Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Other Guitar Makers => Topic started by: superdave on August 03, 2016, 11:33:38 PM



Title: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 03, 2016, 11:33:38 PM
I have one of their new hand oil rubbed finish OMM 's on its way ! I've owned lots of Larrivee's but for the price I thought I should see what their all about.
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 03, 2016, 11:54:15 PM
I predict you will love it...


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Mikeymac on August 04, 2016, 12:28:14 AM
Look forward to your full review... with pics!



Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 04, 2016, 02:50:29 PM
Morgan's are similar in a lot of ways to Larrivees but get a lot more detailed attention when built !


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 04, 2016, 06:26:12 PM
Look forward to your full review... with pics!



Yep.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 04, 2016, 06:28:33 PM
Morgan's are similar in a lot of ways to Larrivees but get a lot more detailed attention when built !

I believe that's an over generalization. A Morgan may get more attention than an 03 but probably not more than a 10. You get what you pay for after all. 


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on August 04, 2016, 08:15:39 PM
I believe that's an over generalization. A Morgan may get more attention than an 03 but probably not more than a 10. You get what you pay for after all. 
That too has been my findings on model comparisons


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: webberink on August 05, 2016, 01:30:42 AM
Super Dave,
As a Morgan and Larrivee owner, I think you will notice some distinct differences between them.  I know I did and I love the differences.  David Iannone has been developing his own distinct instrument since leaving Larrivee in 1985, with many interesting subtitles, which definitely contribute to his own play and sound. I would not part with any of my Larrivees nor my Morgan, but the Morgan is certainly way more than a Larrivee with "more care to detail when built."
Looking forward to your review.
Sincerely,
not so super, Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 05, 2016, 12:20:08 PM
Super Dave,
As a Morgan and Larrivee owner, I think you will notice some distinct differences between them.  I know I did and I love the differences.  David Iannone has been developing his own distinct instrument since leaving Larrivee in 1985, with many interesting subtitles, which definitely contribute to his own play and sound. I would not part with any of my Larrivees nor my Morgan, but the Morgan is certainly way more than a Larrivee with "more care to detail when built."
Looking forward to your review.
Sincerely,
not so super, Dave

At that, we need to know which Larrivee models you speak of. Can you say that about all Larrivees or just the ones in your possession? And if so, which details get more attention? My fanciest Larrivee is my OOO-50 TSB. I can't really see any details that received too little attention. I've played several Morgans, owned by friends of mine, and they were very nice indeed but my experience doesn't match yours. Although I was very impressed, I wouldn't trade any of them for the OOO.  


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 05, 2016, 01:48:09 PM
C'mon guys, ease up a little.  Dave is making commentary about the difference between a pseudo-mass-produced Larrivee vs. one-on-one built guitars from small luthiers like Morgan, Northwood and other former Larrivee apprentices.  If I look close enough, I can find flaws with every single guitar I own, including all of my custom models, and that is a lot of them...  I do believe the attention to detail is better on the higher end models, no matter who builds it...  Larrivee has recently faced some tough challenges in the marketplace and their attention to detail has degraded, according to some who have been disappointed with their orders (some have even cancelled their orders because of it.  This is not heresay, it is a fact I hear repeated from dealers).  I do not believe this is uniquely a Larrivee issue, but rather more attributable to the pool of personnel available to hire from.  There seems to be a trend of people that do not care whether they perform well enough to sign their name to their work (very unlike what most of us were taught to do).  I see this issue in just about all of the industries I do business with.  Just my two cents worth on this topic...


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 05, 2016, 03:20:29 PM
I just want to apologize for making a generalized statement without yet having owned both. I love my Larrivee's !
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Mikeymac on August 05, 2016, 04:33:33 PM

Larrivee has recently faced some tough challenges in the marketplace and their attention to detail has degraded, according to some who have been disappointed with their orders (some have even cancelled their orders because of it.  This is not heresay, it is a fact I hear repeated from dealers).  I do not believe this is uniquely a Larrivee issue, but rather more attributable to the pool of personnel available to hire from.


I've ordered a number of Larrivee's with no problem, but my most recent custom order was, unfortunately, not correct. When the dealer sent it back, the person at Larrivee receiving gave the reason for return as "a small ding in the top." While there was a very small (acceptable to me) ding in the top, the reason for returning the guitar was that it was supposed to have a hog top, and it was spruce. Why would the person try to cover up the mistake? That's more troubling to me (and the dealer) than the actual error.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Larrivee and every company makes mistakes, but this was not cool.

(Sorry - now we're off topic, but someone opened this can of worms...)


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: webberink on August 05, 2016, 06:09:16 PM
My three Larrivee guitars are all extremely well built guitars.  My point about my Morgan guitar was, not that it was better built but that it was different from the Larrivee.  Many people who don't know Morgan guitars say they are Larrivee knock offs as though David Iannone has not done any of his own work in terms of design and build since leaving Larrivee in 1985.  That is just not true of him or any of the great bunch of luthiers who learned their craft at Larrivee and went on their own to develop their own wonderful instruments.  Besides Iannone, there is Manzer, Wren, McQuarrie, and the list goes on.   Again Super Dave, I look forward to your review of your new Morgan.
Sincerely,
Not so super Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 05, 2016, 10:32:11 PM
I've always seen Morgans as high end Larrivees and that has been my experience. They used to be (mostly|) built in the same shop after all. 


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 05, 2016, 10:36:47 PM
C'mon guys, ease up a little.  Dave is making commentary about the difference between a pseudo-mass-produced Larrivee vs. one-on-one built guitars from small luthiers like Morgan, Northwood and other former Larrivee apprentices.  If I look close enough, I can find flaws with every single guitar I own, including all of my custom models, and that is a lot of them...  I do believe the attention to detail is better on the higher end models, no matter who builds it...  Larrivee has recently faced some tough challenges in the marketplace and their attention to detail has degraded, according to some who have been disappointed with their orders (some have even cancelled their orders because of it.  This is not heresay, it is a fact I hear repeated from dealers).  I do not believe this is uniquely a Larrivee issue, but rather more attributable to the pool of personnel available to hire from.  There seems to be a trend of people that do not care whether they perform well enough to sign their name to their work (very unlike what most of us were taught to do).  I see this issue in just about all of the industries I do business with.  Just my two cents worth on this topic...

The more guitars you build, even a small number mistakes, will mean more guitars with possible problems. That's obvious but that doesn't mean that Larrivee is not paying attention to detail. Let's say Morgan and Larrivee have a frequency of error that is .01%.  If Morgan builds a hundred guitars then one may have a slight defect.  But Larrivee when they build a thousand will have ten.   


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 05, 2016, 11:46:37 PM
I've always seen Morgans as high end Larrivees and that has been my experience. They used to be (mostly|) built in the same shop after all. 

I feel the same way about Northwood guitars.  It may be my imagination, but I think my Canadian Larrivee builds are a tick above my Oxnard builds, they just appear to have been paid more attention to detail...  no matter, I will still buy Larrivee when the opportunity to get a good one arises, and I patiently await the announcement of the 50th anniversary model(s)!!!


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Tuba Mike on August 07, 2016, 02:12:48 PM
Hey SuperDave:

Looking forward to seeing your review and seeing pics.  I have been interested in those oiled-rubbed finished OM's for quite a while and talked with Jason (via emails) about them for a bit.  I would love the opportunity to try yours if that would be okay with you.  I live in Ypsilanti which I think is not too far from you.  I could bring my OM-50 and we could compare.  Hope all is well.

Mike


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 07, 2016, 04:09:58 PM
Mike that may just be possible ? The Wife and I just moved into an apartment while our home  in Grand Haven is being built. So I have lots of disposable time on my hands ! LOL
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Zohn on August 16, 2016, 08:03:32 AM
 :thumbsup Morgans are consistently great guitars, I love my OMR - congrats with your incoming guitar superdave.
Please share your experience with it!


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 17, 2016, 10:30:39 AM
This is my first experience with an hand rubbed oil finish but I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between this and a sprayed on satin finish. It reminds me of how the old violin makers applied their finish.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 17, 2016, 02:34:08 PM
Just Made a great deal on a Morgan Concert.  I lucked into a gorgeous Western Red Cedar Sunburst top over dark stained Flamed Maple back and sides.  Solid ebony purfling, brass ringed turquoise fretboard inlay.  I am excited about it!


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 17, 2016, 06:13:19 PM
Mine will be here tomorrow ! 😃


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 17, 2016, 09:51:32 PM
Mine will be here tomorrow ! 😃

Pix please, right after you get through loving on it...


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: webberink on August 17, 2016, 11:20:31 PM
Congrats to you too George.  Give us some pics and a review when you get your Morgan too.  Maple and cedar, one great combination of tone woods and Morgan has some incredible old Canadian Red Cedar and Maple that David has been squirreling away for nigh on 30 years too.
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 18, 2016, 10:46:12 AM
In a perfect world I think I would have liked Cedar over Rosewood ? But I got a great deal on this Spruce/Mahogany OM. I played a Lakewood Cedar over Rosewood at Elderly the other day and it was by far the best sounding guitar in the store that I played !


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 18, 2016, 01:43:35 PM
Cedar sounds very much different than Spruce.  I like them both, but I have fewer cedar and you have to find the right one that suits your taste.  That said many Spruce varieties sound distinctively different as well. The stiffness of the spine has impact on the tone. I like them all, but Alpine Spruce has my heart...

Maybe you will get a cedar top on the next one...


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 18, 2016, 08:08:41 PM
About ten years ago, Colosimo's Music in Thunder Bay (since gone out of business) had their annual half price sale. Three friends of mine bought three Morgans that were hanging on the wall. Nice guitars and they all got great deals (even if the pre-half off price was pretty high). Rodney Brown, a Canadian icon, still plays and loves his maple cutaway and Dave Jonasson still has his mahogany model although he almost sold it to me once until he thought better of it. Missed it by [that] much. The rosewood model has since been sold in favor of a Gibson Songwriter. Bad trade in my opinion.  

http://www.rodneybrown.ca/    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwMveZzENSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RJPBxcxSxg


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 18, 2016, 11:28:28 PM
My Morgan arrived today ! And for being one who has owned a lot of nice guitars, I have to say this is a nice guitar ! It reminds me a lot of my Santa Cruz weight wise, but my biggest concern was wether I would like the oil rubbed finish ? Well I'm here to tell you it feels very organic or maybe a better choice of words user friendly. I know a lot of people desire a gloss finish which brings out the beauty of the wood but from a players perspective this is a great finish to not have to fuss over ! And the sound ? Typical Morgan ! Amazing mids. !


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 19, 2016, 01:19:08 AM
My Morgan arrived today ! And for being one who has owned a lot of nice guitars, I have to say this is a nice guitar ! It reminds me a lot of my Santa Cruz weight wise, but my biggest concern was wether I would like the oil rubbed finish ? Well I'm here to tell you it feels very organic or maybe a better choice of words user friendly. I know a lot of people desire a gloss finish which brings out the beauty of the wood but from a players perspective this is a great finish to not have to fuss over ! And the sound ? Typical Morgan ! Amazing mids. !

Great news with the expected outcome!  Something about unfinished wood that just allows it to resonate...   :gotpics:


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 19, 2016, 02:03:53 AM
The guitar has an understated elegance. Abalone micro dot pos. Markers with ebony bridge pins with Abalone dots, rosewood binding, lacewood headstock inlay and clear pickguard. The guitar is extremely light and has terrific mid range. I believe David has hit one out of the park with this one !
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 19, 2016, 01:46:24 PM
Dave I think you hit the nail on the head with the term "understated elegance".  These guitars are just about all wood everything, including the rosette.  Oil rubbed finish keeps the wood moist but by no means unattractive. (I love the feel of the wood on satin guitars)  When Takemine built their 50th Anniversary pro model they did the same thing and finished the whole guitar in satin, with no pickguard.  Even the fretboard had wooden inlays.  The thought was to not encumber the wood with anything that would reduce its ability to resonate.  Mine is cedar over Sapele and your descriptor fits it perfectly...  I am drooling over an oil rubbed DR...


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ST on August 19, 2016, 03:38:21 PM
Hi Dave,

Congratulations on getting your new Morgan.

If yours is anything like mine I'm sure that you'll be enjoying it decades from now.

Best wishes.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 20, 2016, 12:33:58 AM
I can't say enough about Jason at Notable Guitars who got me into this guitar ! He is the only US authorized dealer for Morgan's oil rubbed finish guitars, and they are as good as Jason says they are !
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 26, 2016, 01:06:01 AM
I'm really bonding with the hand rubbed oil finish !
Dave


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 26, 2016, 12:22:27 PM
I'm really bonding with the hand rubbed oil finish !
Dave

Are you sticking to it?   :wink:


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: homme de fer on August 26, 2016, 01:27:46 PM
I'd love to see pictures of it.

My brother almost picked up a Morgan last year. He answered an ad on kijiji and picked up on OM model in a really seedy part of Ottawa. When he inspected it, he saw there were cracks forming from the soundhole to the fretboard, probably from not being cared for. Given where he went to pick it up, my brother figured it was probably stolen and left in a room somewhere for a few year. The good news is, he ended up getting a Larrivee Swamp Ash D-03.

Anyhow, I'm a fan of satin finish guitars so I'm curious about an oil rubbed model.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: superdave on August 26, 2016, 02:37:44 PM
I think the cool thing about the oil rubbed finish vs a sprayed on satin finish is that the finish is in the wood instead on top ? I can't believe that it doesn't make for a livelier instrument ?


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Zohn on August 30, 2016, 05:08:36 AM
Congrats on your new Morgan Dave - wishing you lots of you and pleasant memories with it!
 :gotpics:


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Zohn on August 30, 2016, 05:21:10 AM
Rodney Brown, a Canadian icon, still plays and loves his maple cutaway and Dave Jonasson still has his mahogany model although he almost sold it to me once until he thought better of it. Missed it by [that] much. The rosewood model has since been sold in favor of a Gibson Songwriter. Bad trade in my opinion.  

http://www.rodneybrown.ca/    


with reference to Rodney Brown Duck, those Florentine-cutaway-Concert models are great - I played a Sitka/hog model once which was/is one of the best ever....
Those and the C-series Larrivees are the best looking cutaway guitars imo.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on August 30, 2016, 05:48:42 AM
I think the cool thing about the oil rubbed finish vs a sprayed on satin finish is that the finish is in the wood instead on top ? I can't believe that it doesn't make for a livelier instrument ?

The wood can't distinguish how the finish was applied.  Sprayed, brushed, or rubbed with a cloth, any given finish interacts with the wood the same way, depending on what solvent it is based on.  The greatest determining factor is what solvent the finish is dissolved in.  It is a misconception that some finishes "penetrate" the wood more than others.  Finishes in general hardly "penetrate" the wood at all.  And even if they did, what is the great benefit of this penetration?


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on August 30, 2016, 12:38:58 PM
with reference to Rodney Brown Duck, those Florentine-cutaway-Concert models are great - I played a Sitka/hog model once which was/is one of the best ever....
Those and the C-series Larrivees are the best looking cutaway guitars imo.

I agree. Bruce Cockburn and Jean Larrivee really had something there. 


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Walkerman on August 31, 2016, 03:17:24 AM
Morgan's are similar in a lot of ways to Larrivees but get a lot more detailed attention when built !

Given the fact that at one time or another, every Larrivee is worked on by JCL, I am not sure I can agree with your assumption.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 31, 2016, 02:01:00 PM
Given the fact that at one time or another, every Larrivee is worked on by JCL, I am not sure I can agree with your assumption.

Steve, we all recognize how hands on JCL and all his family is with every guitar build, but what I interpreted Dave to mean is that David touches each guitar a lot more during the builds, he just has a much smaller employee base so for me it is hard to compare the two...  I applaud JCL for teaching all his wonderful apprentices to carry on the great work he started...  I would love to own a guitar made by each and every one of them.  (No other brand exceeds my collection of Larrivee's in total count and likely never will)  No way I will ever be able to afford a Manzer though...   :winkin:


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Walkerman on August 31, 2016, 02:28:39 PM
Steve, we all recognize how hands on JCL and all his family is with every guitar build, but what I interpreted Dave to mean is that David touches each guitar a lot more during the builds, he just has a much smaller employee base so for me it is hard to compare the two...  I applaud JCL for teaching all his wonderful apprentices to carry on the great work he started...  I would love to own a guitar made by each and every one of them.  (No other brand exceeds my collection of Larrivee's in total count and likely never will)  No way I will ever be able to afford a Manzer though...   :winkin:

That is because you do not know how hands on" JCL is. Go into
larrivee on weekends, and you will see Jean doing everything all by himself.  but, we are talking semantics now.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on August 31, 2016, 03:40:00 PM
That is because you do not know how hands on" JCL is. Go into
larrivee on weekends, and you will see Jean doing everything all by himself.  but, bee are talking semantics now.

Thanks for that reminder Steve.  Dan Lawson used to make comments about JCL being in the plant working on Saturdays.  If I had your ease of access, I would probably be in there helping him and trying to learn all I could...  It must be really neat to have such a personal relationship with him.  His passion for the work in his videos are so apparent to the viewer.  He comes across as being very down to earth.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Walkerman on September 01, 2016, 01:35:05 PM
Thanks for that reminder Steve.  Dan Lawson used to make comments about JCL being in the plant working on Saturdays.  If I had your ease of access, I would probably be in there helping him and trying to learn all I could...  It must be really neat to have such a personal relationship with him.  His passion for the work in his videos are so apparent to the viewer.  He comes across as being very down to earth.

Every Larrivee player should have the experience of walking the
Larrivee shop floor with Jean.  You will see a man who loves guitar making. 


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on September 01, 2016, 02:01:17 PM
Every Larrivee player should have the experience of walking the
Larrivee shop floor with Jean.  You will see a man who loves guitar making. 


We can't overcome the hubris of those who automatically assume that if someone builds only ten or twenty or two hundred guitars (usually because they own one), that they are better guitars. We see that Matthew states that they are actually building better guitars than when JCL was doing that. Of course, Larrivee makes a wider range of guitars, as well, putting great guitars into the hands of those who might otherwise never afford one. I would love to take that walk with you.   :cheers   


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Walkerman on September 01, 2016, 05:55:52 PM
We can't overcome the hubris of those who automatically assume that if someone builds only ten or twenty or two hundred guitars (usually because they own one), that they are better guitars. We see that Matthew states that they are actually building better guitars than when JCL was doing that. Of course, Larrivee makes a wider range of guitars, as well, putting great guitars into the hands of those who might otherwise never afford one. I would love to take that walk with you.   :cheers   

you need to put that on your bucket list.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: ducktrapper on September 01, 2016, 07:26:03 PM
you need to put that on your bucket list.

Done.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: George on September 16, 2016, 10:38:42 PM
I can't say enough about Jason at Notable Guitars who got me into this guitar ! He is the only US authorized dealer for Morgan's oil rubbed finish guitars, and they are as good as Jason says they are !
Dave

David just announced on FB that Jason is now the Exclusive Morgan Guitar home in the US!  Jason always comes through no matter whose brand you are buying from him...  Great seller and a good friend to many here.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: bino on August 14, 2017, 04:10:26 AM
Congratulations SuperDave!  Will be curious to hear how that Morgan OMM with the hand-rubbed finish sounds.  I think that you will be very pleased.  I have a Morgan OMM, but not with the same finish.  It is without a doubt my go-to guitar.  I love my Larrivees and Guilds, but that Morgan is sweet.
I believe that Ducktrapper brings up an interesting and worthwhile point with his "high-end Larrivees" comment.  I even wonder if the Morgan Mahogany comes from Larrivee.  Of course, I know that David's shop still applies the finish.  I do not find the Morgan any fancier, but perhaps a bit more exquisite, FWIW.  I feel that the Morgan guitars may be one of the finer overall built North American guitar manufacturers.  But - what do I know.  The Larrivees and Morgans are really quite similar, I just feel that this particular Morgan may be a head above.  I have heard some really fine rosewood OM Larrivees, and I would not sell my L05 (in spite of a couple of character appearance flaws - I bought it used) very easily at all.  I love that thing and the sound that can come out ... wow.  I just have not heard hardly any OM-05's around here in Kansas.
So, the point of this meandering ... well, Super Dave I hope that you love that Morgan and I feel that you will.  I have my opinions about guitars, but they are still just my opinions.  There always will be exceptions to the rule, good or bad, but I do not believe that you need to worry.  And, no, I am not being critical of any of my Larrivee Forum Friends.  Do not take anything personal.  I was speaking about me.   :wink:   :guitar   :thumb


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Walkerman on August 14, 2017, 05:09:33 PM
I had a conversation with JCL about this topic.  I asked him if the guitars he made in the beginning ... totally by hand, one at a time...... were better than the ones he was making now.  He answered that the ones being made now are better.


Title: Re: New Morgan
Post by: Danny on August 14, 2017, 11:30:16 PM
Every Larrivee player should have the experience of walking the
Larrivee shop floor with Jean.  You will see a man who loves guitar making. 

:+1: Yup, he was one happy guitar builder the day he took me through. I wanted to hang around.
   But at least we got some good fish and chips. (and I left with a fine guitar;
I suppose after eight years plus, it's okay to say that.)