Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Recording, Pickups, Live Sound, etc. => Topic started by: headsup on January 13, 2015, 02:13:14 PM



Title: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: headsup on January 13, 2015, 02:13:14 PM
Hi folks,
I have posted my challenges regarding Acoustic pick-ups here before.
my main unit for all my stage guitars is LR Baggs Element.

It's constant, easy to instal, and provides wonderful results providing you don't lean on it.
 (All pups with have attack transient (quack) issues if you play to hard.

That being said, with every guitar purchase, and subsequent pick up instal, there is always some weird harmonic imbalance I have to deal with.

Usually the treble E or B (or both) falling off in volume, how ever with careful saddle dressing I always manage to make it right.

The current issue is around the old L09 in Maple I acquired.
Lovely player, but fickle with the Element.
in this case it's the D string, and bass E that is a tad lower in volume through the stage rig.
Back to careful slot inspection, and even saddle bottom, with a possible thin shim, under the Element proper.

always a challenge, good thing I always take a back up to the gigs....

Any body out there have similar issues?
after at least 20 instals, you would think I'd have this down by now...... :whistling:


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: Barefoot Rob on January 13, 2015, 02:38:01 PM
Having installed hundreds of them the problems with them lead me to tell my clients that there better off using a bridgeplate style pickup like thr Baggs IBeam  either passive or active.Though a pain to install {at least for me} the K+K button style pickups.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: SMan on January 13, 2015, 02:53:13 PM
I've had issues in the past with individual strings with low volume.  (My CS05 with I beam in particular.)  Using a granite surface plate with 3m Stikit paper reduced my saddle related issues.  While many do not like UST's, to my ears, I like them and am still using NOS Fishman Matrix Natural II pickups. 


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: dberch on January 14, 2015, 05:47:30 PM
I've had K&K Mini's in about 7 guitars now - all stellar.  Had first bad one.  In a Larrivee OM-05 of all things!  Just sound like crap. tinny, no bass, weak volume.  Even sent it to K&K and hgad them install a new one.  Same result.  Turns out the guitar had (according to my Luthier) a bad bridge plate with uneven glue and air pockets and possibly several loose braces. But replacing the bridge plate didn't help much!  Go figure.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: headsup on January 16, 2015, 09:52:21 PM
Tried a set of the K&K mini's yanked them out after one gig, not my sound at all, hard to control frequencies etc.

 regardless, I did manage to tidy up the saddle slot of the problem guitar (ir wasn't perfectly flat) and the guitar and pick-up sound wonderful. (Gigging with it tonight in fact)

 always a challenge.....


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: flatlander on February 07, 2015, 03:22:36 AM
Yea been thru all that. Sometimes its a funky piece of bone too. K&K for me as well for a while now. Kinda bassy but that actually works for me as I Often run bass lines while partner strums. Plus I have K&K preamp (and others) I can use to sparkle it up if I choose.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on February 18, 2015, 03:14:45 AM
Pickups are certainly not all equal. They're on a continuum from "sounds like a bunch of rubber bands over a kleenex boxto  "sounds like an electric guitar"

A lot of the players we now consider classic used to play into microphones, or if they had to be really loud, they just played electrics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES8ZYtC25lU


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: eded on February 18, 2015, 04:22:23 AM
Pickups are certainly not all equal. They're on a continuum from "sounds like a bunch of rubber bands over a kleenex boxto  "sounds like an electric guitar"

A lot of the players we now consider classic used to play into microphones, or if they had to be really loud, they just played electrics.


Hmmm...


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 01, 2015, 06:01:12 AM
Hmmm...

Is that the starting note for an a capella piece or . . . ?

Sound reinforcement?

Amplification?

Pickups are pickups. Obviously they're not equal or there wouldn't be more than one of them.

The significant choices:

         1)  present an acoustic instrument

          2) present an electric instrument

1) Requires a good room (which will limit the size of your audience)

2) is more appropriate for entertainment or accompaniment

If you think you need a "pickup", save, yourself a lot of headaches and go electric.

Once you need a pickup, you're into a forum of presentation where acoustic irrelevant - the subtleties of a given instrument are subservient to basic pitch and rhythm.

Granted,  the big beautiful wooden beastie with it's exquisite woods may bolster your confidence.

But ultimately acoustic instruments are created for acoustics, not electronics.

Think about it.

When you need to be loud, there's really nothing wrong with playing electric guitar . . .




Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on March 01, 2015, 06:57:50 AM
So if we accept your solution, Skyline, next time a top bluegrass band or artist needs to perform in an arena or stadium, they should just switch out their D-28s and Mandolins for electric guitars?  How about the fiddles?   Same for country artists?  I would hate to see David Gilmour perform "wish you were here"  or Jimmy Page do "stairway to heaven" live, on an electric guitar, just because they don't have enough volume to do it in a large venue.  Your argument makes no sense at all.

Acoustic guitars have been amplified (with pickups or transducers of some sort) for at least 50 years on countless live performances and recordings.  Even the poorest-sounding ones sound more like an acoustic guitar than an electric guitar.  The best-sounding systems, properly EQ'd, reproduce the acoustic guitar sound almost flawlessly.  On the other hand, I have never seen an electric guitar that can reproduce the sound of an acoustic very well at all.

I think the point of this topic is, of the many systems available for producing realistic sound from an acoustic guitar, some work better than others for different players and instruments for various reasons.  To most of us, it's already understood that there is a need to amplify acoustic guitars and other acoustic instruments.  If that wasn't true, there wouldn't be an issue.  Everyone would just use an electric guitar instead, which is just silly.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 05, 2015, 04:13:26 AM
  To most of us, it's already understood that there is a need to amplify acoustic guitars and other acoustic instruments.  If that wasn't true, there wouldn't be an issue.  Everyone would just use an electric guitar instead, which is just silly.

Sorry - I didn't phrase that very well..

Clearly, to play to thousands of people at one time, you will need volume beyond the ability of any known acoustic instrument. There's nothing wrong with pickups - but if you look around these forums, you'll see that they're a huge money-pit. A money pit that apparently leaves no-one satisfied (hence this thread)

I'm not saying "don't use a pickup", I'm saying "it's the music that counts" - ie if you know your tunes, and they're good tunes, what will count is the notes, not the timbre.

It is not "silly" to use an electric instrument. Like it or not, when you're audience hears you through a pickup you are using an electric instrument.  Yes Mr. Gilmour has done many "unplugged" performances with a plug:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8mr-gcgoI but even with Gilmour's relatively unlimited resources, the acoustics keep that "rubber band" sound:

But that's beside the point. If you really love the sound of your acoustic instrument, you'll be able to project that sound, as players have for many years, and still do, using a microphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL8eBrhVTJ4

If your goal is to play have fine acoustic instruments display their subtle nuances in hockey arenas, you're best off to invest in a flatbed that can carry a healthy P.A.,  carpets, baffles, and a good microphone or two. It'll be a lot more rewarding than trying to get an "acoustic" sound through a pickup - and way more predictable.

As for fiddles, on a fiddle, the difference between acoustic-with-pickup and electric is so subtle that silly might be the best adjective.

When it comes to Jimmy Page playing Stairway to Heaven live - did he ever perform it on an acoustic?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q7Vr3yQYWQ  (spoiler alert - there's a Mellotron on Flute setting playing the recorder parts!)


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: rockstar_not on March 05, 2015, 04:57:37 AM
The only install I've done is my K+K mini Pure Western on my L-03 after the Larrivee supplied fishman UST or electronics crapped out.  I've never been very happy with the sound of the K+K by itself, and I've made a impedance matching cable on the advice of someone here many moons ago.  It sort of fixed the thump issue, but not really.  I've pretty much quit using it and just bring along an EV PL80 vocal mic which does a much better job  as long as I don't move around too much.

I've tried pairing the K+K with an L.R. Baggs Para DI that they have at our church and still can't get a nice thump-free tone out of it.

I've heard many people sing the praises of the I-Beam; never tried one myself.  The best in-build pickup system I've ever heard is that three-way thing that used to come on Taylors - and no, I'm not a Taylor lover (well, except for the 8 string baritone; that thing is magic).


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on March 05, 2015, 05:30:14 AM
Sorry - I didn't phrase that very well..

Clearly, to play to thousands of people at one time, you will need volume beyond the ability of any known acoustic instrument. There's nothing wrong with pickups - but if you look around these forums, you'll see that they're a huge money-pit. A money pit that apparently leaves no-one satisfied (hence this thread)

I'm not saying "don't use a pickup", I'm saying "it's the music that counts" - ie if you know your tunes, and they're good tunes, what will count is the notes, not the timbre.

It is not "silly" to use an electric instrument. Like it or not, when you're audience hears you through a pickup you are using an electric instrument.  Yes Mr. Gilmour has done many "unplugged" performances with a plug:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8mr-gcgoI but even with Gilmour's relatively unlimited resources, the acoustics keep that "rubber band" sound:

But that's beside the point. If you really love the sound of your acoustic instrument, you'll be able to project that sound, as players have for many years, and still do, using a microphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL8eBrhVTJ4

If your goal is to play have fine acoustic instruments display their subtle nuances in hockey arenas, you're best off to invest in a flatbed that can carry a healthy P.A.,  carpets, baffles, and a good microphone or two. It'll be a lot more rewarding than trying to get an "acoustic" sound through a pickup - and way more predictable.

As for fiddles, on a fiddle, the difference between acoustic-with-pickup and electric is so subtle that silly might be the best adjective.

When it comes to Jimmy Page playing Stairway to Heaven live - did he ever perform it on an acoustic?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q7Vr3yQYWQ  (spoiler alert - there's a Mellotron on Flute setting playing the recorder parts!)

I think I misunderstood your meaning, Skyline.  Your points are well-taken.

I thought you were suggesting that any time you need more volume on a guitar, you should just play an electric guitar instead.  Sorry about that.  I acknowledge a microphone is the most accurate way to reproduce an acoustic's sound, but it is very limiting in other ways.  As a second choice, I still think that if you are going for an acoustic sound, an acoustic guitar with a good pickup/transducer, whatever you want to call it, is a better option than an "electric" guitar.

Silly me, I should have remembered Jimmy played that on his double neck electricguitar.   :blush:

 :cheers


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: carruth on March 05, 2015, 08:24:30 PM
The K & K works well for my finger picking style. THe K & K must be installed correctly to work properly.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: fongie on March 06, 2015, 09:16:16 PM
I think we all have our preferences, that's okay. I think it's always good to try different pickups, you eventually find what works for you and those that that don't.

I've had many, so many I can't even remember. I eventually settle on K&K. I run mine through a Orchid muting DI. Don't get me wrong, I think most are great but I prefer the natural sound more.

I also install all my K&K's myself, which makes it cheaper to purchase.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 07, 2015, 03:05:51 AM
I've never been very happy with the sound of the K+K by itself, and I've made a impedance matching cable on the advice of someone here many moons ago.  It sort of fixed the thump issue, but not really.  I've pretty much quit using it and just bring along an EV PL80 vocal mic which does a much better job  as long as I don't move around too much

Has anyone tried the DPA guitar mics?

Apparently they are very directional (like miniature shot-guns) and they mount to the instrument (so you don't have to make like a statue when you play)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdv3mE98j8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES8ZYtC25lU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwn1FxF6GGo


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 07, 2015, 04:30:48 AM
I have tried just about every mic for getting my sound out there.Yes I prefer mic's,I used mic's but sometime's you can't use mic's.I play in a duo that 90% of the time I'm playing right along side of a main road and I'll say this mic's suck for use at those club's.I use the Bagg's active Ibeam and the Anthym SL in my guitars.For me its as good as it gets to being acoustic sounding.Electric pu's are a different beast all together.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on March 07, 2015, 08:15:30 AM
The K & K works well for my finger picking style. THe K & K must be installed correctly to work properly.

I think we all have our preferences, that's okay. I think it's always good to try different pickups, you eventually find what works for you and those that that don't.

I've had many, so many I can't even remember. I eventually settle on K&K. I run mine through a Orchid muting DI. Don't get me wrong, I think most are great but I prefer the natural sound more.

I also install all my K&K's myself, which makes it cheaper to purchase.

I have the K&K's in both my L-07 and L-40 12 string.  I don't perform a lot, but seek to have realistic acoustic sound in my basement jam room.  I find that I can just plug both those guitars directly into my powered mixer and get a very accurate reproduction of the unplugged guitar with very little tweaking of the EQ on the mixer.  I also have played these guitars in live gigs thru my Baggs para acoustic pre-amp (properly gained and EQ'd) into several regular guitar amps with great success.

More than 30 years ago, Seymour Duncan produced a humbucking acoustic pickup, called the acoustic tube, that you can snap into your soundhole and that will instantly amplify your acoustic guitar.  I bought one of these when they first came out, and have bought a couple more since then.  These are great sounding and worth checking out before they are no longer available.  Stewmac has them for about $70.00.  To me, they reproduce the acoustic sound just as well as all these new-fangled systems offered today.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: rockstar_not on March 07, 2015, 02:30:41 PM
Has anyone tried the DPA guitar mics?

Apparently they are very directional (like miniature shot-guns) and they mount to the instrument (so you don't have to make like a statue when you play)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixdv3mE98j8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES8ZYtC25lU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwn1FxF6GGo

For the price of one of the DPA mics, I would buy another guitar!  The original company that spawned DPA, if I'm not mistaken, is Brüel & Kjær or it's G.R.A.S. - both of which are high-end measurement microphone manufacturers.  G.R.A.S. was spawned by Gunnar Rasmussen who was at B&K for years.  Great microphones with a rich history behind them.  But also quite expensive.  I really like their guitar body mounting mechanism.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 07, 2015, 05:44:05 PM
For the price of one of the DPA mics, I would buy another guitar!

At first blush they seem expensive, but you can use the same one on multiple instruments, and not just for performance (I don't know many people who pickups for recording)

So would the higher cost be spread out over multiple functions and instruments - if these work well ? :?



Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: headsup on March 12, 2015, 01:17:20 PM
Once I plug one of my very nice hand crafted acoustic guitars into a sound system, it's electric right?
The audience is now hearing an electric guitar, like it or not.

I play well over 350 shows a year, sometimes 2 or 3 a day, with different sound companies, different expectations, different stage monitors.
 What I ALWAYS keep the same is my personal stage rig.

That is; any number of older hand made Larrivve guitars, every one fitted with the exact same pick-up system.
 (LR Baggs "Element") for consistency.

The only "difference" for me, is the acoustic tonal response of each guitar on that system.
The differences to others are almost inaudible, to me, even though it's an amplified guitar, the differences are just enough to help decide which guitar is most appropriate for which gig.

As far as my OP on this matter, as any tech type person might know, the saddle slot MUST be perfectly clean and flat, the bottom of the bone saddle must also be perfectly flat and even for maximum contact with the braided wire pick-up.

Last, and I've mentioned this before in other posts, in order to avoid attack transience (quack), it's important NOT to lean (overplay,play too hard, strum hard) with acoustic pick ups. Play with sensitivity, care and intelligence, and use the monitor desk to bring your sound where you need it on stage.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: eded on March 12, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
Once I plug one of my very nice hand crafted acoustic guitars into a sound system, it's electric right?
The audience is now hearing an electric guitar, like it or not.
.

Being absolutely fair, that applies to a mic'd guitar also, right?

I never play in big places.  I almost exclusively play through the same amp (Ultrasound AG-50) which is well matched to the pickup I use (K&K).  When I play into any other amp or mixing board, I use the K&K preamp.  I get no booming, no extra bass, no quack (as long as there is someone competent on the controls).  The pickup and amp(s) make the sound louder and the "air" of the guitar fills in what the pickup doesn't do.  Would this work in a different situation, like a larger room or a rock combo?  No, probably not.  I'm not fighting off offers so I won't get too wigged over that.   :humour:

For recording I use a mic (or mics), though for the right affect I'd go with a pickup.   Several (well, ok many) years ago, I was only really playing electric and we wanted acoustic sound on one tune (there wasn't a decent acoustic amongst us) so we rigged up a mix of the bridge pickup of my Guild Starfire III (hollow body electric), a Barcus Berry Dot (remember them?) on the bridge, and a mic about 8" away from the front of the guitar.  It sounded great and anyone would be hard pressed to tell it wasn't an acoustic.

I fully agree with the original premise...  not all pickups are equal.  But then, not all situations are equal.  I don't believe there is a single solution to every amplification need.  It's great we have so many possibilities to choose from.

Ed


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: dberch on March 13, 2015, 02:04:12 PM
But that's beside the point. If you really love the sound of your acoustic instrument, you'll be able to project that sound, as players have for many years, and still do, using a microphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL8eBrhVTJ4

If your goal is to play have fine acoustic instruments display their subtle nuances in hockey arenas, you're best off to invest in a flatbed that can carry a healthy P.A.,  carpets, baffles, and a good microphone or two. It'll be a lot more rewarding than trying to get an "acoustic" sound through a pickup - and way more predictable.

Pardon the expression, but, Poo.  Try telling that to the dozens upon dozens of folk who have told me they love my plugged sound because it 'just sounds so acoustic.' I was running my K&K equipped Collings D1A through a Roland AC-100 once and a gentle man crossed the street to come in the coffee house where I was playing and told me, "I thought I heard a Martin." It was summer and he door was open. Well it's not a martin but I've a/b'd it with a D-18GE and the difference was negligible. I play finger style with a thumb pick and palm muting when needed and the K&K projects the truest tone of any pickup I've tried, and I've tried a bunch. iBeam came close, but feedback issues knocked it out.

Headsup, when you tried your K&K, did you back off the Mids? Makes a WORLD of difference and that's the only EQ I ever apply, other them mild tweaks to High and Low to suit the room.

Cheers,
David


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 16, 2015, 01:51:31 AM
Being absolutely fair, that applies to a mic'd guitar also, right?

For sure! The common denominator becomes the amplifier/speaker -  a whole other rabbit hole, replete with multiple eat-me's and drink-me's.

How do you establish a baseline?  Maybe you get a good recording system, setup and record your guitar simultaneously through the pickup and through a microphone?

Just record - don't monitor (except meters, to set levels)

Let's assume you're not playing in a shoebox or the local equivalent of the Taj Mahal - and you've spent at least half as much on the microphone as you have on the pickup - which do you think re-creates the sound of your instrument better?





Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 16, 2015, 02:13:49 AM
Pardon the expression, but, Poo.  Try telling that to the dozens upon dozens of folk who have told me they love my plugged sound because it 'just sounds so acoustic.' I was running my K&K equipped Collings D1A through a Roland AC-100 once and a gentle man crossed the street to come in the coffee house where I was playing and told me, "I thought I heard a Martin." It was summer and he door was open. Well it's not a martin but I've a/b'd it with a D-18GE and the difference was negligible. Cheers, David

Poo as in The Tao of Pooh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Pooh)?

What does it mean if you were playing a Collings and someone thought they were hearing a Martin?  :beer


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: eded on March 16, 2015, 03:26:04 AM
Poo as in The Tao of Pooh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Pooh)?

What does it mean if you were playing a Collings and someone thought they were hearing a Martin?  :beer

If Bill Collings was within earshot, I bet you'd hear, "mission accomplished", or something similar.

Ed


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on March 31, 2015, 01:35:39 AM
If Bill Collings was within earshot, I bet you'd hear, "mission accomplished", or something similar.
Ed

Hmm, I would have thought he might be a bit put out . . .  :guitar


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: dberch on April 03, 2015, 03:30:08 PM
Hmm, I would have thought he might be a bit put out . . .  :guitar

Well, it WAS through a pickup. ;)


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: eded on April 03, 2015, 04:41:14 PM
Hmm, I would have thought he might be a bit put out . . .  :guitar

From what I understand about Collings, the sound of the early Martins is the goal.  I doubt he'd be put out.

Ed


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: dberch on April 21, 2015, 03:39:22 PM
From what I understand about Collings, the sound of the early Martins is the goal.  I doubt he'd be put out.

Ed

Bingo!


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: George on April 21, 2015, 08:20:32 PM
This thread appears to be rather a hot topic?  Lots of passion from the forum members about it.  My two cents summary;  I have UST's (or UST/mic blend) systems installed on all of my acoustic guitars and love the way they sound through a recording system set flat but with appropriate effects dialed lightly in.  I have recorded with several AKG and Neumann mics and I just don't play cleanly enough, consistently enough, to get through all the extra noise I create for me not to notice it as bad on my recordings.  I suspect the DPA d:vote 4099G guitar mic would give me the same issues, even though my DPA vocal mic is my absolute favorite (its side rejection is excellent and its sound pressure level handling is phenomenal, but it is not designed for micing musical instruments).  I find the Baggs Anthem systems to be about half the output volume of a typical Fishman or DTAR UST.  If you can keep the gain signal to noise down the Anthems perform extremely well.  I have not tried the Ibeam, but know several who prefer it over all else, but they also say it really makes the top of the guitar "hot" to the touch which is not good news for a flat picker like me.  I have not tried the K&K either, would someone please suggest a model with an internal preamp?  Most of the string balance issues mentioned here are common problems with anybody's UST, at least in my humble experience.  You know, this is a subject that really boils down to a whole lot of personal preference, as well as appropriate for individual playing styles... but is certainly the type of technical discussion I like very much!  I have not been on here for very long, but I am addicted...   :humour:


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on April 22, 2015, 03:17:13 AM
I've read and re-read everyone's responses. They all make sense - so I have to ask:

   • When we're considering pickups, how are we comparing them?

   • Are we comparing pickup to pickup?    •  Or is the baseline the sound we hear when we play acoustically in our favourite comfort-room?    •  Or is the baseline sound something we can record and re-play at any later time?

   • Is the live sound we are comparing to the ambient sound in the room? Or are we comparing to the sound we hear through a monitor, or is it the sound recorded off of a console, or an open mic?


When georbro3 describes getting a preferred performance through "pickups" - I suspect the crux of the biscuit has been hit . . .


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on April 22, 2015, 06:20:21 AM
I've read and re-read everyone's responses. They all make sense - so I have to ask:

   • When we're considering pickups, how are we comparing them?

   • Are we comparing pickup to pickup?    •  Or is the baseline the sound we hear when we play acoustically in our favourite comfort-room?    •  Or is the baseline sound something we can record and re-play at any later time?

   • Is the live sound we are comparing to the ambient sound in the room? Or are we comparing to the sound we hear through a monitor, or is it the sound recorded off of a console, or an open mic?


When georbro3 describes getting a preferred performance through "pickups" - I suspect the crux of the biscuit has been hit . . .

To answer all 3 of your points, I would say "all of the above".  I think it boils down to which pickup/system/combination is "the best" for a given application.  The answer depends on one's definition of "best" and is very subjective in any case.


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: skyline on April 25, 2015, 03:25:29 AM
To answer all 3 of your points, I would say "all of the above".  I think it boils down to which pickup/system/combination is "the best" for a given application.  The answer depends on one's definition of "best" and is very subjective in any case.

Clearly it is subjective, but  "yes - all of the above"? Are you pulling my tuning pegs?


Title: Re: Not all pick-ups are equal?
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on April 25, 2015, 05:59:26 AM
Clearly it is subjective, but  "yes - all of the above"? Are you pulling my tuning pegs?

Not quite.  I'm turning your cranks. :rolleye:

I didn't articulate my answer very well.  I was trying to say that all of your examples of different comparisons might or could apply depending on the situation and the objective of the comparison.  So sometimes we want to compare pickups to pickups.  In another situation we want to compare the live sound to the ambient sound of the room, etc. etc.  I meant all of your examples could apply.  I think I was agreeing with you. :wacko: