Helen decided it was weigh day for the doggies. She is putting a couple on diets and wants to keep a weekly record. She is starting a breeding program for long coated Chihuahuas. Presently we have six. One is in Canada, having just birthed a puppy. The five here weighed in at a whopping total of 26 pounds and if we add the five pounder in Canada, that's 31 pounds of little dogs. My English Setter, who is small for her breed, weighed 48 pounds. Willy, our new breeding male, who is only four months old, weighed 2.1 pounds. 
Arrow, the female in Canada, from whom we were expecting four or five pups gave birth to one gigantic, by chi standards, puppy three weeks ago. Normally, they weigh around two to three ounces at birth but this thing was nearly six ounces. Poor girl took 12 hours to deliver her.
Anyway, hard to believe that all dogs descend from wolves.   :?            

The new pup. Three weeks old.

 :cop:   HAY!!!!!!!!!Thats not a WOLF..........thats a little puppy.....cute,yes but no Wolf....

Quote from: unclrob on January 25, 2017, 10:13:37 PM
:cop:   HAY!!!!!!!!!Thats not a WOLF..........thats a little puppy.....cute,yes but no Wolf....

I haven't met her yet so it's too early to say. She could be ferocious.

That's a pocket pup.  :bgrin:

Quote from: broKen on January 26, 2017, 08:22:39 AM
That's a pocket pup.  :bgrin:

Yeah but she's actually huuuge for a chi pup. You should see a picture beside her mom. She's already half the size of our five month old male.

If tiny dogs is the goal, you won't use him for breeding,,,I guess.

Quote from: broKen on January 26, 2017, 09:10:53 AM
If tiny dogs is the goal, you won't use him for breeding,,,I guess.

Well, Chihuahuas are the smallest breed. However, Helen is adamant that there is no such thing as "tea cup" breeds and anyone telling you this or trying to breed "tea cups" is abusing the animals. She is worried that Willy will not be big enough to show or breed. She loves him but will sell him if he doesn't get over four pounds. We have enough pets. The rest will have to earn their keep. I don't think we'll need to worry about the little girl being too small. She might be too big. Arrow, her breeding female is about perfect except the little ***** only had one pup.  

By the way Tom, selective breeding has been practiced from the beginning, and especially in the human race. But you knew that... :rolleye:

Quote from: broKen on January 26, 2017, 04:44:15 PM
By the way Tom, selective breeding has been practiced from the beginning, and especially in the human race. But you knew that... :rolleye:

Sure but breeding for extra smallness within a already small breed leads to unhealthy animals. The small mothers are particularly, at risk. At least as I understand it. Reputable breeders, various kennel associations and vets have spoken. There are limits. No?  

Arrow's pup is a real cutie regardless of her size...  We have a teacup short hair chi, very lovable, and some Maltese that aren't very small for their breed.  All of the boys are over 10-12 pounds and they came from a 5 pound mama.  We only bred her twice.  Still have too many dogs (9 I think), but they are like children you can't live without them...

Quote from: georbro3 on January 26, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
Arrow's pup is a real cutie regardless of her size...  We have a teacup short hair chi, very lovable, and some Maltese that aren't very small for their breed.  All of the boys are over 10-12 pounds and they came from a 5 pound mama.  We only bred her twice.  Still have too many dogs (9 I think), but they are like children you can't live without them...

You have us by one ... so far. Yes they are like our children. Except the English Setter, she is a juvenile delinquent and the only one Helen calls "Your dog."  :laughin:

Quote from: ducktrapper on January 26, 2017, 05:03:13 PM
Sure but breeding for extra smallness within a already small breed leads to unhealthy animals. The small mothers are particularly, at risk. At least as I understand it. Reputable breeders, various kennel associations and vets have spoken. There are limits. No?  

I've seen a few documentaries about breeding dogs to "extreme" standards just to conform to some confirmation expectation to win at shows whether or not it is detrimental to the health and comfort of the dog.  I don't know how biased or exaggerated some of these reports are, but surely such extremes aren't necessary.  If the "dog sport" community is finally recognizing this, then that is very a good thing.  ( I have always looked at the dog show circuit being called a "sport" with a distain).  Just change the damn standard if it can't be met without introducing and reproducing traits that are painful and/or unhealthy to the animals that depend so much on us to look after them.  Who is the guru on how these dogs should look in the first place?

Ironically, my wife and I love watching the Westminster Dog Show every year and trying to predict the winners.

Lucy and I believe strongly in promoting and owning "purebred" dogs because their characteristics in terms of looks and behavior are established and fairly predictable.  We could care less if they are show quality specimens, however.

Quote from: L07 Shooting Star on January 27, 2017, 03:56:22 AM
I've seen a few documentaries about breeding dogs to "extreme" standards just to conform to some confirmation expectation to win at shows whether or not it is detrimental to the health and comfort of the dog.  I don't know how biased or exaggerated some of these reports are, but surely such extremes aren't necessary.  If the "dog sport" community is finally recognizing this, then that is very a good thing.  ( I have always looked at the dog show circuit being called a "sport" with a distain).  Just change the damn standard if it can't be met without introducing and reproducing traits that are painful and/or unhealthy to the animals that depend so much on us to look after them.  Who is the guru on how these dogs should look in the first place?

Ironically, my wife and I love watching the Westminster Dog Show every year and trying to predict the winners.

Lucy and I believe strongly in promoting and owning "purebred" dogs because their characteristics in terms of looks and behavior are established and fairly predictable.  We could care less if they are show quality specimens, however.

Helen and her friend in Canada who has bred our dogs are pretty knowledgeable. They don't breed for size per se but they have both "show" dogs kept for show and breeding and for sale at high prices and "pets" for sale that don't quite meet the standard. All females will produce a runt now and then. Just as they sometimes produce oversized pups. They would never breed these dogs and they are sold only as pets and are never advertised as "toys". The little ones often have health and other problems. Pets are sold fixed and with shots so the breed is not affected. Pet quality ones are the lucky ones in my opinion.

Quote from: ducktrapper on January 26, 2017, 05:28:22 PM
You have us by one ... so far. Yes they are like our children. Except the English Setter, she is a juvenile delinquent and the only one Helen calls "Your dog."  :laughin:

Sounds like my 12 year old Australian Shepard female... she goes on road trips with strangers, likes to lay in the bathtub, swims in the lake and tracks water all over the house, gets on any piece of furniture she chooses and stinks it up, you name it she does it...

Quote from: georbro3 on January 27, 2017, 10:42:30 AM
Sounds like my 12 year old Australian Shepard female... she goes on road trips with strangers, likes to lay in the bathtub, swims in the lake and tracks water all over the house, gets on any piece of furniture she chooses and stinks it up, you name it she does it...

Sounds familiar. Lola, apparently, thinks she's one of the chihuahuas. Anything they can do, she can do. What's cute in a five pound dog, however, is not so cute in a fifty pound dog.   

Quote from: ducktrapper on January 27, 2017, 10:51:54 AM
Sounds familiar. Lola, apparently, thinks she's one of the chihuahuas. Anything they can do, she can do. What's cute in a five pound dog, however, is not so cute in a fifty pound dog.   

Mine weighs around 40 pounds and is jealous of all the little dogs.  She is also terrified of thunderstorms.  My wife lets her in the bed with the rest of the smallbreeds when that happens...

Quote from: georbro3 on January 27, 2017, 03:12:02 PM
Mine weighs around 40 pounds and is jealous of all the little dogs.  She is also terrified of thunderstorms.  My wife lets her in the bed with the rest of the smallbreeds when that happens...

Lola is both jealous and very protective of the little dogs. If any have a chew or a toy, she wants it despite having one of her own. On the other hand, if any of them yipe in pain or fright she comes running. We were doing nails the other day and Min (Minette) yipped. Well, Lola was beside herself trying to protect her. Min weighs four pounds and is on a diet because she's a little porker. Lola spent her first few nights here, as a six week old puppy, in a kennel with her and Lola thinks Min's her mom.