " Nobody's / Nothing is Perfect " ???? These are just mainly called upon to get a response or start a nonworthy conversation. But in the other hand ... I like the spirit for it gives us all something alike to share a few Constructive Critizism within ourselves/forum...Lets not Spam/Troll like the other sites and use our better if not best judgement to have a worthy conversation and opinions.
Peace to all!!!! Glad to be here!!!
Mybronda1
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O.K. I have to make an addendem to my previous post. I too had a problem with level frets. (as a matter of fact, I will be picking up my L-05 from my local luthier in about 3 hours) I was getting some "buzzing" especially at fret number 6. After checking with a straight edge, I found several frets needing leveling form the 3rd through 17th.
But, I also had to take two Taylors in for some "minor" fret leveling too.
Believe it or not, my new Guild D-55 did not need any frets leveled or dressed! It did, however need nut, neck and saddle adjustments.
This, however, is not an intonation issue, that would relate to poorly space frets or a saddle in need of compensation adjustments.
zselby
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I'd have to agree with MilleniumOM. It's one thing if someone said "Larrivees suck" or something. It's completely different to bring up a problem that a new guitar you bought had. If I bought a brand new guitar, I wouldn't be all that happy if it required work that cost money. I don't think its nitpicking or being a perfectionists to expect a new guitar to be playable and stay in tune. I agree that nothing is perfect, but that doesn't mean the problems can't/shouldn't be discussed.
I've yet to see anything in this thread or any others on this forum that looked like spam or trolling.
MilleniumOM
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The unfortunate thing about production guitars is that the fretwork is usually the weakest part. It requires a fair amount of meticulous attention to detail to do well. When Mike Lull (my favorite fretwork God) does a fret job the quality is immediately apparent from the first chord or run you play but it can cost $300-400 dollars. If the factory did that they'd price themselves out of the market but once you've seen the difference it can make the high price starts making more sense than buying a more expensive guitar.
MilleniumOM
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Quote:
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If I bought a brand new guitar, I wouldn't be all that happy if it required work that cost money.
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Well, in my opinion *every* guitar needs some work at first, if for no other reason than to tailor the action to your taste and style. I don't think a major fret leveling falls under that category. That said, I would be skeptical of the "free setup" done by the dealers. Most times this is done by a salesperson on the counter using improper tools. Sometimes they come out OK, often not as good as it could be. I would suffer though the dealer setup for a few months until your guitar settles in then take it to a good tech for a proper setup. The difference is worth every dime, even on a low end guitar.
Elbody
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After reading different opinions from different sites and forum? This is usually a start of something out of topic, I'm merely saying is that.We/I should create something Constructive without the other behalf or party being neglected of what the real queery/question being asked.
Keep up the great sense of humour as we will go far and wide with this FORUM. I've called no shots here and nobody should be offended.There are certain situation that the goods/part are not really up too par somewhere/sometime.As a band member and a guitar/vocalist? I've come across in my time of hearing the same reason such as this and that are not done/cut well.This is where i believe where your journey comes in to fully utilized,nevermind customization of your GEAR comes in.Information are being shared in this forum as to ideas also. Lets keep up the Constructive critizism clean and healthy..
Peace to all and lets tweak out signature sound for all of us here care for one another.
zselby
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When I said that about buying a new guitar that needed work, I didn't mean setups. I meant more along the lines of fret leveling. I know it didn't sound that way.
Mybronda1
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As a follow-up . . .
I picked up my L-05 yesterday evening after having the frets leveled and I must say, a great improvement. Like I mentioned earlier, I prefer a low action (and use Elixer Nanoweb lights on it). I was getting some annoying buzzing at the 2nd, 3rd and 5th frets and now they're gone. Of course, if I play it too hard it will buzz . . . but so do my other acoustics, that's to be expected.
I feel this particular guitar is going to become my all around do everything instrument . . . a great strummer, flat picking, and an excellent finger picker. Not only a great playing guitar, but damn good looking too!
Griff
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As Mybronda1 points up, it is up to the technicians at the point of sale to examine the guitar as shipped from the factory. If there are some problems with setup, they should catch it here and rectify it. The luthier from whom I buy most of my guitars (and who also works on them) tells me of some pretty nasty setups that come from guitar factories that take him hours to fix. It isn't always the fault of the factory. It could be the shipper or the handlers along the way. I once took home a 12-string Larrivee that had obviously been left out in the rain on the loading dock. The humidity inside the case was around 80%. Naturally the setup was atrocious!
So, if you have a problem with you guitar, take it back to the guy who sold it to you until he gets it right!
Griff
MilleniumOM
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The problem is that finding a good tech in a retail outlet is pretty rare. The Seattle dealer/distributor, Guitar Emporium, sends his setup work out to Mike Lull which ensures a top shelf setup but that's rare.
MilleniumOM
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The difference to me between a less-than-precise setup done by a sales dude in store and and a pro job is worth every dime of the added cost. Dusty Strings in Seattle has a top notch tech (John Saba) but alas, they don't sell Larrivees.
First, let me say that I am a Larrivee fan. I own 3 of them, and would own 4 if it weren't for the quality control problems they seem to be having. Also, I'd like to say the Larrivee has a great customer service rep that knows how to fix problems made by the factory. His name is Ricky Thompson.
So what problems have I seen? The first one wasn't with a guitar, but with the case. The neck rest was molded wrong, and my OMV-10K didn't sit in it very well. It was skewed to one side so that the headstock rested against the side of the case. Ricky had a replacement sent to me and even gave me a leather strap and T-shirt for my trouble. Very good resolution, but I shouldn't had had to deal with it.
While that was going on, I have ordered and received an LV-19 California Edition. This is the cool model with the palm tree headstock inlay and premium woods issued to commemorate their 1st year in the Oxnard factory. Unfortunately, there was a flaw underneath the finish on the neck at the headstock. It should have never left the factory. Here's a picture of it:
(http://home.earthlink.net/~cmemail/_uimages/lv19flaw3.jpg)
You can see it was pretty bad. To make a long story short, there never was a resolution to this problem. After a month of being promised the next perfect LV19 off the line, I gave up and cancelled the order. The dealer did get another one in, but he said it had a flaw also. I just gave up on that one completely.
And while all that was going on, I had yet another issue. It was with an LV-05MT, a truly gorgeous all mahogany model that is produced in very small numbers. It too had a finish flaw. This time it looked like a sanding mistake underneath the gloss finish. This too, should have never left the factory. The pic doesn't capture how much it stands out, but here it is:
(http://home.earthlink.net/~cmemail/_uimages/lv05flaw4.jpg)
The resolution to this one is still playing out, but here's a case where Larrivee has excelled in trying to correct their mistake. I was originally going to send the guitar back and have nothing to do with Larrivee again. But a couple things changed my mind. One, the guitar is really fantastic. Two, Ricky Thompson offered to have another LV-05MT built for me (since none are available), and let me keep the flawed on until it was ready. The dealer (Guitar Adoptions) offered to take the new guitar if I didn't like it for any reason at all. It was a no-lose situation for me, so I took the offer. And since they're building it from scratch, I added a couple things to it – abalone inlay on the top, and a Male Genie headstock inlay. It should be done in a few weeks, and I'm really looking forward to getting it.
So I'd say from my experience that there are indeed some QC issues at Larrivee. I really hope they get them worked out because I think they make a fine product. As I stated at the beginning of this post, I am a Larrivee fan. I posted this to hopefully help them see that they need to refocus their QC efforts and get back to making exceptional instruments consistently. (Especially the custom LV-05MT that's being made right now. ;) )
-CM-
I sure hope my OM-10 that's on the way doesn't have any problems. It will be the first Larrivee I've played out of the California plant. I have heard some bad things about California quality control, but I don't doubt that Larrivee will make it right if there is a problem.
:whistling:
Nobody wants to hear the warranty proceedure - Again, but here it is:
"In the event that you detect signs of defect or damage in your Larrivee guitar, please follow these steps to have the problem(s) addressed:
Consult Your Dealer
All Larrivee authorized dealers are qualified to advise you regarding the details of processing a repair or return. Contact your dealer first, before proceeding with any other action, to obtain a Return Authorization number. It is important to note that all returns must be preceded by a Return Authorization (RA) number. Returns that do not have a valid RA number number prominently displayed on the carton will be rejected and returned freight-collect to the point of origin. Obtaining an RA number is the responsibility of the dealer. Larrivee will not accept repair or return claims direct from end-user customers except in the event the dealer who originally sold the guitar is no longer accessible to that end user. If this is the case please call our number listed in the customer service section"
Most of the complaints (save that of a few actual finish mistakes) are dealer set up issues and in the day of on-line sales it's easy for the dealer to push everything back on Larrivee.
new larrivee owner and first response to a thread. i bought a used P-09 and found the finish to be lacking in quality. one area looked as though it had dust under the finish and a couple of areas had white in the grain under the finish. i am not overly particular about that sort of thing but since the thread is about quality control i figured i would respond. the guitar is a 06 model so any issues could have been solved by now. i really like the guitar and have found no other issues. :donut
Quote from: MCOOKOC on July 14, 2011, 09:12:44 AM
new larrivee owner and first response to a thread. i bought a used P-09 and found the finish to be lacking in quality. one area looked as though it had dust under the finish and a couple of areas had white in the grain under the finish. i am not overly particular about that sort of thing but since the thread is about quality control i figured i would respond. the guitar is a 06 model so any issues could have been solved by now. i really like the guitar and have found no other issues. :donut
Why did you buy the guitar if you didn't like the finish?
I am kind of curious as to why an 8 year old thread was ressurrected with no comment other than a whistling face. Seems like the perfect definition of a troll. Was it your way of attempting payback for Matthew's comments about bridge shaving vs neck reset?
Wow, very weird. :? Please lock this creepy resurrection.
Quote from: Dotneck on July 14, 2011, 09:33:57 AM
Why did you buy the guitar if you didn't like the finish?
Moreover, since he bought it USED, how does he know if the previous owner(s) even tried to have something done? I don't get this thread.
Quote from: Walkerman on July 14, 2011, 09:51:58 AM
Was it your way of attempting payback for Matthew's comments about bridge shaving vs neck reset?
Actually, I quite enjoyed the information Matthew provided in those comments. In fact, I took the 7mm specification for min bridge thickness and thinned my bridge to that spec. Combine that work with a slight depth increase in the saddle slot, a fretboard leveling and re radius, new frets, and a new bone nut and saddle and I now have a quite playable 000-60.
So what was the point in this thread with no comment?
Quote from: Walkerman on July 14, 2011, 11:03:21 AM
So what was the point in this thread with no comment?
If you must know, the point is I found it humorous that the first three pages of the Forum read pretty much the same as the last three pages.Like I said in a post from another old gem of a thread from way back: going through the old posts this morning kinda felt like being stuck in the movie Groundhog Day.
??????????????
:? :rolleye:
Quote from: GA-ME on July 14, 2011, 11:39:44 AM
If you must know, the point is I found it humorous that the first three pages of the Forum read pretty much the same as the last three pages.Like I said in a post from another old gem of a thread from way back: going through the old posts this morning kinda felt like being stuck in the movie Groundhog Day.
Seems clear enough. Many forums just recycle thread subjects and we are no exception. The one I'm getting tired of is "(I'm a newbie here and) I'd like to know how much this Larrivee is worth."
Quote from: prof_stack on July 14, 2011, 02:58:30 PM
The one I'm getting tired of is "(I'm a newbie here and) I'd like to know how much this Larrivee is worth."
That is probably more a function of how difficult things are for so many folks than anything else.
Quote from: GA-ME on July 14, 2011, 10:23:37 AM
Actually, I quite enjoyed the information Matthew provided in those comments. In fact, I took the 7mm specification for min bridge thickness and thinned my bridge to that spec. Combine that work with a slight depth increase in the saddle slot, a fretboard leveling and re radius, new frets, and a new bone nut and saddle and I now have a quite playable 000-60.
So then, Larrivee was right and you were wrong....
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=19771.msg175861#msg175861
Quote from: Walkerman on July 14, 2011, 03:08:18 PM
So then, Larrivee was right and you were wrong....
http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=19771.msg175861#msg175861
Uh, Larrivee never fixed that guitar so, no, they were not right. They simply shaved a bit of bridge and sent it back to me with the with basically the same playability it had when it went in. I'm not even going to try and discuss what was wrong with my 000-60 with you. You never held the guitar in your hands and even if you did, you don't know enough to have evaluated the instrument and what it needed. A couple of weeks ago you were asking the Forum what was involved with a basic set-up, yet a few years ago you were lecturing me about what was a proper fix for a poor neck angle. I am not angry over the 000-60 any longer, by the way. That situation proved to be the impetus for me to educate myself about guitar construction and in so doing I have developed a true love of building and repairing guitars. I have met many wonderfully talented and sharing individuals as a direct result of the situation with my 000-60. I don't need to rehash that issue with that particular guitar with you or anyone else.
I have learned a lot since that thread you linked to here. I can build my own guitars now and each project is a little better than the last. How much have you learned since you were smarting off to me about my guitar in that thread Walkerman? It would seem at the time you were lecturing me in that thread, you didn't know a thing about what you were talking about. You didn't even know what a well setup guitar was and didn't know diddly about proper playability. If your recent thread inquiring about what was involved in a basic set-up is any indication of how much you have educated yourself in the interim, I'd say you still don't know enough to comment about problems any one else may have with a guitar.
Since I returned to the Forum about a year ago, I have generally refrained from respoding to you. I'll admit a couple of times I let ya have the sarcasm right back, but fortunately I deleted most of them before you responded and we ended up with a silly internet shouting match. Here I'll admit this to you, I handled my warrenty issue with Larrivee about as well as they handled the repair, which is to say very poorly. I lost my temper at the situation and paid for it with the net result I recieved in Larrivee correcting the problem. However, because I behaved badly doesn't excuse Larrivee from properly fixing my instrument any more than I am excused from my lousy behavior in response to their poor customer service. Like I said, I have learned a few things since then, have you?
Quote from: hadden on July 14, 2011, 09:57:46 AM
Wow, very weird. :? Please lock this creepy resurrection.
Agreed....BTW, I just took your advice....... :beer
Quote from: GA-ME on July 14, 2011, 04:14:37 PM
Uh, Larrivee never fixed that guitar so, no, they were not right. They simply shaved a bit of bridge and sent it back to me with the with basically the same playability it had when it went in. I'm not even going to try and discuss what was wrong with my 000-60 with you. You never held the guitar in your hands and even if you did, you don't know enough to have evaluated the instrument and what it needed. A couple of weeks ago you were asking the Forum what was involved with a basic set-up, yet a few years ago you were lecturing me about what was a proper fix for a poor neck angle. I am not angry over the 000-60 any longer, by the way. That situation proved to be the impetus for me to educate myself about guitar construction and in so doing I have developed a true love of building and repairing guitars. I have met many wonderfully talented and sharing individuals as a direct result of the situation with my 000-60. I don't need to rehash that issue with that particular guitar with you or anyone else.
I have learned a lot since that thread you linked to here. I can build my own guitars now and each project is a little better than the last. How much have you learned since you were smarting off to me about my guitar in that thread Walkerman? It would seem at the time you were lecturing me in that thread, you didn't know a thing about what you were talking about. You didn't even know what a well setup guitar was and didn't know diddly about proper playability. If your recent thread inquiring about what was involved in a basic set-up is any indication of how much you have educated yourself in the interim, I'd say you still don't know enough to comment about problems any one else may have with a guitar.
Since I returned to the Forum about a year ago, I have generally refrained from respoding to you. I'll admit a couple of times I let ya have the sarcasm right back, but fortunately I deleted most of them before you responded and we ended up with a silly internet shouting match. Here I'll admit this to you, I handled my warrenty issue with Larrivee about as well as they handled the repair, which is to say very poorly. I lost my temper at the situation and paid for it with the net result I recieved in Larrivee correcting the problem. However, because I behaved badly doesn't excuse Larrivee from properly fixing my instrument any more than I am excused from my lousy behavior in response to their poor customer service. Like I said, I have learned a few things since then, have you?
Hey GA-ME,
I concur with your observations. I had a similar issue with my 000-50 and ran the "fanboy" gauntlet
with the same individuals. The lack of expertise was quite obvious and also quite easy to disregard. Irritating for awhile but I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion. Glad to hear your 000-60 is humming along.
gtrplayer
thanks for the warm welcome adios
Quote from: MCOOKOC on July 14, 2011, 09:48:20 PM
thanks for the warm welcome adios
Don't let the door hit you on the way out! :laughin:
Seriously, you should not have gotten into the middle of this hornets' nest. A new thread would have had a proper welcome for you.
Don't worry about a finish glitch. Just play the guitar and love the sound.
Surprised to hear some of these QC issues. I had two 03s from 07-08, an I have a 94 D-50 and a parlor probably from between '98 and 01 or 02. No problems with any of them; they exuded quality. The 94 needed a little fretwork when i got it, and I changed the setup. But that's to be expected after that long. Cost maybe a hundred bucks and change. I had the D-03's nut changed to try and widen the string spacing, but it was a fantastic guitar and sounded better than far more expensive instruments. The L-03RE was perfect right out of the box.
I'm sympathetic to anyone who's had these problems, but my experience, limited though it is, and that of a few nearby friends with Larrivees tells me that they are very consistent in quality.