Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Recording, Pickups, Live Sound, etc. => Topic started by: Barefoot Rob on March 12, 2013, 05:08:04 PM



Title: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 12, 2013, 05:08:04 PM
OK some gigs popped up and I've had a chance to use it live.First though I would like to post the what was said at my shoot out with a bunch of other pu's, and mic's.Each pu was judged on how natural it sounded in the guitar it was installed in due to the fact the the day would of been spent just reinstalling pu's.We used a PA for amplification since that's what everyone performs with.We were also outdoors on a covered porch ed.The PA was my Mackie 1642VLZ-pro run thru a Technical Pro powered cab with a horn and a 12" set about 6' up.The channels were all set flat and each guitar was run both straight into the board and thru a PARA Acoustic D.I..

Anthem SL in a Guild JF30;everyone had the same basic thought,sounded close to the guitar.Kinda electronic but just a little bit.Sounded best run thru a PARA then direct into the PA eq set was treb and mids flat and a tad bit of bass.

K+K Mini in Martin OM21;Run thru the Pa direct all felt it was way to hot and unbalance.Plugged into the PARA smooth everything out and the treb and mids were flat and bass was rolled off.The overall thoughts were that it sounded a tad electronic but again pretty close.

Active Ibeam in a Taylor Grand Concert;Again everyone was happy enough with the sound but it didn't sound good thru the PA,once we added the PARA things got crazy as everyone had a different idea for eq'ing and I won't get into all the different settings as everyone like something different which ended up ending with no one leaning towards a natural tone but tone's that they were happy with

GHS A137 internal single source mic Larrivee OM03PA;Overall the agreed downside was to airey sounding when played direct and run thru the PARA and a feedback buster was added which improved the tone when played direct and thru the pre.Still it had what was described as less airey.With the PARA set at treb about a third back from flat and the mids set two thirds back,bass at just a tad backed off also we turn the presence control all the off it became pretty usable and we all thought that only players would notice the slight airiness but most people would be to busy talking and having for notice.

Lyric in a Larrivee LS10;Here's the Rub everything that went on with the GHS A137 happened with it.I had started out with the Lyric mounted frontside of the bridgeplate which didn't sound good,moved it too the backside of the bridgeplate which was better but not much for the shootout I placed the Lyric between the soundhole and the bridge to the top of the guitar just north of the low "E".Much better responce that in my opinion was due to being placed in a less stiff area.Direct into the PA it really didn't sound very good overly mid rangy.When run thru the PARA we ended up using the same settings as were used on the GHS and had same overall results and opinions as it.

Overall it was agreed that the Lyric is a little too hot and may be better used with an eq of some sort for more overall control and when I get a chance I get a my hands on one I'll update this review.I hope this will help anyone out there who's thinking of getting a Lyric.Myself the rest of March is dead for playing gig's but I do have 5 soundtech gig's  :nanadance .So more after the month of April and a few gig's playing up against the Anthem SL which is in my Guild JF30 that my duo partner has taken control of.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 15, 2013, 02:49:40 AM
The feedback buster was used and was suggested by Bagg's.There really was no noticable difference with the responce of the Lyric.The GHS A137 needed the Feedback Buster as it picked up the breeze we had that night.The Lyric is also a more focused mic as the mic face's the top were the A137 is suspended inside the body and the sweet spot is more towards the soundhole.I have since begun to experiment a little by adding some foam between the mic and the top which has lighten the hollow sound a bit.

I think I should explain the hollow sound,I just can't figure out any othe way too discribe it or what is causing it.It sounds like a high gain noise or a floor noise.I was told that it was designed to just plug direct into a PA nut two of the more well now players that are using it use the Venue pedal.Most of my clients don't own high end PA's that offer the option of a gain/trim control and PA's that don't offer them just don't have enough preamp wattage.

Overall and 3 gigs later I'm still on the fence about it.This weekend I'll be be playing it thru an Acoustic acoustic guitar amp again which is the amp we tested it thru.One other thing I have yet to have any feedback isuue with the Lyric when the monitor is run hot and I'm close to it.The people I'll be playing with have a habit of playing really loud and I'll be sitting pretty close to it.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: bobw on March 15, 2013, 04:14:29 AM
 :+1:   Thanks Unclrob for taking the time to share this review... good info...  :thumb


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 15, 2013, 05:04:39 PM
We used the direct box out of the PARA.I will check out using it with just a direct box and let you know the results.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 16, 2013, 05:02:39 PM
OK that sound finally got to me after playing last night so I'm trying something different.I took the unit apart and covered all the opennings other then the mic that face's the top and so far so good at home.I'll let you know how it does at a gig.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 17, 2013, 04:10:44 AM
Well I sat in with a friend for a couple of sets and no more hollowness.The mic is still a little to hot but plugged into the board without a preamp and it sounded really good.If there are any owners who would like to have more details of what I did please contact me either thru email.pm or give me a call and I'll talk or type you thru it.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: dberch on March 17, 2013, 02:14:12 PM
Well I sat in with a friend for a couple of sets and no more hollowness.The mic is still a little to hot but plugged into the board without a preamp and it sounded really good.If there are any owners who would like to have more details of what I did please contact me either thru email.pm or give me a call and I'll talk or type you thru it.
there's your chance to make a millions, Rob!  Will you Mod my Lyric?  You can beta test me, and overcharge everyone else! :)


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on March 17, 2013, 03:24:54 PM
Dave PM sent. :beer


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 02, 2013, 02:18:43 AM
Well ext Wed. the first time I'll be playing the Lyric at our regular gig.Its been installed in my OM03PA like I said and we see how it preforms. :wave


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Tio Kimo on April 02, 2013, 02:42:46 PM
Following this thread with great interest. Thanks UnclRob for taking the time to post about the various mods to the install.

I've got this dread that needs a pickup, and I'm basically using this thread as the "decider" on what avenue to take.

 :cheers


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 02, 2013, 04:19:50 PM
Glad to help anyway I can. :cheers


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 04, 2013, 10:09:39 PM
Thanks Rob.  Can you comment on the bass response a bit more when you get a chance?  I'm particularly interested in how it compares with the Anthem SL since that's what I have.  With the SL I find that the balance is very good (once properly adjusted) but there is just a hint of the stereotypical undersaddle type sound in the lower registers.  My only reason for getting a Lyric would be to have a more open and natural sounding low end without compromising either the bass extension or the overall neutrality and quality of the mids and high end.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: headsup on April 05, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
Sounds to me like the PARA was/is the most important link in the chain.
More so than the pick ups.....


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 06, 2013, 03:53:37 PM
The Venue has a better swip in its eq's.Just can't afford one,YET.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 11, 2013, 03:59:02 AM
Well tonight was the night and..well......I played two tune's solo and it sounded not bad.When played with my partner in musical crime  it just didn't cut it for me.I plan on barrowing an eq peddle for the next gig in two weeks to see if I can clean it up.One problem I did have is the volumn control wasn't secure enough but I'll take the blame for that though it doesn't fit real well in the first place.Now I'm not downing the system but it does need work its too hot,has way too much mids and in my book a redesign of the mic casing it allow's way to much extra info in which for some it sounds resonatorish or overly airy.The rigging I did took care of a lot of those problems but I figure I'm going to have to do more.Others may feel differently and I'm fairly sure that I have pi**ed off someone with my review's and rigging but I have my clients too take care of.For most people the Anthem SL would be the way to go and for GGBB try backing off on the bass and the mids a little to take care of that stereotypical UTS sound,maybe take more of the UTS out at the control mounted on the control.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: dberch on April 11, 2013, 03:11:51 PM
Seems like a lot of trouble to get a pickup to sound "right."

Haven't bothered with mine lately. I'm playing my other K&K equipped guitars. ;)

Played show a couple weeks ago - fundraiser for a local acoustic concert series. Professional sound man said my K&K equipped Collings OM sounded amazing. Had an Boss EQ pedal in the chain but never bothered to turn it on.

David


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 11, 2013, 04:58:07 PM
Thanks Rob.  Excellent feedback.  Do you think that the non-standard placement could be the cause of the tonal problems?

As for my Anthem SL, I do back off the undersaddle level a bit as you recommend.  Overall it is really good and balanced, and in my C-09 it was a breeze to install and position the mic part.  It was no struggle at all to get a good sound out of it.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 11, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
No mic placement isn't an issue since its dsigned to pickup the top.I just found that placing it in another spot seemed to help.The bridgeplate is suggested but after talking to the people at Baggs it could be place other place's {that's a lot of use of the place :doh}.I think placing it off the bridgeplate allow for a bit better tone.I'm sure that the problems are IMO the fact that the mic is rather hot and that the preamp eq if there is preamp eq is way to mid rangy.I will at this time suggest that my clients go with the Anthem SL which IMO is a better system at this time.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 23, 2013, 03:54:57 PM
Not one to give up I once again moved the mic.This time I've placed it at at the high E side of the soundhole with much better results.What I think I need to get and I'm not sure if I'm using the right term,never been good at technical stuff or gagets but I think what is needed is something that will allow me to pad down the signal.Using the PARA I'm able to control the eq'ing {still considering an EQ pedal} but even with the gain turned all the way down and the guitars volumn half way up and the volumn on the PARA set at 9 o'clock the signal is still to hot and is picking every thing up.So if there is someone who can help me with someway to pad down the pu I'd would love it.Again I'm not willing to give up on this system it just needs to be more user friendly for us folks that don't have the ability to run our stuff thru digital boards with lots of processing or a Venue pre-amp.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 23, 2013, 06:00:53 PM
Rob - essentially the volume control is a pad/attenuator - can't you just turn that down more?  Still seems really odd that it's that hot.  I have to say though that I found my Anthem SL similar going into my Venue - I had to back of the gain quite a bit to avoid clipping with full on strumming.  But doing that made the background noise quite obvious.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 23, 2013, 06:18:43 PM
That's what I found that's why I'm thinking an off board pad that won't mess with the tone but still give you control over the volumn,if that make's any sence.I have not had these issue's with my AnthemSL in my Guild.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 23, 2013, 07:27:14 PM
That's what I found that's why I'm thinking an off board pad that won't mess with the tone but still give you control over the volumn,if that make's any sence.I have not had these issue's with my AnthemSL in my Guild.

Makes perfect sense.  But that's essentially the problem.  You can pad a signal either passively or actively.  Passively will usually affect tone a bit (very little if done right).  An active pad/buffer, while it will preserve tone if done right, is probably not much different than what is in the Para pre-amp, so it's going to be subject to the same clipping problems.  I think the main issue is the fact that we're dealing with 9V power which limits the headroom of the device.  Normally 9V would provide plenty of headroom, but mics can be really hot sometimes.  I don't know this for sure but I would guess that even if you are running the Para off the 48V phantom power, it probably regulates the power down to 9V.  But it could be 12V or 18V or something a little higher so maybe trying phantom power is worth a shot if you haven't yet.  An 18V device will double the headroom (assuming it actually runs internally at 18V).  If you've got a little mixer that runs off AC, I would try and see if that works before spending any money on something.  But even that might not help since the internal bias voltage to the ICs or transistors is what matters and that could easily be no different than a 9v device - it just depends on the design of the unit.

You could also try a good compressor - one that has an input level control - and keep the compression to a minimum.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 24, 2013, 01:37:05 AM
It experiment is either done on my old Mackie 1642 VLZ Pro or thru my test amp which is a Fender Champ 12.I have tried a compressor but not what I after.There's got to be a way to line level the system down so that any volumn is done at the board.I feel sure if I could cut the out put by 20-30% I could get a good usable signal.I no longer get that resonator effect since moving the mic but I get tone's more contact noise that only disappears when I cut the gain at the board and at the PARA but I end up with almost no signal when  do that,I just want lower the hotness of the system.Keep your brain working and I'll keep mine worker and maybe someone else will chime in. :wacko:


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 24, 2013, 11:19:17 AM
You could always try the passive route - just run it through a 10K volume pot.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 24, 2013, 01:56:50 PM
I'm not sure if any signal can come out without the 9v push.Even when I use it straight without the PARA in the mix its still to hot and I can't pull out enough mids with just the board.Still plan on getting an eq pedal to see if that helps.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 24, 2013, 03:06:02 PM
I'm not sure if any signal can come out without the 9v push.Even when I use it straight without the PARA in the mix its still to hot and I can't pull out enough mids with just the board.Still plan on getting an eq pedal to see if that helps.

I meant add the volume pot after the lyric pre-amp.  It's essentially a passive pad.  Passive has the advantage that it can't clip.  But I'm not sure that the built-in volume control isn't just set up the same way.  Are you just running the mic powered by 9V without the electronics straight into the para or board?


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 24, 2013, 04:23:40 PM
I meant add the volume pot after the lyric pre-amp.  It's essentially a passive pad.  Passive has the advantage that it can't clip.  But I'm not sure that the built-in volume control isn't just set up the same way.  Are you just running the mic powered by 9V without the electronics straight into the para or board?

I hadn't thought of opening the pre-amp jack up to see if theres is some sort of control there,Yep on the 9V only.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 24, 2013, 04:48:33 PM
Rob - after re-reading some of your earlier posts I think I may be on the wrong track.  Is clipping/distortion your problem (that's what I think of when I hear "too hot")?  Or is it just that the pickup sounds overly sensitive and midrangey?  I had been thinking it was clipping, but now I think not.  EQ pedal could help, but the Para should be able to do that.  You could also try backing off the presence control on the Lyric.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 24, 2013, 07:02:18 PM
Pickup is overly sensitive and midrangy.I have backed off on the presence control.Like I said there has to be way to dummy down the sensitivity.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 26, 2013, 07:39:09 PM
What about something whacky - like a piece of foam or felt in the cavity between the mic element and the soundboard?  Acoustic damping instead of electronic.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 26, 2013, 11:55:45 PM
What about something whacky - like a piece of foam or felt in the cavity between the mic element and the soundboard?  Acoustic damping instead of electronic.

Already did that the mic casing had lots of open space so I foamed that area and lost all that airy sound.The mic head face's the guitar top and I think I might just try covering it.I'll give it a try in the morning and post the results.Thanks for the idea. :thumb


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 27, 2013, 05:18:26 PM
Well I have installed the paddy double sided tape over the mic and put a denser piece of foam on it.Running thru the PARA I got a fairly usable signal  but I'm sure that pre-amping a pre-amped signal is causing some distortion but I need really think I need the eq'ing for a beter tone control as the neither the test amp nor the board give's enough control.So now I've got to find a nice parametric eq pedal that I can afford as I don't think a graphic will do the job.Any suggestion for an affordable parametric eq???


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on April 30, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
Well I have installed the paddy double sided tape over the mic and put a denser piece of foam on it.Running thru the PARA I got a fairly usable signal  but I'm sure that pre-amping a pre-amped signal is causing some distortion but I need really think I need the eq'ing for a beter tone control as the neither the test amp nor the board give's enough control.So now I've got to find a nice parametric eq pedal that I can afford as I don't think a graphic will do the job.Any suggestion for an affordable parametric eq???

Rob - have you tried talking to Baggs about this?  If one has to go to those lengths to get a usable signal out of it, then in my opinion it's either really poorly designed or there is something wrong with the one you have.  At what point in time do you just give up and say"this is a piece of junk?"  I applaud your tenacity - I would have thrown in the towel long ago.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 30, 2013, 04:01:27 PM
I am a dealer and when I first got it I told my rep about the issue.I'm sure well maybe not real sure that the guy's at Baggs have red this.When I talked to then I was told that a country player in a large band {don't remember his name} use's one thru a Venue with no issue's,the guitarist for Lyle Lovett's band use one again thru a Venue also with no problem.I was told about another guy who bought one while the owner of Baggs was there and had to install a feedback buster of some sort due to monitors being to hot and causing feedback.I sent the first one back because I thought there was a problem and had it replaced.I'm not sure its my place to tell a company how to build its product since they don't seem to have a problem.My job is to take care of my clients that want the system and don't have the money to buy a Venue or get to run there instrument thru a $60-70K digital mixer.Hell I don't know if anyone else is having issue with them that I am.This is the only forum I'm on.I have Little Brothers review which wasn't glowing and nobody but you and I have been posting here.There is a forum member here that doesn't seem to like his.As for why I'm doing this,mostly because for years I have been trying to find a system that sounds like my guitar when I'm sitting in my living room playing.Since it is so really really hard to get people to play thru mic's and since so many want that sound I feel I need to do this,I guess its who I am.I have found a direct box with a cut on it for hot output instruments and I plan on barrowing it from my friend to see if it helps.There are 10 of my clients who really want this to work,so I have no choice.




62343012


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 11, 2013, 02:19:31 AM
Well tried it thru an Ultrasound DI Plus which is a preamp/DI box which I was told might work.Well "Nope",it has a knob which you can adjust the input gain which I set as low as possible and it has line level out.It has other features that I thought would help with the mids being so hot also with no luck.The unit overall isn't a bad thing just not good for what I need.I'm hoping to get a DI from a friend that has a pad switch and is used to calm hot keyboard signals.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: rockstar_not on May 23, 2013, 07:08:46 PM
Well tried it thru an Ultrasound DI Plus which is a preamp/DI box which I was told might work.Well "Nope",it has a knob which you can adjust the input gain which I set as low as possible and it has line level out.It has other features that I thought would help with the mids being so hot also with no luck.The unit overall isn't a bad thing just not good for what I need.I'm hoping to get a DI from a friend that has a pad switch and is used to calm hot keyboard signals.

I was reading through to see if you had tried this yet.

These can be had relatively cheaply.

-Scott


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 23, 2013, 07:14:31 PM
Scott are you talking about the DI with the cut?


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: rockstar_not on May 24, 2013, 04:55:17 AM
Scott are you talking about the DI with the cut?

Yes,

We keep a load of Behringer powered DI boxes at church and they have a 2 stage PAD on them.  http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DI100/  If Behringer is good enough for Sweetwater, it's good enough for me. 

I have had to press these into service for mainly too hot keyboard signals, and I'm also surprised that you are getting so much gain out of the Lyric, but hey - if you know someone with  DI box that has a switchable PAD, it can't hurt trying it.

-Scott


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 24, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
Scott being that the mic is in the guitar it picks everything up all those trapped freq.,plus the mic was way to exposed to air movement {I did solve that problem}.I 've borrowed a Rolls Matchbox DB25 with a 20db and 40db cut.My duo partner use's it the same way you do for hot keyboards.I'm testing it later today after I do some work on my clients stuff.Wish me luck.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 24, 2013, 04:35:23 PM
 :nanadance :nanadance :nanadance :nanadance :nanadance the ability to reduce the singnal was the solution to all the woe's.The nasty midrange is gone and the signal cut at 20db is a bit more then needed but now I have a very natural sounding guitar.There are still some kinks to work out and I'm pretty sure all I really need is a 10db cut so now the hunt is on for a DI with a 10db cut is on.I'm not playing out until next Friday so the true test is to come.Watch this station for futher review.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: rockstar_not on May 24, 2013, 10:46:15 PM
Rob,

I found a couple of Radial DI boxes that have 15 dB pads, but 20 and 40 are way more common.  I didn't find any with just a 10 dB pad.  Here's a comparison of two different Radials and something called an ATTY which has a variable attenuation on it.

Comparison at Sweetwaterhttp://www.sweetwater.com/store/compare.php?items=%28ProDI|Pro48|ATTY%29 (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/compare.php?items=%28ProDI|Pro48|ATTY%29)


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 25, 2013, 03:19:17 AM
Was checking them out myself.I plan on putting in a call to them Tuesday.For giggle's and insanity I'm thinking of seeing if maybe,if at all possible to make a 10db pad.I'm pretty good with a soldering pen as long as I'm wearing my super dupper magnifier glass's. :roll


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: dberch on May 25, 2013, 05:06:45 PM
You mean like this?  



Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 26, 2013, 12:08:23 AM
Close but more like stacking two pair of 250 mag. on the nose. :roll


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on May 27, 2013, 03:46:29 AM
Well had a nice rehearsal tonight,well mostley it was to check out a new Shure condenser mic that has had great review's.I can't remember the modal number but its a hand held vocal maybe it was an SM86 or 84,anyway for $300 I wasn't impressed I have use less expensive mic that sounded much much better.Any tonight I ran the Lyric thru the PA for the first time with the DI with the att. set at 20db.I had to run it thru the PARA to bring it up to usable volumn and we figured that whats really going on is that there are freq that need to be calmed down more then the mic being to hot.Still had to keep the presence control back completely off,the mids at about 10 o'clock.Gain was up almost all the way and the volumn on about 1 o'clock.The good news is that we got a beautiful almost natural acoustic guitar tone {about 95%} which has been the goal.Now I'm almost happy with it.I really think I need to find a 10db to 15db cut unit that I may end up building myself.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on June 30, 2013, 04:51:31 AM
Well I hate to say this but until I can find,afford or build an variable attenuator I'm throwing in the towel after close to 30 hours.Since I wish to use the guitar at gig's I play on installing a passive Ibeam.I will at some point purchase an Anthem SL for this guitar.


Now my disclaimer:Just because I have had problems with the Lyric doesn't mean that others have had issue's and many seem to have no issue's and find the stock unit perfect for there needs and works fine with there rig's or system's.This is my no means a downing of Bagg's product I have found them to be really great people to deal with and have gone above and beyond in helping me and I'm very happy with all there other products and they are the first pu's I recommend when asked what pu should they use in there acoustic guitars.

Thanks and I hope everyone enjoys reading the adventure. :wave


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: GGBB on July 11, 2013, 03:20:26 PM
Rob - something to try - if you have access to any old volume pedal and any reasonably modern buffered effects pedal (e.g. BOSS) you can use the two of them together with the pedal in bypass mode to give you essentially a buffered volume pedal aka variable attenuator.  Lyric -> pedal -> volume -> board/amp.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on July 11, 2013, 05:22:17 PM
Gord,tried it,the buffering from the pedals doesn't effect the freq kaos that I found to be happening.But don't give up since I haven't givin up yet either,still working on it but its now installed in another guitar so that I can put my OM03PA into gigging use.Its now installed in my 72 Guild D25.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 02, 2013, 03:35:18 AM
Just noticed that this thread had over 1300 views.I ended it at a bit over 750 view's.Anyone have anything to ad,state,scream at me about,anything to add????


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: longlaketech on October 28, 2013, 09:04:45 PM
ok, I'll bite. Since I installed the Lyric in my OM, it smells up the case with plasticy smell. Now that its in the case more with the planet waves humidifier, it  smells not so nice when taken out of the case. Still sounds great thou .


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 29, 2013, 06:52:30 PM
Never had a smell issue with the mic/endpin pre-amp.I have just tried backing the gain way down as well as keeping the volumn on the PARA though helps a little bit.Still not there yet but when I can afford an eq pedal maybe I can pull more of the mids kaos out.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: broKen on October 29, 2013, 11:28:14 PM
ok, I'll bite. Since I installed the Lyric in my OM, it smells up the case with plasticy smell. Now that its in the case more with the PLANET WAVES HUMIDIFIER,,,,

Hint, flag, clue, possibility, maybe?


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: longlaketech on October 31, 2013, 12:49:30 AM
Hint, flag, clue, possibility, maybe?

Good catch. Heating season hit about the same time as I installed my Lyric. Maybe time to replace the sponge! The Lyric still sounds great o my ears anyway.


Title: Re: Lyric Review Update
Post by: Barefoot Rob on January 08, 2015, 07:34:38 PM
Well I had a chance to play the latest version of the Lyric and ALL the CR*P problems seem to be gone.The pin control that mine had was a presence's control now I was told by the client that its a treble cut and boost.What ever it is it solve the issue's and sounded great.The mic is still a bit on the hot side but very very usable. :wave


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: bobw on January 08, 2015, 09:48:37 PM
 :+1:    thanks for the update.. I appreciate your opinions and have kept the lyric at arms length.  Can you compare the lyric to a fishman rare earth blend?.....  Bobw


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on January 08, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
The rare earth has a humbucker style soundhole pu with the mic which is blendable but I have found that soundhole pu's sounded a bit to much like a standard magnetic pu.The Lyric is a mic that is attached to the top and is fairy close to having a mic out front of you.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Bas on January 23, 2015, 09:55:59 AM
Interesting posts, Unclrob. I am wondering: have you ever compared the Lyric to the Anthem? They claim the undersaddle transducer adds solidity and punch for the low frequencies, as it records everything below 250 Hz. I've got an Anthem SL myself I find it sounding increadibly well. Never had the chance to compare it to a Lyric though.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on January 23, 2015, 03:03:37 PM
When I played the Lyric I also pulled out my Anthem SL OM03PA and I have to admit I prefer the Anthem as the bass responce is smoother.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Bas on January 24, 2015, 04:34:17 PM
Good to know, thanks!


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 20, 2015, 07:01:00 PM
Just don't want to loose this to page 2 since over 5000 have read it.I hope it helps.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: homme de fer on November 05, 2015, 09:00:27 PM
I've been following along with this thread because I put a Lyric in my OM-03 MT. I run it through my Loudbox Mini without anything in between and, I've never been sure of the sound since I bought it in March. The only way I can get it working right is if I lay off on the volume wheel; maybe 1/8 of the way up. Otherwise, it feedsback like crazy regardless whether it's in phase or out.

That leads me to believe the pickup runs really hot to the amp. I was looking for a PARA DI but a Session just came up for sale on kijiji in the area for a great price. I can use that to fix things with the hot signal then address EQ issues afterwards.

I do sort of like the sound; it sounds like my guitar, only, much louder. Except, it has a lower mid "honk" that needs to be toned down. Yes, the Session won't do that, but it will help me add some compression without completely squashing my sound.

Bottom line on the Lyric, it may sound great with no preamp depending on the guitar. Others, like my Hog OM, needs a little help. Regardless, it sounds much better than any UST I've tried. Worth the price? Not sure, I probably would have been better off with a K&K and saved the money.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on November 05, 2015, 11:20:08 PM
Thanks for adding to the info.I also talked to the people at K+K a few weeks ago about there archtop pu which was not what my client wanted any way we got on to the subject of there acoustic flattop pu and like the Bagg's they for some reason build there pu on the hot side and also like Baggs the mids are boosted.I ask why and answer was vague.I like them both but wish they would just make them a flat responce to which I got no responce for a couple of seconds then was told they've heard this complaint.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: homme de fer on November 09, 2015, 03:55:43 PM
Thank unclrob, that actually is very helpful.

I had my OM in at Folkway Music and inquired about my Lyric. They felt the Lyric worked better in smaller bodied guitars while the K&K worked better with larger one's. I thought of selling the Lyric in favour of the K&K but, after reading your post, I really do believe that all pickups need some EQ of some sort. I think I'll look for a Para DI as a lost of people who had the same issues as I/we do seem to be happy after going with that DI.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: headsup on November 29, 2015, 03:59:17 PM
I installed a Lyric, on the bridge plate of the 1971 Larrivee, as the other system I had wasn't cutting it.

Although I did find some rather annoying frequencies, I inserted a high quality EQ unit with sweepable mids, and it sounded a great deal better.
The Ricky Skaggs review on the pick-up is pretty convincing, but yes I ahve always maintained, (since the very first "Barcus Berry" units hit the market), that
starting with the premise of amplifying an acoustic instrument for INSIDE the guitar was just dumb.

Regardless, in the past few decades, millions of dollars have been spent on just that.
I personally have spent tons of money buying & experimenting with the very same dumb concept, still do..

definition of "insanity"?
Keep doing the same thing, but expecting different results  :crying: :mad: :arrow :wacko: :cop:


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: skyline on November 30, 2015, 02:26:58 AM
  I personally have spent tons of money buying & experimenting with the very same dumb concept, still do..

definition of "insanity"?

Keep doing the same thing, but expecting different results  :crying: :mad: :arrow :wacko: :cop:

Aye.

It's obscenely frustrating (and career-dangerous?) to spend hours of time on the telephone line working with an instrument acoustically, only to discover that the brilliant timbral balance you thought you had achieved is utterly undone by the dimensions of a performance space, under the influence of a few obscure physics equations via the ever-changing mass of beer imbibing patrons, failed crossovers, and humidity . . .


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on November 30, 2015, 03:56:11 AM
Kevin what EQ did you use?I tried many mid price one's with no luck.I also haven't found a db cut pedal that would allow me to go below 15db I fairly sure that if I could find an adjustable unit.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on November 30, 2015, 07:15:21 AM
Aye.

It's obscenely frustrating (and career-dangerous?) to spend hours of time on the telephone line working with an instrument acoustically, only to discover that the brilliant timbral balance you thought you had achieved is utterly undone by the dimensions of a performance space, under the influence of a few obscure physics equations via the ever-changing mass of beer imbibing patrons, failed crossovers, and humidity . . .

Yes.

95% of said patrons don't really care how realistically acoustical the guitar sounds and couldn't care less if it sounds truly like the unplugged guitar.  They have no idea how it should sound in the first place.  They just want to hear some music and some good tunes.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: headsup on December 02, 2015, 03:13:08 PM
I disagree with the above sentiment, well certainly in the venues I play, it's not true.
I am fortunate to play nice places with smart people who have good ears.
Alawys lots of comments on how great m guitar sound is, what kind is it, what kind of gear etc.

plus, I just don't play to drunks any more.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on December 02, 2015, 08:45:24 PM
I need as close to the true sound of the guitar for me to enjoy what I do whether the crowd cares or not.


Kevin still need to know what EQ unit you used.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on December 03, 2015, 05:57:48 AM
I disagree with the above sentiment, well certainly in the venues I play, it's not true.
I am fortunate to play nice places with smart people who have good ears.
Alawys lots of comments on how great m guitar sound is, what kind is it, what kind of gear etc.

plus, I just don't play to drunks any more.


Can't argue with that.  The setting/situation makes a difference, for sure.  Most of my gigs (which, in numbers, are probably miniscule compared to yours and Robs) have been with rock/country cover bands in small-town bars or local dances.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Dan on April 13, 2016, 02:08:08 PM
Im dealing with a lot of the same issues you have had it seems unclrob. I installed a lyric in my OM-05 MT back in November and just can't seem to get ride of the handling noise and string squeak while playing. I play in a church setting over a good sized PA and the string squeak is just a distraction.

The question I have is does the anthem (SL or standard) seem to tone down the string squeak and handling noise?

I would consider switching over to one of these if it does.

Thanks,

Dan

PS i have not gone to great lengths to eliminate this issue, but it seems after reading that it can't be eliminated or even handled without a great deal of heartache.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on April 13, 2016, 02:16:41 PM
Dan all my issue's have gone away with the Anthem SL.It has an under the saddle pu for the low end this allow's  me more control over the tone.I do run the guitar thru the PARA pre amp then to the board.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Dan on April 13, 2016, 02:20:26 PM
thanks for the prompt reply. I run everything through a para DI. I'm going to look into getting an anthem. Thanks


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: homme de fer on June 08, 2016, 04:03:45 AM
Well, I tried a Session DI and it didn't help; tons of feedback and little control over the tone. So I picked up the PARA DI and used them together. It got a little closer to what i wanted but not nearly enough. I was about to call it quits with the Lyric till I found a deal on a Voicelive Acoustic by TC Helicon; I decided I wanted to sing and I wanted a little harmony. Well, didn't the VoiceLive clear everything right up. The unit has a notch filter and EQ along with BodyRez and, with very little knob turning, I get a nice sound that is literally "my guitar but louder".

I think the problem with the Lyric may well be that the signal is a bit hot coming out of the pickup and it needs to be cut, with the VoiceLive unit seems to be able to do easily.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Barefoot Rob on August 26, 2016, 08:08:55 PM
OK its been 3 years since I've messed with the Lyric I bought back then.I tried the pu in an OM an LS and a jumbo and was never happy with.So today for giggle's and grins I installed it in my Guild dread and guess what it works fine.Yes kids it works as advertized,scary yes but the proof is in the dread.Yes I still need to watch the amount of gain but there are no longer those nasty mid kaos freq. and it sounds almost like the guitar.Well thats the lastest report for now.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: Ceragan42 on February 13, 2017, 09:48:22 PM
I spent my bonus money from a month and a half worth of success at work on a new guitar setup. I'm switching to be primarily an acoustic player over electric. So I snagged a really nice Larrivee OM-02, had an LR Baggs Lyric installed, and stumbled across an LR Baggs Para Di in a pawn shop. Perfect, looks like I'm set. Plus I already have a Marshall AS50D acoustic amp, a Behringer acoustic amp someone left at my house, guitar amps, bass amp, recording rigs.... whatever I may need to find the right sound.

Then I read a bunch of Lyric reviews that aren't complimentary. A lot of them saying it needs eq tweaking, overly sensitive, distorted, feedbacky, etc.

Oh no! did I snag the wrong pickup for this guitar?

On day one of having it all home I spend a lot of time down in my studio dialing in all sorts of settings with the Marshall and Para di in the chain. I was mostly happy, I got good sounds, but not anything that really nailed it. I could hear everything, but there was always too much high, low, mid, or not enough this or that. I was gonna need more tweaking. I was a little afraid that I may have to find a sound that I would just have to settle with.

A few days later I go back down to my studio and take another approach. I plug directly into the most transparent and simple method of amplification I have so I can hear just the way the Lyric impacts the sound. My Behringer kick back bass amp. As a bass amp shaped like a wedge monitor, this thing sucks as a bass amp. It's lifeless. All it does is amplify sound, there's nothing special about it. I've used it for a monitor more often than as a bass amp. So it's the perfect amp for this test. I set the volume on the lyric at about 50%, set the presence control at 50%. Set all the eq knobs on the bass amp at 50%, plugged in... and....

This is the sound. This is it. Stupid simple, you gotta be kidding me. There was so much natural guitar sound coming out of that bass amp.
Feedback? Only if I got too close to the amp.
clipping? Nope.
Super clean, balanced, big sounding. Exactly what I was looking for.

So I plugged it directly into the Marshall acoustic amp, dialed all the eq knobs to 50%, pushed the anti feedback buttons to what sounded best (all out, I think), rolled the reverb up to about 15% (sorry, hippie tendencies assert themselves sometimes), and it was even better. Holy cow.

I can't say enough just how amazing this guitar sounds. It sounds like my guitar, only louder. Exactly what I was looking for.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: L07 Shooting Star on February 14, 2017, 07:57:56 AM
Ceragan42, that is a very insightful analysis.  The KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle applies here in spades.


Title: Re: Lyric Review
Post by: skyline on February 24, 2017, 02:00:11 AM
I spent my bonus money from a month and a half worth of success at work on a new guitar setup. I'm switching to be primarily an acoustic player over electric. So I snagged a really nice Larrivee OM-02, had an LR Baggs Lyric installed, and stumbled across an LR Baggs Para Di in a pawn shop. Perfect, looks like I'm set. Plus I already have a Marshall AS50D acoustic amp, a Behringer acoustic amp someone left at my house, guitar amps, bass amp, recording rigs.... whatever I may need to find the right sound.

Then I read a bunch of Lyric reviews that aren't complimentary. A lot of them saying it needs eq tweaking, overly sensitive, distorted, feedbacky, etc.

Oh no! did I snag the wrong pickup for this guitar?

On day one of having it all home I spend a lot of time down in my studio dialing in all sorts of settings with the Marshall and Para di in the chain. I was mostly happy, I got good sounds, but not anything that really nailed it. I could hear everything, but there was always too much high, low, mid, or not enough this or that. I was gonna need more tweaking. I was a little afraid that I may have to find a sound that I would just have to settle with.

A few days later I go back down to my studio and take another approach. I plug directly into the most transparent and simple method of amplification I have so I can hear just the way the Lyric impacts the sound. My Behringer kick back bass amp. As a bass amp shaped like a wedge monitor, this thing sucks as a bass amp. It's lifeless. All it does is amplify sound, there's nothing special about it. I've used it for a monitor more often than as a bass amp. So it's the perfect amp for this test. I set the volume on the lyric at about 50%, set the presence control at 50%. Set all the eq knobs on the bass amp at 50%, plugged in... and....

This is the sound. This is it. Stupid simple, you gotta be kidding me. There was so much natural guitar sound coming out of that bass amp.
Feedback? Only if I got too close to the amp.
clipping? Nope.
Super clean, balanced, big sounding. Exactly what I was looking for.

So I plugged it directly into the Marshall acoustic amp, dialed all the eq knobs to 50%, pushed the anti feedback buttons to what sounded best (all out, I think), rolled the reverb up to about 15% (sorry, hippie tendencies assert themselves sometimes), and it was even better. Holy cow.

I can't say enough just how amazing this guitar sounds. It sounds like my guitar, only louder. Exactly what I was looking for.

Apparently you need to amplify a guitar.

Is it because you are playing to a big room?