Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Recording, Pickups, Live Sound, etc. => Topic started by: Clenster on December 03, 2012, 07:42:41 PM



Title: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Clenster on December 03, 2012, 07:42:41 PM
What acoustic amp do you practice with?


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: giff06 on December 03, 2012, 07:48:14 PM
Fishman Loudbox mini. Like It! Scoop the mids to about10 o'clock, bass and treble at 12. Slight bit of reverb and light chorus.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Mikeymac on December 03, 2012, 11:36:57 PM
I have a Fender Acoustasonic Jr. that I've used off and on for years, both to plug in at home, but also on stage. It's not loud for stage work in a mixed band (with electric guitars and drums), so you would need to run a line out or mic it (we run a line out). It's one of the older ones - pre DSP effects. It's heavy, but it's a workhorse that sounds good.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 04, 2012, 06:32:51 PM
Marshall AS50D.

Same applications at Mikeymac states. fine for open mic applications, or line out to board for band setting. not as big and bulky as the Acoustisonic 30, but close. Wouldn't put it up against an AR or Fishman, but for schleppin' in and out of a car, and having in questionable environs, it works.

if I had to choose between the fender and the Marshall, I'd choose the Fender. Tilts. loud enough. 2 channel, XLR in/out, and if you're on the road, you could use it for a jackstand during a tire change.  TANK.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: carruth on December 04, 2012, 07:33:46 PM
AER wonderful amp.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: ducktrapper on December 04, 2012, 08:05:27 PM
I use a P.A. Acoustic  amps are silly things.  :laughin:


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Barefoot Rob on December 04, 2012, 09:16:29 PM
I use a powered PA cab with a 12 and horn and a Mackie mixer,ok 12 channels is a lot but its what I have.It does afford me to keep 3 guitars plugged in at all time's an each channel has a mute switch.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Thrakazog on December 05, 2012, 06:45:41 AM
I use a Phil Jones CUB AG-100.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 10, 2012, 03:09:35 PM
I use a P.A. Acoustic  amps are silly things.  :laughin:

I have to agree with this. Acoustic "amps" tend to colour the sound. and are more of an marketing ploy if anything.

Several years ago, while trying to front a band with an acoustic guitar, I tired several different acoustic "amps", none of them did the job.

I finally went out and bought a JBL EON 10 monitor.
worked beautifully, crystal clear,. lots of headroom, and cut through the mix beautifully.

Now I ONLY use a good quality monitor for acoustic guitar.

 The Mackie SMR 150's are terrific, very portable, but the compression kicks in a bit early when you lean on them..
 what would you expect for a 150 watt power amp driving a 5 inch speaker?


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 10, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
Using a powered monitor.....you bypass a board entirely? Just hit the 1/4" input? Hmmph. I'm gonna give that a go.

I agree on the poor reproduction of the acoustic amps I've used. I guess I view an acoustic amp more as a all in one portable PA, for guitar and voice, and the poor acoustic quality is the price of convenience. At open mics I'll always DI into the board.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: ducktrapper on December 10, 2012, 03:26:53 PM
I have to agree with this. Acoustic "amps" tend to colour the sound. and are more of an marketing ploy if anything.

Several years ago, while trying to front a band with an acoustic guitar, I tired several different acoustic "amps", none of them did the job.

I finally went out and bought a JBL EON 10 monitor.
worked beautifully, crystal clear,. lots of headroom, and cut through the mix beautifully.

Now I ONLY use a good quality monitor for acoustic guitar.

 The Mackie SMR 150's are terrific, very portable, but the compression kicks in a bit early when you lean on them..
 what would you expect for a 150 watt power amp driving a 5 inch speaker?

For the small gigs that I tend to do, I use a Fender Passport PD250. For not much more than an acoustic amp, it works pretty well, is very, very portable and the Bose speakers are terrific sounding. It doubles as a great stereo, as well. I occasionally miss the lack of a monitor, however. The Mackie looks interesting. Otherwise, I travel with a SansAmp Para driver DI and plug into whatever sound system they have available. With the SansAmp, I'm good either with an acoustic or electric guitar.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 10, 2012, 04:47:50 PM
For the small gigs that I tend to do, I use a Fender Passport PD250. For not much more than an acoustic amp, it works pretty well, is very, very portable and the Bose speakers are terrific sounding. It doubles as a great stereo, as well. I occasionally miss the lack of a monitor, however. The Mackie looks interesting. Otherwise, I travel with a SansAmp Para driver DI and plug into whatever sound system they have available. With the SansAmp, I'm good either with an acoustic or electric guitar.

does the sans amp colour the acoustic in any way?


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 10, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
Using a powered monitor.....you bypass a board entirely? Just hit the 1/4" input? Hmmph. I'm gonna give that a go.

I agree on the poor reproduction of the acoustic amps I've used. I guess I view an acoustic amp more as a all in one portable PA, for guitar and voice, and the poor acoustic quality is the price of convenience. At open mics I'll always DI into the board.

you can take a monitor feed FROM the board, or better yet, go direct into your powered monitor, the run a signall from there to the board.
 The Mackie is terrific for the latter, AND you can gang them!


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: ducktrapper on December 10, 2012, 04:56:21 PM
does the sans amp colour the acoustic in any way?

It depends how you use it. It has active and passive circuitry. You can bypass the driver and have it just as a DI or use it as an electric guitar amp with some colouring of the signal. Nice unit.

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/paradriverdi.html



Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: CJ on December 10, 2012, 05:24:37 PM
I use an older Carvin Stagemate https://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=S400D

Spent the money to put a 2nd lead-acid (motorcycle sized) battery in the main unit and can go 4 hours on batteries with both speakers, or 8 hours with the main unit ... handy for outdoor gigs where there's no power.

The main unit is a little heavy for lifting up on the tripod - but handy to have all the controls right there.



Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 10, 2012, 06:20:43 PM
It depends how you use it. It has active and passive circuitry. You can bypass the driver and have it just as a DI or use it as an electric guitar amp with some colouring of the signal. Nice unit.

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/paradriverdi.html

gotta get me one of those units!great idea!




Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: cke on December 10, 2012, 07:19:24 PM
What acoustic amp do you practice with?
My fingers  :roll

( :welcome: )


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 10, 2012, 10:28:09 PM
It depends how you use it. It has active and passive circuitry. You can bypass the driver and have it just as a DI or use it as an electric guitar amp with some colouring of the signal. Nice unit.

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/paradriverdi.html

 just looks like a terrific all 'round acoustic or electric pre amp/DI Thanks!
you can never fail with Pro gear./




Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: ffinke on December 11, 2012, 01:57:11 AM
Acoustic amps? Why do you need them at home?


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 11, 2012, 05:52:28 AM
I use mine with a looper for practicing.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: rockstar_not on December 11, 2012, 02:04:38 PM
FWIW, most 'Acoustic' amps are small full range amplifiers with a speaker designed to be full range, with tweed colored coverings (or brown) and usually some extra price.  Keyboard amps and powered main speakers/monitors, small PA systems are the same, full range amplifiers with a full range speaker.

Keyboard amps will lean more toward having multiple input channels (a small mixer built in essentially) for the same size package as an 'acoustic' amp , which will lean towards having some on-board effects for the guitar input channel, a channel labeled 'mic' for you vocal mic, etc.  And they generally color them brown or some other 'natural' color other than your standard black.  If you think the color makes a difference, hey, it wouldn't be the most ridiculous thing that sold a box before.

To me, keyboard amps are much more versatile boxes than 'acoustic' amps, and yes, I do keep putting the 'acoustic' in single quotes because it really is pretty silly and mostly a marketing ploy - with the differences listed above being the only real thing that separates them from small self-contained PA systems and Keyboard amplifiers.  Sonically, these devices are all designed to attempt to amplify without adding any frequency spectrum coloring to the sound.

The surest way to kill your acoustic guitar's tone is to put it through a proper electric guitar amp - where there are many factors that will significantly color the sound in usually a negative way.





Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Barefoot Rob on December 11, 2012, 03:00:02 PM
HEY NOW!!!! I love the sound of an "acoustic" guitar thru a nice old tube amp.Always sounds better then an "acoustic" guitar amp.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 11, 2012, 04:35:10 PM
WELL THEN there's a couple cool opposing theories!

cool! the other aspect of running an acoustic through a funky old tube guitar amp is, it changes the sound, and adds some very interesting harmonic overtones.
 no not for the purest of folks, but lotsa fun any way...

Something I used to tell my students, (pre thinking outside the box), was, play your electric riffs, chord changes on your acoustic (for fun and to open your mind a bit), then go and play all your acoustic diities, licks fills etc, on your electric, for the same reason.

Willie P Bennet (rip) when he toured with Fred Eaglesmith, used to run his beautiful hand made mandolin through a pedal board, adding weird efx to an otherwise straight up "folk" instrument....

 just sayin'

BTW unclrob, LOVE the theory of turning a barn door guitar into a sound port!


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: rockstar_not on December 12, 2012, 06:44:04 AM
HEY NOW!!!! I love the sound of an "acoustic" guitar thru a nice old tube amp.Always sounds better then an "acoustic" guitar amp.

Unclrob, I wouldn't say that this can't have a good effect, but it does change the color of the sound of the guitar significantly - particularly removing most of the high end in many cases.

Mostly what I'm trying to point out is that you can use a system designed to project full frequency spectrum (Powered monitors, Keyboard amps, small self-contained PA systems) just as well as an amp that is labeled as being designed for acoustic guitar.

Here's some speaker tech specs kind of proving this point with some popular lower priced 'acoustic' amps, the kind that one would practice with as the OP asks in the opening of the thread:

Ultrasound 15 W:    "coaxial speaker"
Vox AGA 30:  "6.5 in. full-range speaker provides optimum sound"
Fishman Loudbox Mini:  "    6.5 inch woofer,     1 inch tweeter"
Roland AC33 "two dual-cone 5" speakers"  It doesn't say that they are coaxial, but at Sweetwater there is a picture of the grille removed and sure enough, they have what we used to call 'whizzer cones' on the speakers.

etc.

You won't find many if any electric guitar amps with full range speakers, coaxial speakers, tweeter/woofer combinations, etc.  You will find that in keyboard amps - actually, they are better spec'ed usually with separate woofer/tweeter combinations.  Same can be said for powered monitors and self-contained PA systems.

Some of the lower end Peavey acoustic amps have some more tricked out features like built-in loopers (becoming more popular with artists like Trace Bundy) and other stuff which separates them from the Ultrasound type of thing.

Almost all of them are brown.  I find that kind of ridiculous.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: ducktrapper on December 12, 2012, 01:16:41 PM
Almost all of them are brown.  I find that kind of ridiculous.

And I always associate brown with .... acoustic, yeah that's it.  :laughin:


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: rockstar_not on December 12, 2012, 02:25:44 PM
And I always associate brown with .... acoustic, yeah that's it.  :laughin:

I wouldn't want to be the guy at amp company X, who specs a color for the amp exterior other than brown for their 'acoustic' series, and then takes that to the marketing department.  He better be wearing some thick armor!

Actually, it looks like the brown trend is waning somewhat.  5 years ago, any amp that would appear in this classification had to have brown tolex and a tweed grille cover:   http://www.sweetwater.com/c980--Acoustic_Guitar_Amps/pn1

I'll take a little keyboard amp over an 'acoustic' amp any day in the same price range.  For the money, better spec'ed speaker setup, with more versatile usage for my needs.

-Scott


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 12, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
I hear what your saying, but it's not quite THAT ubiquitous. Crates acoustic series was green with a grill like a caned chair. But AER and Fishman, the leaders in acoustic amplification (on a mass market level) have black units resembling high end stereo equipment more than electric guitar amps. But definitely not brown. True that Fender and Marshall both follow the approach you suggest.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: CJ on December 12, 2012, 04:07:39 PM
HEY NOW!!!! I love the sound of an "acoustic" guitar thru a nice old tube amp.Always sounds better then an "acoustic" guitar amp.


Me too. I sold my tube amp and tele last summer because I've decided to go all acoustic. But before I did, spent a good while playing my acoustic through that Ampeg Reverberocket (reissue) - single 12", 50WRMS, Svetlana EL34's with Tesla/JJ ECC83's ... loved the warm fat sound of it ... but couldn't justify keeping it when I have the Carvin Stagemate ...


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 12, 2012, 04:22:17 PM
Ampeg Reverberocket (reissue) - single 12", 50WRMS, Svetlana EL34's with Tesla/JJ ECC83's ...


 :drool:

Ampeg fan here. You don't miss the dark side at all? A Tele through an Ampeg is one of lifes great pleasures (says the guy who just sold his original 1965 Jet a month ago)  :crying:


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: headsup on December 12, 2012, 09:41:00 PM
I wouldn't want to be the guy at amp company X, who specs a color for the amp exterior other than brown for their 'acoustic' series, and then takes that to the marketing department.  He better be wearing some thick armor!

Actually, it looks like the brown trend is waning somewhat.  5 years ago, any amp that would appear in this classification had to have brown tolex and a tweed grille cover:   http://www.sweetwater.com/c980--Acoustic_Guitar_Amps/pn1

I'll take a little keyboard amp over an 'acoustic' amp any day in the same price range.  For the money, better spec'ed speaker setup, with more versatile usage for my needs.

-Scott

absolutely, thus my choice for monitor (vocal), I'm also of the feeling that ANY musical purchase might need to have some degree of versatility, some gigs it's a guitar monitor, some gigs it's a vocal monitor.

I also think acoustic amps should be "heard and not seen" matters not about the colour.

just my 2 cents....


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: rockstar_not on December 13, 2012, 12:44:04 AM
I hear what your saying, but it's not quite THAT ubiquitous. Crates acoustic series was green with a grill like a caned chair. But AER and Fishman, the leaders in acoustic amplification (on a mass market level) have black units resembling high end stereo equipment more than electric guitar amps. But definitely not brown. True that Fender and Marshall both follow the approach you suggest.

As did Roland, as did Ultrasound, as did most companies marketing an 'acoustic' amp.  This was before Fishman got into the amp market - which as far as I know is pretty recent.

It was ubiquitous at one time - that if you sold an amp as an amp for acoustic guitar, it was brown or at least had a grille cloth that was brown or tweed.  Black grille and silver grilles were for electric guitars!

Crate: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/images/130U/130U-8690_front.jpg
Roland: http://www.musicoz.org/media/385-roland%20ac100.jpg
Ultrasound: http://www.guitaradoptions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2c8943542ef2c4c315a85c930d2c93bb.jpg
Fishman:  http://www.premierguitar.com/Stream/StreamImage.aspx?Image_ID=95C69866-D7E6-4066-9673-E81FB2670728&Image_Type=image
Peavey: http://www.bazaar-world.com/uploads/amp/44/280273293319-1.jpg
Dean Markley:  http://static.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/18/001/638/543/DV016_Jpg_Large_H76834_V.jpg  (well, that one is by Ultrasound)
Dean Markley - non Ultrasound branded from before:  http://www.jimlaabsmusic.com/images/uploads/guitarAmps/dean-markley-8-3-10-k65-1.jpg
Kustom: http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/poc/120806/926r1/2181mdd_27.jpeg

Fender models, same.
Marshall models, same.

Think of any amp company that has marketed an 'acoustic' amp and search for that company and the words 'acoustic amp' on google images, and you'll see that the older models followed the examples above.  I think Carvin might be the exception.

Actually, just do a google search on images for 'acoustic guitar amplifier' - almost without fail, for older models, it's tan/brown/tweed.  No black or silver allowed.  Bronze color backing plates for the controls also nearly ubiquitous.

It's refreshing to see that this silly trend is waning.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Barefoot Rob on December 13, 2012, 12:50:29 AM
absolutely, thus my choice for monitor (vocal), I'm also of the feeling that ANY musical purchase might need to have some degree of versatility, some gigs it's a guitar monitor, some gigs it's a vocal monitor.

I also think acoustic amps should be "heard and not seen" matters not about the colour.

just my 2 cents....


 :+1: my power pa that I use to mic my princeton reverb also amps my acoustic and midi.I have used as a one speaker pa for a porch gig and I have used a monitor just for me and as a monitor and slave for other monitors.Very versitile.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: CJ on December 13, 2012, 01:39:59 AM

 :drool:

Ampeg fan here. You don't miss the dark side at all? A Tele through an Ampeg is one of lifes great pleasures (says the guy who just sold his original 1965 Jet a month ago)  :crying:


I'd miss them if their sale hadn't helped me buy something I like a whole lot more (http://www.vjam.net/larry/00-50MTsm.jpg).


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 13, 2012, 04:17:30 AM

I'd miss them if their sale hadn't helped me buy something I like a whole lot more (http://www.vjam.net/larry/00-50MTsm.jpg).


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Mr_LV19E on December 13, 2012, 05:09:29 AM
Me, I like the brown on my Genz Benz. (http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/SHEN100.htm)

I never really wanted to play electric because I didn't like the black amps.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: ducktrapper on December 13, 2012, 01:50:52 PM
Me, I like the brown on my Genz Benz. (http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/SHEN100.htm)

I never really wanted to play electric because I didn't like the black amps.

Yeah but you need the black amps to play Black Dog, Paint it Black or any Black Sabbath.  :wink:   


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: rockstar_not on December 13, 2012, 01:56:37 PM
Me, I like the brown on my Genz Benz. (http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/SHEN100.htm)

I never really wanted to play electric because I didn't like the black amps.

 :tongue:

I bet that genz benz sounds nice.  Interesting switch on the back for the level of the tweeter.  I bet switching it off might make it fairly useful for electric, the mids would be more dominant in the end sound.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Barefoot Rob on December 15, 2012, 04:57:34 PM
Acousticly I'm using an active Ibeam thru there PARA into a Soundcraft PA that is set flat.My Guild Jumbo has the Anthem SL system which so far is the best system I've heard even though I still prefer a good mic but some of the places I play they just don't work.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: bluesman67 on July 24, 2013, 01:45:10 PM
Portable PA's are usually a better option to an acoustic amp.  More power, more versatility; however...  I recently considered the Mackie and a Fishman Loudbox Mini. For what I needed, to do a solo gig... plug in an acoustic guitar, a Sure mic, and my stompbox to stomp a beat, the Fishman was the best choice.  It's not like most acoustic amps I've heard, a nice natural tone at both high and low volumes.  It was price effective, the damn little thing only weighs 20 lbs, and the auxiliary 1/4" input makes it effectively a 3 channel amp when I pre-amp my stompbox.  I couldn't be happier with the tone.  I also liked the Roland AC-60 for a natural tone but the Fishman is a louder box...hence the name Loudbox!  Quick easy setup.  The tone is just as good the 50lb Fender PA and tri-pods we lug around when for our duo gigs.  The Mackie's are nice too but more costly, no built in reverb for singing.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: flatlander on July 24, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
My fingers  :roll

( :welcome: )
uWell, same here. Only use amplification when doing gigs. We practice acoustically.
At gig's us SR Technogies RA 400. 5 chan mixer with plenty of ins and outs, built in effects, delay reverb, Can take 3 xlr's. Has great front end for passive pickups. requires no preamp or DI. Smaller units are now available in US (had to get mine from Italy) I can't remember which company picked them up for US distribution . They got rave reviews though at NAMM last year, I think it was.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: AtlasHeating on October 07, 2013, 12:44:46 AM
Acoustic amps are not the same as a PA system.
I just purchased a Fishman Loudbox 100 (used) and I am amazed at the sound quality. It is different than a straight sound system, and much different than a keyboard amp.
This amp makes any of my pickups sound good. I can even make the KK pure western in my Larrivee sound good. (It does not sound good through a PA system, or a regular amp.)
I realize all amps are not equal so this Fishman is the exception, but I am impressed.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: bluesman67 on October 07, 2013, 01:19:06 AM
Loudbox sounds best to me! What a great little amp. Its really the ultimate solo amp.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: Thrakazog on October 07, 2013, 08:59:17 AM
I pretty much just play for my own enjoyment, nowadays. But my father's girlfriend has a huge family that like to have large outdoor get togethers/party/BBQ's all the time. They often have one or more people playing at the events.

When I choose to participate, I'll bring my K&K Pure Mini equipped Larrivee, Ultrasound DI Plus pre-amp, and Phil Jones CUB AG-100 Amp.


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: RJM on October 19, 2013, 12:21:07 AM
At home I never play plugged in.  Not even the best acoustic amp can reproduce the quality of sound you are used
to hearing.  However when playing in venues of larger dimensions than the typical living room amplification is usually
required for your audience to receive the sound.  I use an Ultrasound 100 which produces a very realistic sound and
has some very nice effects, though I usually use only a few from time to time.  RJM


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: bluesman67 on October 19, 2013, 02:04:34 AM
Yeah if you're plugging in at home you just need put down the acoustic and play an electric!


Title: Re: Acoustic Amp
Post by: longlaketech on October 22, 2013, 02:05:10 AM
I use my Roland AC-60 all the time for house party type situations. Sounds great. Would like try a loudbox sometime, but think I would go with a portable PA if I 'upgrade'.