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Main Forums => Larrivee Electric Guitars => Topic started by: Tio Kimo on October 31, 2012, 06:18:48 PM



Title: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on October 31, 2012, 06:18:48 PM
Hello folks.
I'm a longtime Larrivee acoustic owner, and am looking at an RS2, glossy, with Humbuckers. I was hoping to find some sort of concise history of the model, but it's not coming up. could someone possible drop a link in this thread to another thread that may help, or, care to share an outline?

What I'm wondering....

when did the model debut?
Are the original humbuckers Larrivee wound?
One piece bodies?
Neck geometry consistant with acoustics on this model?
Is the original "gloss" finish a nitro or poly finish?

they seem like a fantastic value, which shouldn't surprise me given what a fantastic guitar my LV03 is.

Thanks for the info!


 


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on October 31, 2012, 09:31:05 PM
Here (http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=31549.0) is a long thread (6 pages) from when the RS-2 was first announced (in 2010).

To answer your question, it would seem that the RS-2 was released around the time Larrivee 3rd generation humbuckers were being used, so all RS-2s that have humbuckers should have the 3rd generation.

Many of these have one piece bodies...pretty sure mine does...

It has a poly finish, same as Larrivee uses on their other electric and acoustic guitars. Early RS-2's had a gloss body and a satin neck. I ordered an RS-2 with an all satin finish sometime in 2011, and after building mine, Matthew decided he liked the all satin finish, and shortly after that the "2nd Generation" RS-2 was born with an all satin finish, wrap-around one piece bridge tailpiece, and either one or two P-90's (at this point humbuckers probably became a special order item). There is now something of a 3rd Generation RS-2 which is similar to the 2nd, but with new finishes available, and it now comes standard with 1 volume/1 tone and a Tele style 3-way pickup switch by the V/T/ knobs (rather than a Gibson style switch on the upper bout like the RS-4).

The neck shape is very similar to the acoustics, but with a 1 11/16" nut. As Matthew says below, 12" fingerboard radius.

Here, in no particular order, are some other quotes from Matthew Larrivee about this particular model and also his pickups:

The Larrivee P-90's are partially accurate to vintage models - I did model them after a 54 soapbar, but I put a slight twist on them. Many of the details are vintage correct (Screw alloys, Magnet wire, braided lead, etc) but I changed the baseplate to Nickel Silver - which I think sounds way better and cleaner than traditional brass (Probably why Seth Lover chose Nickel Silver for PAF's). In addition, older P-90's used the commonly available AlNiCo 3 magnets. I did countless tests with A3 and just could not bring myself to like it. I finally settled on A8 and A6. AlNiCo 8 in the bridge makes the pup so responsive to touch, and beautifully clean to average playing.. but strike a little harder and it growls. It has a throatiness and drive that I just love. The AlNiCo 6 in the neck is totally off vintage spec, but it does wonders for a neck pup. It full and vibrant, with a distinctive bite. Excellent mid range with clarity that you dont see in neck pups. Many neck pickups I try sound washed out, where as these just ooze mojo.

Many makers make higher wind P-90's (11+ kohms), probably because they attempting to compensate for a tone they dont like. It has the effect of darkening the pickup and driving it too hard. I like a low to vintage wind (7.5-8.8kohms). It will handle anything you throw at it and sound great in virtually any style from Jazz to Punk Rock.

So to answer your question - Yes they are a vintage wind - but with a well thought out twist.

I like clarity and definition. Like in acoustics, I like balance between low mids and highs where no specific frequency range appears dominant. Yet at the same time, I want it to growl when you dig in - Really drive the amp. It needs good attack but not too quick. In general I prefer the sound of gibson style pickups over fender style pickups (pole piece instead of direct magnet).


On March 16, 2011, Matthew Larrivee wrote:

All RS-2's use the latest generation humbucker - known as the G3.

When I learned pickup making, I was faced with alot of so called "Common Wisdom". I like to think that tonally, I can read past alot of bullshit and decide for myself what "I" think sounds good.

The first pickups we made used Alnico 5 and Alnico 2 because, well that’s what everyone used - but it wasn’t the sound that I had in my head (Don’t get me wrong, I still think they are great pups). I started working with Alnico 4 and it was closer. Then one day I got this somewhat obscure Alnico 8 as a sample and it was exactly what I was looking for in the bridge - like an AHA! moment. The problem then was neck pickup - until I tried another obscure magnet Alnico 6. The A6 balances the A8 very well, yet creates distinct tones in both positions.

The pickup is unique in that many of the features are dead on PAF re-creations, and then other parts stray to where we want them to go. Take the bobbins for example - They are exact - and I mean EXACT replicas of PAF bobbins. The plastic is the same, the measurements are the same, the tooling marks as the same, the fit of the slugs are the same, the dye is the same, and I even included the original Gibson text on the inside of the bobbin (a feature no one will likely ever see). There are only a handfull of people in the world that would be able to tell the difference between our bobbin and the original... someday I'll post pictures. yet at the same time the magnets are totally different as are the pole screws.

IIRC, since the beginning of the RS-2 the fretboard radius has been 12" non compound.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on November 02, 2012, 03:45:17 AM
MikeyMac...THANK YOU. exactly what I was looking for. I will take the time to wade through that thread. Although at this point it's somewhat academic. I committed to the glossy RS2 that i played for an hour tonight. So frickin' comfortable. That belly carve and 7 lbs could go all night. The thing that made it melt into my hands is ironically the same thing that gave me pause....the neck. So similar to my LV03 that it felt like home....but electrically...bluesy wise, I'm most accustomed to the 24.5" scale.  But it was too comfortable and sounded too good (through 3 different amps...a '65 Ampeg J12A, a boutique 5F1, and a Little Lanilei.) that I couldn't pass it up. NGD announcement forthcoming next week.

Thanks again.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 02, 2012, 01:15:02 PM
MikeyMac...THANK YOU. exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks again.

 :+1: nice summary Mike

Essentially there are 5 Generations of the Larrivee RS-2 body style. Maybe some pics of each generation could be posted. ( I have 3 of them  :smile: Will post later if someone else doesn't in the meantime as on my mobile  :wacko:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 02, 2012, 02:28:14 PM
:+1: nice summary Mike

Essentially there are 5 Generations of the Larrivee RS-2 body style. Maybe some pics of each generation could be posted. ( I have 3 of them  :smile: Will post later if someone else doesn't in the meantime as on my mobile  :wacko:

The main difference in one -or a couple of - those generations is the addition of a pickguard, and changing from a TOM and stoptail piece to a one piece TOM wrap around bridge. The body style hasn't really changed, although they did add a forearm cut on newer ones - don't know if that's still there or not...


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on November 02, 2012, 04:25:24 PM
Wow, 5 generations in a model not even 3 years old? Well you can accuse them of being stubborn about making changes!!

that 6 page thread really didn't talk too much about the RS2 beyond the product announcement, which was cool to read.

I take it that the reason that the first RS2's had a G3 humbucker is because G1 and G2 were developed and sold for the RS4?

What I was able to determine from my time with the guitar last night, definitely 1 piece body. Uncovered humbuckers, standard Tone Pros Nashville/stoptail hardware (LOVE the Klusons, installed them on my Heritage a while back).

truss rod adj...not necessary on the guitar at this time, but what tool is used? I noticed the access pocket, but didn't feel free to be pooping covers off til I take her home. A neat approach, and gives you a much stronger headstock angle portion. These seem to be really well thought out guitars. What kind of production numbers on these, do "we" know?


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 02, 2012, 05:02:34 PM

I take it that the reason that the first RS2's had a G3 humbucker is because G1 and G2 were developed and sold for the RS4?

Nothing more than timing. The RS 4 predated the RS 2 by a couple of years. When the RS2 went into production the G3 Humbucker was already established. If it had been produced a year earlier it could have ended up with a G2.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Matthew Larrivee on November 02, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
It's only been a couple of years, but I already strain to remember it all :>

The RS-2 started with an idea to make a lower cost RS-4, so keep that premise in mind I explain.

Generation 1 - The first generation never got past the prototype stage, if I remember correctly there are about 5 or 6 in existance. They were shaped like the RS-4, and had a 1/4" thick maple top, and a mahogany back. They were also bound in ivoroid I believe that all of them had P-90's. It never went to production mostly because it was too similar to the RS-4, and almost as costly to make.

Generation 2 - The second generation also never got past the prototype stage. There are two in existance, both made from Alder. If I remember correctly 1 was yellow and one was candy apple. I believe they were also thicker than current. The bodies were made from 8/4 Alder, where as the current bodies are made from 6/4 Mahogany. I believe both are owned by forum members.

Generation 3 - Was the first mahogany slab based RS-2. It was a slab mahogany body (Both 1 and 2 piece bodies were made). It featured gloss finish, and two un-covered humbuckers. Other than the pickup cover being removed, the pickup is identical. Due to D'marzio's rediculous "Double Cream" trademark, there were no versions with double cream pickups. The colors were simple earth tones (Amber, Trans-Red, Black, Tobacco). There may have been a few made with P-90's but I dont remember.

Generation 4 - The RS-2 became a satin finish model, now with P-90's standard.

Generation 5 - A "cupped" forarm contour, and pickguard were added to the instrument. The forearm controur sort of forced your arm into one particular playing position. The pickguards were made from Black Acrylic, but some of the Amber guitars had faux tortoise pickguards (same material as on the acoustic). While we still offered the standard earth tones, fender-style pastels were added. New colors included TV Yellow, Sonic Blue, Daphne Blue, Seafoam Green, Gibson Gold. The pickguards were held on with specialty adhesive.

Generation 6 - A fairly radical change to the model occured. First the "Cupped" forearm contour was replaced with the cresent forearm contour (The new contour matches the one on the bakersfield and lancaster so as to provide uniformity to our electric line. The idea came from Seymour's Telegib). The control cavity was also changed to match the control cavity on the lancaster. The 3 way switch was moved down to the control pocket (Primarily due to the difficulty of drilling a 20" hole in a straight line through the body). The gibson style toggle switch was replaced with a fender 3 way rocker switch. We also moved to a single volume and single tone control. The new configuration allowed for multiple configurations (1, 2 and 3 pickup versions) in the same cavity). Other features included revised version of the soapbar pickups. The pickguard was changed to a screw-on pickguard as well. All serial numbers became black decals instead of cream (Purely a cost saving change as black costs about a nickel, the cream cost almost $2/ea).

Additional Notes:
- There are probably a few hybrids between gen 5 and 6
- The tuners changed from schallers/pings to klusons sometime around generation 4 but there was no definitive cross over point.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on November 02, 2012, 09:15:37 PM
Matthew, I appreciate you taking the time to answer so thoroughly! And let me say, NICE job. This was my first exposure to the RS line and I absolutely love the guitar, and I'm pretty picky!  :bowdown:

So I clearly am looking at a Gen 3, as it is a 1 piece slab, gloss, trans red, uncovered buckers, Klusons. I saw elsewhere the electrical specs of PIO NOS caps, CTS pots, and have begun to read on the forum regarding your handwound p'ups.  What a practical and thorough approach to making a no frills top end instrument.

Do you have an idea of how many of the Glossy RS2's were produced before the next evolution?

This thread will hopefully be a resource for what I believe will be a benchmark guitar. I've seen the latest P90 version popping up quite a bit!


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 02, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
It's only been a couple of years, but I already strain to remember it all :>

Generation 3 - Was the first mahogany slab based RS-2. It was a slab mahogany body (Both 1 and 2 piece bodies were made). It featured gloss finish, and two un-covered humbuckers. Other than the pickup cover being removed, the pickup is identical. Due to D'marzio's rediculous "Double Cream" trademark, there were no versions with double cream pickups. The colors were simple earth tones (Amber, Trans-Red, Black, Tobacco). There may have been a few made with P-90's but I dont remember.

Generation 4 - The RS-2 became a satin finish model, now with P-90's standard.

Additional Notes:
- There are probably a few hybrids between gen 5 and 6
- The tuners changed from schallers/pings to klusons sometime around generation 4 but there was no definitive cross over point.

Thank you for taking the time to write this up, Matthew!

Additional notes/memory joggers:

There were a few Generation 3/gloss bodied models with P-90 pickups at the end of the run. I almost bought a red one, and I've seen several others. But then I (special) ordered one in amber with satin on the body and neck. So I have a Gen. 3 with satin body and P-90's ... AND it also has the Kluson tuners. 

This special order *may have* sparked the idea to go all satin on the Generation 4 RS-2...  :bgrin:





Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 02, 2012, 09:47:22 PM

Generation 6 - A fairly radical change to the model occured. First the "Cupped" forearm contour was replaced with the cresent forearm contour (The new contour matches the one on the bakersfield and lancaster so as to provide uniformity to our electric line. The idea came from Seymour's Telegib). The control cavity was also changed to match the control cavity on the lancaster. The 3 way switch was moved down to the control pocket (Primarily due to the difficulty of drilling a 20" hole in a straight line through the body). The gibson style toggle switch was replaced with a fender 3 way rocker switch. We also moved to a single volume and single tone control.

The new configuration allowed for multiple configurations (1, 2 and 3 pickup versions) in the same cavity).

Other features included revised version of the soapbar pickups. The pickguard was changed to a screw-on pickguard as well. All serial numbers became black decals instead of cream (Purely a cost saving change as black costs about a nickel, the cream cost almost $2/ea).

 :ohmy: How awesome would it be to have an RS-2 with 3 P-90's on it (and a 5-way Strat style switch)...I sense another special order coming on...  :drool:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 02, 2012, 10:05:32 PM
:ohmy: How awesome would it be to have an RS-2 with 3 P-90's on it (and a 5-way Strat style switch)...I sense another special order coming on...  :drool:
Yup felt the same way  :blush:

Gen 7:

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/joycefromNS/1_zpsb92aa5c0.jpg)

Gen 3:

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/joycefromNS/5_zps4bd5fb84.jpg)

Gen 1:

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/joycefromNS/4_zpsc091b96c.jpg)


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Matthew Larrivee on November 02, 2012, 10:10:58 PM
:ohmy: How awesome would it be to have an RS-2 with 3 P-90's on it (and a 5-way Strat style switch)...I sense another special order coming on...  :drool:

<cough cough> forum guitar <cough cough>


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: GA-ME on November 02, 2012, 10:45:47 PM
Man, that Gen 3 really is understated elegance. If it had a 1 3/4 inch nut, I might be driven to thievery Joyce...


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 02, 2012, 10:54:11 PM
<cough cough> forum guitar <cough cough>

I'M IN ... after seeing that Andrew has one - it really exists!!! Forum or not, I'm all in!


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 02, 2012, 10:55:25 PM
Gen 7:

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag157/joycefromNS/1_zpsb92aa5c0.jpg)

 :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
 :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

BTW - does it have a 5-way pup switch? How do the in-between (2 & 4) settings sound?


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: SouthpawGuy on November 02, 2012, 11:53:15 PM
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
 :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

BTW - does it have a 5-way pup switch? How do the in-between (2 & 4) settings sound?

Here's a little booster for your imagination


 :cop:  :cheers




Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 03, 2012, 05:04:14 AM
SouthpawGuy .. now that was just CRUEL!!!  :crying:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 03, 2012, 02:59:58 PM
Andrew,

How do you like that wrap-around tail piece compared to your other two RS-2s with the TOM and stoptail piece?

Anyone else who has an opinion on this feel free to share as well.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: SouthpawGuy on November 03, 2012, 03:06:38 PM
SouthpawGuy .. now that was just CRUEL!!!  :crying:

I had to go there, it's in my contract.   :tongue:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: SouthpawGuy on November 03, 2012, 03:08:19 PM
And another question re the RS-2 / 3 P-90 ..... is the middle pickup RWRP for hum cancelling ?


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 03, 2012, 08:57:13 PM
And another question re the RS-2 / 3 P-90 ..... is the middle pickup RWRP for hum cancelling ?

I'm betting yes, since on the 2 pup version they are hum cancelling in the middle position.

Also Andrew, how *quacky* are those 2 & 4 positions?



Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on November 08, 2012, 02:45:14 PM
This thread serves as such a great microcosm of GAS and it's consequences. A request for a history lesson quickly de-volves/evolves into a discussion of the NEXT guitar acquisition. Feels like home.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 08, 2012, 03:31:02 PM
This thread serves as such a great microcosm of GAS and it's consequences. A request for a history lesson quickly de-volves/evolves into a discussion of the NEXT guitar acquisition. Feels like home.

Glad we can be of assistance ... we aims to please!!!   :roll


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on November 09, 2012, 10:18:51 PM
Andrew,

I'm still curious, how are the in-between sounds on your RS-2 with 3 P-90s? Inquiring minds want to know!  :arrow


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on November 09, 2012, 11:36:10 PM
the in between tone you will not be disappointed. The pups are of course ML  stellar. There are, as you would expect many different tones seemingly endless options virtually impossible on any of my other gits. Crisp & warm of course as expected from P90's

I'm still tinkering and just got a new tube amp recently so am in heaven  :doh




Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: LeftyBlake on December 09, 2012, 11:43:02 PM
I just stumbled on to this thread in my search for answers on the different generations of the RS-2! Very informative thread and answered all my questions  :nana_guitar

And that three P-90 RS-2 is totally awesome! Did someone mention another forum guitar?  :whistling:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 10, 2012, 12:26:15 AM
I just stumbled on to this thread in my search for answers on the different generations of the RS-2! Very informative thread and answered all my questions  :nana_guitar


It would be nice if one of the two members who have a Generation 2 would post a pic or two  :blush:

Also the Gen 4, 5 and 6 would be swell as well  :smile:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: LeftyBlake on December 10, 2012, 12:36:45 AM
That would be quite cool.

I'm curious if I could order an RS-2 with a pickguard made from their tortoise shell material. I love Larrivee's tort.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 10, 2012, 09:17:53 AM
It would be nice if one of the two members who have a Generation 2 would post a pic or two  :blush:

Also the Gen 4, 5 and 6 would be swell as well  :smile:

Coming soon at a website near you.  For now here are some photos of #1 of 2, of the Generation 2 RS-2's.  It is one of my favorites. :smile:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on December 10, 2012, 03:14:50 PM
Mike,

That red one is unique - you don't see very many RS-2's with painted necks!  :nice guitar:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 10, 2012, 11:50:47 PM
Mike,

That red one is unique - you don't see very many RS-2's with painted necks!  :nice guitar:

The RS-4 headstock, and the Alder body also makes it quite different as well.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: ducktrapper on December 11, 2012, 04:11:20 AM
the in between tone you will not be disappointed. The pups are of course ML  stellar. There are, as you would expect many different tones seemingly endless options virtually impossible on any of my other gits. Crisp & warm of course as expected from P90's

I'm still tinkering and just got a new tube amp recently so am in heaven  :doh




Well, we appear to be on the same page.




Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on December 11, 2012, 05:16:52 PM
The RS-4 headstock, and the Alder body also makes it quite different as well.

Alder body? Never heard of one made of alder - that is interesting...


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 11, 2012, 05:53:13 PM
from earlier in this thread......

Generation 2 - The second generation also never got past the prototype stage. There are two in existance, both made from Alder. If I remember correctly 1 was yellow and one was candy apple. I believe they were also thicker than current. The bodies were made from 8/4 Alder, where as the current bodies are made from 6/4 Mahogany. I believe both are owned by forum members.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 11, 2012, 05:57:39 PM
Well, we appear to be on the same page.

dude. seriously. I want to come over.


 :nice guitar: :drool: :bowdown: :cheers


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 11, 2012, 07:22:04 PM
The RS-4 headstock, and the Alder body also makes it quite different as well.
A beauty, would luv to compare with a Gen 3


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 11, 2012, 07:23:43 PM
Well, we appear to be on the same page.



Yup the RS-4 and Mack Amps two of the best kept secrets in the World of Electric Guitars. Wouldn't trade mine for nothing else


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 11, 2012, 09:41:00 PM
perpetuating the thread veer, here, apologies....

but which Mack are you playing through,  Mr. Nova Scotia, sir? BTW, My Grandmother was born in Canning.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 11, 2012, 11:57:47 PM
The Gem is really that; a Gem simple and easy to use. Great for playing at home

The Heatseeker tho only 18watts is about the loudest 18 watt that I have experienced that is a joy at band practice.

Like Larrivee boutique quality at an every day musicians budget!!


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 12, 2012, 12:25:00 AM
It's only been a couple of years, but I already strain to remember it all :>
Additional Notes:
- The tuners changed from schallers/pings to klusons sometime around generation 4 but there was no definitive cross over point.
Can't say I recall seeing an RS 2 with something other than Kluson :?


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 12, 2012, 12:40:18 AM
One of my RS-2s came with Larrivee ping tuners with ivroid buttons.



Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 27, 2012, 02:56:53 PM
Gents....considered starting a new thread, but since my question pertains to identifying different progressions of the RS-2, I figured this would serve well.

I'm considering a P90 equipped RS-2. Reading Matthews overview, it seems to me that the RS-2 shown on the company website is still Gen5, with the upper bout pickup selector and glued on PG. Does anyone here have photos of Gen6, with a fender style selector switch in the control cavity and a screwed on PG?

I've been wanting a P90 equipped guitar for some time. I have an amp that I think would be off the hook with a set. Have looked at a couple different guitars for this, but with the love I have for my Gen3 RS-2 with ML buckers.....I can't see why I'd spend more for some cookie cutter mass produced guitar when one of these can fit the bill.

Show 'em if you got 'em.   :gotpics: :thumb


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 28, 2012, 02:02:36 AM
One of my RS-2s came with Larrivee ping tuners with ivroid buttons.


Looks like one of mine was from around the same time ( if the ser # means anything) and its a Gen 3 with Klusons


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 28, 2012, 02:07:59 AM
And a Friend of mine with the lowest Gen 3 serial # that I have seen which has both Klusons and P90's. Thus from my viewpoint I find Matthews post a little confusing  :blush:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 28, 2012, 02:36:07 AM
Well, that still makes sense to me, JFNS.....

If the Gen 3 began as gloss/buckers/ping and ended gloss/buckers(few P90)/kluson, then your buddies is still consistant with being a Gen 3. If its satin/P90/kluson, it's simply a Gen4.

Mine is Gloss/buckers/Kluson....which seems to be the most common/typical Gen3.

The only guitar I've seen with the dbl knob/f-style 3 way is Mikey's triple P90, and it's got no guard. Aside from that it meets Matt's Gen6 description. the photos on the site definately match the Gen5 description to a T

The RS-2 I'm looking at is all Gen5, BUT for the fact that it's got screws on the pickguard, making it one of the "hybrids" he's refers to.

I wonder if this is how Darwin felt??  :wacko:

Generation 3 - Was the first mahogany slab based RS-2. It was a slab mahogany body (Both 1 and 2 piece bodies were made). It featured gloss finish, and two un-covered humbuckers. Other than the pickup cover being removed, the pickup is identical. Due to D'marzio's rediculous "Double Cream" trademark, there were no versions with double cream pickups. The colors were simple earth tones (Amber, Trans-Red, Black, Tobacco). There may have been a few made with P-90's but I dont remember.

Generation 4 - The RS-2 became a satin finish model, now with P-90's standard.

Additional Notes:
- There are probably a few hybrids between gen 5 and 6
- The tuners changed from schallers/pings to klusons sometime around generation 4 but there was no definitive cross over point.


FWIW - my serial number is 107280...meaning its very close to the one you show, actually later, but with buckers, meaning it was likely later in the Gen3 cycle, when P90's were starting to work their way in. Also, the Ping mounted headstock is 111..., maybe they just had some Ping available, needed to meet delivery, and applied them, in a much later guitar. Matt states "no definitive cross over point". As a former manufacturer, I can see using NOS components, proven, if it enables you to deliver on time. Some little shop only got a couple guitars, and those "2" went out with Pings....I can see that sort of thing. Clearly, just speculatin'. Gen3 was clearly adolescence for this design. Experimentation, growing pains, a few nights you'd rather forget.....



Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 28, 2012, 03:26:28 AM
Tio I guess the point of my posts of where my confusion lies is that there were definitely Gen 3's with P90's and Kluson was more the norm than the exception ( from ones I have seen - tho admittedly a few less than Matthew :-)  :humour:

BTW I believe that would be my triple P90 you were referring to  :wave I agree it does meet the Gen 6 description ( with of course the added PUP)

The confusion re the tuners that I have is partly Matt's statement " The tuners changed from schallers/pings to klusons sometime around generation 4 but there was no definitive cross over point". From my recollection almost everything I have seen prior to and including Gen 3 and those subsequent to Gen 3 had the Kluson tuners ( Cybercanyon's being the rare bird with the pings)

Here is my Gen 1 with the Klusons and a few of the 5 or 6 that I saw also had the Klusons. Now maybe I am mis-reading and misunderstanding the info that was provided  :arrow


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 28, 2012, 03:43:36 AM
Dohhhhh!! missed the boat on the Ventura I was eyeballin'. Sold while I was writing that previous note.  :yak:

oh well, GAS has struck. The virus is now in full bloom. We shall see.




Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on December 28, 2012, 06:45:50 PM
Maybe Cybercanyon/Mike requested non-Kluson tuners on his ... some folks don't like Klusons because of bad past experience.  :?

Also, I believe the DiMarzio "patent" has to do with "zebra" bobbin pickups, not double cream, but someone correct me if I'm mistaken. (I have a set of double cream Larrivee humbuckers in the guitar below. All three guitars in the last picture have Larrivee humbuckers in them ... sorry: off topic!)


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 28, 2012, 06:53:07 PM
All three guitars in the last picture have Larrivee humbuckers in them ... sorry: off topic!)
Going off topic to look at those pics I could do all day  :drool: Still luv the green. Nice line-up!!!


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 28, 2012, 07:11:51 PM
Going off topic to look at those pics I could do all day  :drool: Still luv the green. Nice line-up!!!

 :+1:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 28, 2012, 07:29:21 PM
just realized, I've been totally remiss in posting photos of my Gen3, for purely studious purposes of course. Mine is same as your's Joyce....gloss/kluson/bucker

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/tiokimo/Larrivee%20RS2/P1130548.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/tiokimo/Larrivee%20RS2/P1130543.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/tiokimo/Larrivee%20RS2/P1130556.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/tiokimo/Larrivee%20RS2/photo1.jpg)


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 28, 2012, 09:48:05 PM
Maybe Cybercanyon/Mike requested non-Kluson tuners on his ... some folks don't like Klusons because of bad past experience.  :?


The RS2 in question is a non-production experimental hybrid.  I did not order it custom from Larrivee, it was purchased from another party.  The Pings are leftovers from 2000.  This RS2 has SD P-rails with triple shots.  The tuners, pickups and rings are all original equipment.  It is a really cool guitar.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 28, 2012, 09:51:17 PM
Here are some pics.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 28, 2012, 10:14:36 PM
Also, I believe the DiMarzio "patent" has to do with "zebra" bobbin pickups, not double cream, but someone correct me if I'm mistaken. (I have a set of double cream Larrivee humbuckers in the guitar below. All three guitars in the last picture have Larrivee humbuckers in them ... sorry: off topic!)

It pertains to the exposed double cream PAF pickups.  It is a visual trademark not at mechanical patent.  Pickup manufacturers cannot sell creme double bobbin pups.  However, if the cream bobbins happen to be manufactured with metal covers then the trademark is in intact since the bobbins are mechanical not visual.  It is a different story if a user removes the pup cover and finds creme bobbins.  It is then not OEM and is an owner aftermarket mechanical modification.  Least wise that is the way I interpreted it.  It is a stupid trademark in my opinion.  I don't know if anyone has ever challenged DeMarzio on it.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: kaos on December 28, 2012, 10:18:01 PM
Here are pics of one I bought off Ebay.  I do not know if it is Gen 3 or 4.  I looks satin white to me but maybe it is TV yellow.

(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1771_zps3a287cd2.jpg)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1772_zpsb1f26466.jpg)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1780_zpsd6c10696.jpg)

mary


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Cybercanyon on December 28, 2012, 10:32:53 PM
 :nice guitar:

Very nice guitar Mary.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 28, 2012, 10:53:30 PM
Here are pics of one I bought off Ebay.  I do not know if it is Gen 3 or 4.  I looks satin white to me but maybe it is TV yellow.

Is the finish Satin or Gloss :? Looks Gloss on my screen  :drool: thus she's a Gen 3 if so

 :nice guitar:


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: kaos on December 29, 2012, 12:08:30 AM
The guitar is flat white so I guess that makes her generation 4.

mary


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Tio Kimo on December 29, 2012, 06:45:27 PM
Mary, Dig the arctic white, sans pickguard. Nice.

Cybercannon...Prails! and a pickguard. Good timing sharing that, I was just looking at my photos yesterday after a discussion about the physical similarities between an RS-2 and a SG (not cosmetic, but actual physics, materials and and construction)

Wondered what a PG on Gloss Red would look like. You couldn't have done a better job answering my question! Problem is I like it "spartan" as well.

For those of you with more electric exposure than I, would you say that a -2 with buckers runs in the SG arena or no?



Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: LeftyBlake on December 30, 2012, 09:53:23 AM
Does anyone one what generation the tortoise pickguard was offered? Does anyone know if it's still offered?

(http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://cdn1.gbase.com/usercontent/gear/3114406/p1_u5edvkdyh_so.jpg&sa=X&ei=2Q7gUJzyForhiwLa0oDgDg&ved=0CAkQ8wc4Ng&usg=AFQjCNHlyKVpcyCP5gupDhEHovWjZDLwqg)


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: JOYCEfromNS on December 30, 2012, 06:41:23 PM
Interesting guitar!!! Looks like a bit of a hybrid between gen 5 & 6


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: LeftyBlake on December 30, 2012, 07:47:52 PM
Interesting guitar!!! Looks like a bit of a hybrid between gen 5 & 6

That's what I was thinking. Klusons, new shaped pickguard and perhaps generation 5 knob placement? No doubt the RS-2 has gone through a lot of growing pains before reaching it's current state.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on December 30, 2012, 08:24:58 PM
Here are pics of one I bought off Ebay.  I do not know if it is Gen 3 or 4.  I looks satin white to me but maybe it is TV yellow.

(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1771_zps3a287cd2.jpg)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1772_zpsb1f26466.jpg)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1780_zpsd6c10696.jpg)

mary

Interesting ... an RS-2 with no neck binding (or a dark binding). I think I've seen a couple of these (the single pickup model with tort guard above being another), but most of them have the standard ivoriod binding like the RS-4...


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: Mikeymac on December 30, 2012, 08:30:12 PM

For those of you with more electric exposure than I, would you say that a -2 with buckers runs in the SG arena or no?


I'd say they would be "close" ... just remember the scale length difference, which will give the RS-2 an edge in note clarity, and the SG an edge in note bending/playability (with the same guage strings). I have an SG (shown in the pics above) and it even has Larrivee pickups in it, but I'm getting ready to trade it because I just don't like Gibson's "railroad tie" frets... and I probably won't miss it much because of my RS-2 and RS-4.


Title: Re: RS2 History Lesson
Post by: tulk1 on January 07, 2013, 01:30:33 PM
Here are pics of one I bought off Ebay.  I do not know if it is Gen 3 or 4.  I looks satin white to me but maybe it is TV yellow.

(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1771_zps3a287cd2.jpg)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1772_zpsb1f26466.jpg)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u668/mightygnat/RS-2/bigDSCN1780_zpsd6c10696.jpg)

mary
Put humbuckers on that and that is what my '10 Gen 3 looks like.