Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Other Guitar Makers => Topic started by: Barefoot Rob on October 21, 2009, 02:13:28 PM



Title: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 21, 2009, 02:13:28 PM
On another thread Lee Richard ask about the tone of maple so the reason for this thread.Everyone will have an opinion so speakup.


I play alot of maple guitars my fav is my OM03PA I also have 2 Guilds jumbos a 6 and a 12 string,plus my Gibson L7 archtop.Maple for me adds richness to all the freq. by boosting the mids inside these freq ie: bass gets cleaner and looses what I call the mud,in the mid freq it boost its own presence,in the high you good more cut-threw without adding any shrillness.As for styles of music I have no problem playing any of them,jazz,blues,folk,americona,finger style,rock,open tunings any thing else you can think of.Hope this helps,but lets hear from others.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: strawintogold on October 21, 2009, 02:21:23 PM
Because it's important to me to only post helpful things, i think you need to send me a maple guitar so that I may make an informed and concise contribution.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Roman on October 21, 2009, 02:26:06 PM
Hi there Unclrob!  It's been a while.

I have a Taylor 614ce that is quite wonderful.  It's great plugged in or unplugged.  When I compare it to my other acoustics, I describe it as haveing a "piano" sound vs. woody, or mellow - like mahogany and rosewood respectively.

It's quite loud and evenly balanced . . . I love it!  And when it's plugged in, well, it's hard to beat.  It has opened up nicely over the years too . . . (plus, the sweet smell of that maple is a nice plus).

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g261/mgreek/Taylor614Front1.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g261/mgreek/Taylor614Back1.jpg)


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 21, 2009, 02:29:59 PM
Roman good to hear from you.? isn't 614 from Taylor the basic standard to beat in the Taylor line?


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Roman on October 21, 2009, 06:10:29 PM
isn't 614 from Taylor the basic standard to beat in the Taylor line?

That's pretty subjective . . . I think the 814 (sitka / rosewood) is pretty hard to beat.  Most folks from what I hear asy the 6xx series is the preferred for plugged in . . . less feedback issues.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: es-335 on October 21, 2009, 06:54:57 PM
SJ200 is one of my favourite guitars!!

Very bright and powerful guitar!


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 21, 2009, 07:37:03 PM
As always Roman I'm confussed,isn't the 800 Taylor a dread.Help me here.Yes I do find that the 600's are played mostly plugged in but I have found them to be pleasent acoustically.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Danny on October 21, 2009, 11:22:10 PM
  I really like maple back and sides.  Flamed maple is a favorite of mine.
I liked my Larrivee OO-09FM a lot but let it go when I got my F-III. The maple is bright and crisp sounding and just has a "lively" flavor to it. So very different than rosewood or mahogany.  The F-III with Mahogany and the Italian Spruce tops crosses into that "bright and lively" tone. But Hog with sitka or A hog top are warmer and with the hog top even darker sounding tones.  A rosewood will tend to be richer and full of overtones.
  

 I have a maple custom with a hog top that I'm rebuilding and don't know for sure what to expect from it.
                                   (It will probably turn out to be a ''dual personality")

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/32988/2886256400104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2886256400104334565RtRZGP)

                           This was my 00-09FM Larrivee, a very nice lil git.

(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/491/2630643220104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2630643220104334565ZJwiKc)

                                     My F-III  LS-03 MH/IS is in the middle


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: teh on October 21, 2009, 11:39:49 PM
I played 6 different parlors when I bought my flamed maple and it was the clear choice. This is the cleanest, clearest little guitar I ever played and it sounds really nice tuned down to open C.

Having played both a 12 string and 6 string Larrivee in quilted maple, I would have no qualms about getting one in the future.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Roman on October 21, 2009, 11:46:35 PM
Unclrob,

The x14 (614, 814, etc.) series are the Grand Auditorium size, the closest to the L body that Larravée offers . . . the x12's are the Grand Concert series, smaller and not as deep, the x00 series are the dreads, x15's are their jumbos and their x55's are the 12 strings.  Now Taylor has come out with a bunch more . . . Their GS (Grand Symphony) baritones, 12 ftret, and a new parlor just advertised.

So many guitars . . . so little time!


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: dberch on October 22, 2009, 12:50:42 AM
I had a Gibson J-100 XT Maple that I loved to play.  Sometimes I wish I had kept that one.  I'll see if I can find a pic...

I put a vintage John Greven pickguard on it.  It sounded  huge and woody, but clear and not boomy at all.  loved it!



[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Randy_R on October 22, 2009, 02:30:44 AM
I like maple for the reasons already stated. Crisp and cutting, good mids and trebles.

Danny, That mahogany on maple may turn out to be a good combination. I had a C-09 with maple that had a cedar top, and the cedar softened the trebles just a bit in a good way.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: hadden on October 22, 2009, 02:36:00 AM
I'll be a naysayer here with my limited experience of maple. I've tried a Taylor dread and a Beneteau grand concert style guitar with maple, and I found both of them too plain sounding for my ears. Just wasn't enough interest in the tone for me.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: dermot on October 22, 2009, 02:58:30 AM
two of the best guitars i have had the joy to play were both maple... David Webber's personal guitar, a engelman/maple 12 fret 00, and this Paragon that is currently for sale at Ted's LA Guitar Sales shop;
(http://www.laguitarsales.com/tools/local/imageupload/content/Content2/size2/a925b04b45cc8b2f3f8a4157f2a8f042.jpg)

you can read more about it here;
http://www.laguitarsales.com/pages/3433/Paragon_MJ.htm

At the time Rob had borrowed one of my 12 fret D's for a while so he cold get his head around what a Martin 12 fret D sounds like, and he wanted to hold on to the 12 fretter for a while longer - so he let me try out this beauty for while he played my 12 fret D - it was sooooo good i was really glad to give it back to him....

;-)

d.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: tadol on October 22, 2009, 04:24:48 AM
That one is incredible! Maple with snowflakes - beautiful!

Tad


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Zohn on October 22, 2009, 04:53:58 AM
Roman good to hear from you.? isn't 614 from Taylor the basic standard to beat in the Taylor line?

isn't 614 from Taylor the basic standard to beat in the Taylor line?

That's pretty subjective . . . I think the 814 (sitka / rosewood) is pretty hard to beat.  Most folks from what I hear asy the 6xx series is the preferred for plugged in . . . less feedback issues.

Now that is interesting. The one Taylor I crave for is the 514, but then I'm a hog-freak... I must admit though I won't mind a Doyle Dykes Signature model. That one comes in Maple..


[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: leerichards on October 22, 2009, 08:06:33 AM
Unclrob you are a kind and gracious man.  :cheers Thanks heaps for starting a thread to answer my question, it is really appreciated. It has certainly enabled me to fill a blank in my knowledge of tonewoods. From the pics, maple certainly has great beauty as well. My own philosophy on aesthetics is "less is more" so the Paragon posted by Dermot appeals most to my eye. The RW sound, I know and likewise mahogany so thanks all for your contributions which enable me to imagine how the maple sound fits into the spectrum. :donut :donut :donut :donut Lee


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 22, 2009, 01:10:35 PM
Lee happy to help :thumb


Come on I know more of you have something to say good or bad......its teachin time .....step on up. :guitar


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Danny on October 22, 2009, 01:49:03 PM
   This is a custom ordered Taylor 615ce with and Engleman top. (owned and ordered by my friend Don10 years ago)

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/43582/2106242470104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2106242470104334565TmBGKz)

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/7304/2729216890104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2729216890104334565nstftH)

    I played this, but it had dead Martin SP's on it. Don hates changing strings, when I first played the OM-21 that I got from him the strings were dead and I thought the OM was dull. I also thought this about this 615ce, but I bet it was the old strings. He has 10 or more stringed instruments and this one he would sell, I'd be temped because of the looks alone, but it's too big for me.
    It sure is pretty though. I guess these are "Jumbos" 17'' by 4 5/8'' deep etc., more like a Gibson SJ I think.

  The Gibson maple jumbos were used for percussion as well as a ''cutting" guitar in many country and bluegrass bands way back. They could ''drum'' on the big tops with their hands. No drums were used in those bands back then.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: dermot on October 22, 2009, 04:03:25 PM
If you ever get a chance to listen to any cut from El Mcmeen's album "Amazing Grace"... every track is recorded with a Martin OM, Italian spruce over quilted maple.

Sounds spectacular, but then El's playing so every thing sounds spectacular ;-)

d.



Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: ST on October 22, 2009, 08:41:59 PM
This is my main guitar when playing with others who are using Rosewood or Mahogany backed guitars   - or any time that I need to be really present in the mix.

(http://toonz.ca/Larrivee/LS05/MorganBack01.jpg)

(http://toonz.ca/Larrivee/LS05/MorganTop01.jpg)

(http://toonz.ca/Larrivee/LS05/MorganTop02.jpg)

Hi dermot,
This is what I was playing the other night with my buddy who plays a Gibson J45, and then later with the fellow who has that drop-dead gorgeous C10.

I know that was some time ago now, but if you have some impressions of the contrast in the sounds, that would probably be useful here.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: dermot on October 24, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
Hi dermot,
This is what I was playing the other night with my buddy who plays a Gibson J45, and then later with the fellow who has that drop-dead gorgeous C10.

I know that was some time ago now, but if you have some impressions of the contrast in the sounds, that would probably be useful here.

I just revisited this thread, sure I'd love to be an armchair critic!

Before ST was on, there was duo who obviously gigged regularly.. the only way they could be so tight is constant playing / rehearsing... a great player with a Guild OM, and the other guy had a Taylor.. they sounded good, but the Guild sounded like an electric more than an ampflied acoustic guitar, could have been playing a strat and he would not lost any of the musicality flowing from his hands... the Taylor did sound like there was an acoustic in there somewhere ;-) 

A tough act to follow, glad i wasn't up after them...

So now  ST & his regular gigging partner come on, they have Been playing out for more than a decade together, and it shows in spades, this is the second time i have seen them, and they are lose, fun & spontaneous.. really meaning they don't waste much of a wonderful life on rehearsals, fly without a net, and seeing them pull out of a looming disasters is so much fun... they have fun and it translates to all around

The thing is - when Lawrence started playing his J45 it sounded really gooood, as in Woody Guthrieish jingle-jangle, and then ST's maple Morgan joined the mix, and it was more than "cut through", there was a depth and richness to everything, that it can float above all, dive down low, sting like a bee.. all crystal clear, without seeming to be pushing in the mix at all, you can hear everything played and it's very "musical", very "acoustic"...  sweet!

Then a friend of ST gets on stage he has an older L10, the case looked like it's been dragged behind a car down the Alaska highway twice, the L10 tho is near perfect... when he starts playing i can see why it's in such good shape... he has a strong attack, probably a fairly thick pick on fairly thick strings, but he has control, he's very precise while looking total casual about it..  i think he has done this before, and more than once... that L10 sounded really good on it's own.

He then asked ST to join him, later i was told they used to gig together, but that was more than a decade ago... once again the Morgan floated above without seeming to need to push it's self into the mix, it was just there, clear, and with a depth and sweetness that worked with the L10's  sustain, they never got in each other's way, and that's saying some as this is the first time in years these guys have played together!

I am a maple fan, as noted above i have played two that were memorable... and have heard two more that were stunning, ST's Morgan, and at El Mcmeen's house he played his Italian/maple OM42 a few years ago... now to get back to the point of this thread - I think Bob has a point about hearing nuances of the player more than the instrument with maple....

I'm not in gassing mood these days, my focus is more on playing and i am pretty happy with what i already have, but that maple C19 that went on Ebay for 1K was making my head turn a little bit ;-)

d


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: ST on October 24, 2009, 03:25:20 PM
Thanks Dermot!

Much appreciated.

I was just trying to describe the differences in Maple versus Mahogany and Rosewood to another friend far away. I'll refer him to this. I think you have nailed it.

Thank you!


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: bluesman67 on October 24, 2009, 03:53:02 PM
Maple is very unforgiving, not a good characteristic for a player like myself.  :bgrin:


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 25, 2009, 01:23:34 AM
Yes maple is unforgiving its like Telecasters you have to play it right or it will let everone know, but maple in drop tunings the overtones are orgazmic.I LOVE MAPLE........




And Telecasters


 Jezz I just realized that my Guild bass I'm gigging with is a maple also......


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: bluesman67 on October 25, 2009, 01:45:17 AM
Yes maple is unforgiving its like Telecasters you have to play it right or it will let everone know but in drop tunings the overtones are orgazmic.I LOVE MAPLE........




And Telecasters


 Jezz I just realized that my Guild bass I'm gigging with is a maple also......

LOL.  Now I can understand why I never really warmed up to a Tele but I love a Strat.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 25, 2009, 02:41:08 AM
I really want to say something about  strat's but I just can't and all I can think is they really very forgiving.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: flatlander on October 25, 2009, 10:36:05 AM
Well I've got to admit I have severe prejudice at work here. I decided when I was a teen that I didn't like like maple guitars at all, and I swear, I can't even remember picking one up since?!
After 30+ plus years I suppose I could give them another chance. ya think?


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 25, 2009, 01:55:16 PM
Don't do it,stop right there boy....if you sit down and play a maple guitar you'll want one and after 30 years I'm not sure you can deal with the results.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: flatlander on October 25, 2009, 03:06:36 PM
Don't do it,stop right there boy....if you sit down and play a maple guitar you'll want one and after 30 years I'm not sure you can deal with the results.
Clever Rob. Ok I give in. Ship me one.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: hadden on October 25, 2009, 03:43:17 PM
Well I've got to admit I have severe prejudice at work here. I decided when I was a teen that I didn't like like maple guitars at all, and I swear, I can't even remember picking one up since?!
After 30+ plus years I suppose I could give them another chance. ya think?


Me as well. The worst Taylor I ever played was maple. A real dog. So in my head was "ug, so this is maple then." Not fair, obviously.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: C-10-4-me on October 25, 2009, 04:19:31 PM
I've only played two maple guitars in over 30 years of playing and hated one and loved the other.Go figure.
The one I hated was a Taylor 614-CE that I bought soley for the purpose of playing it in a worship group and plugged in. Acoustically, it was the pits and I couldn't wait to unload that guitar.

The one I loved was some sort of non-dread Martin I played at FQMS in Louisville. That guitar had tone that shocked me,especially when I had already made my mind up tha maple was not for me. Just goes to show you that you can't judge a book by it's cover,or in this case it's back and sides. :tongue:


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: teh on October 25, 2009, 06:08:06 PM
Unclrob's description of a maple guitar in drop tunings is a perfect definition.

I love to tune my parlor down to open C and that's a great sound. In the last 6 months I have played three Quilted Maple Larrivees including (L-09, L-09 12 string and another parlor). I have a quote for an L-09 in maple but I haven't pulled the trigger yet but I will have no reservations once I do.

I haven't checked Taylor pricing lately but my guess is for like kind and quality, it will come in considerably higher than an Larrivee.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Barefoot Rob on October 26, 2009, 01:47:00 AM
First Flatlander  :roll



Second and just an added thing,a long time ago I had the chance to play a Guild D30 that was maple with a pressed arched back the my JF30's that thing had a bass responce that rivaled most rosewoods I played.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: sneaky on October 26, 2009, 04:14:28 AM
I own quite a few old Yamahas from the early `50s to the mid `60s, all made of solid maple...and I love my maple.
These two are first run Yamaha classical types but not yet classicals...they have the thicker rounder necks, the flatter wider necks came a bit later...this is a No. 45 and a No. 85...which has the wider flame on it.

  (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/forsaleIII208.jpg)

a 1950s Yamaha Dynamic #1...these are very loud and deeply voiced for solid, small body maple guitars...love em to bits...I have a bunch more and they`re pretty much the same just diffenert colors.

 (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/redNo1008.jpg)


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: leerichards on October 26, 2009, 05:57:51 AM
Sneaky, that pair of Yammies look beautiful. Are the tops spruce or cedar?  They look like they have classical tuners. Was the "not quite classical" referring to the nut width? How do they play? How do they sound? You are fortunate to have found those.  :thumbsup  Lee.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: sneaky on October 26, 2009, 08:34:45 AM
tops are not cedar, they look like this...

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/suzuki051.jpg)

like I said, the necks on these first run classicals are closer to the Dynamic necks, thicker and rounder than necks seen on classicals today, and even slightly later Yamahas have the wider, flatter necks we know classicals to have nowadays. From what I`ve seen, Yamaha didn`t have their own acoustic factory until 1966, a Mr. Ueda was moved from the motor division to start it up and thats when the first light green lable FG-150 and 180s came out. In the 2008Yamaha acoustic catalog theres a sort of family tree with Mr. E Ferrer named as the gentleman responsible for the first true Yamaha made classicals...the GC-5,7 and 10 models... which they date to 1967 so prior to that evidently Yamaha had it`s acoustics made for them by somebody else...and both Suzuki and/or Tenryu have been named...so on the models pictured above they used the same necks as the Dynamics had. I also have some models that came between those here and the Ferrer made models, and they have classical necks...the Dynamics and first runs classicals don`t have the same shape at all, though all have slot heads. I see lots of various brands over here that share many characteristics of the Yamaha Dynamics so it seems Suzuki was very bust building guitars with lots of brand names as early as the `50s , possibly earlier, hard to say for sure `cause record keeping was shabby at best. 


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: sneaky on October 26, 2009, 08:46:39 AM
this apparently is a label from a Yamaha that predates even the Dynamics, which it seems were born in the early 1950s...`52 is the year thats been sited...so how far back does this one go?...nobody knows for sure and who made it...is unknown.

 (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/ganso_rakutaga-img600x600-124322873.jpg)

as for how the Dynamics...and the maples I posted above...sound, you can hear some models played here by somebody other than myself...don`t know who`s playing them actually...

http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/kyoku/original.html

and heres a link to the museum of Dynamics posted by members of a web site dedicated to them here in Japan, they are listed according to model number and the labels help in determining a ballpark timeframe for when various models were made....

 http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/catalog.html


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Roman on October 26, 2009, 11:50:45 AM
The one I hated was a Taylor 614-CE that I bought soley for the purpose of playing it in a worship group and plugged in. Acoustically, it was the pits and I couldn't wait to unload that guitar.

That's hard to believe . . . I think if you would play one with the tone of mine, you'd certainly have a different oppionion.

I guess there's a bad apple in a bunch every now and then.


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: es-335 on October 27, 2009, 06:11:57 PM
   This is a custom ordered Taylor 615ce with and Engleman top. (owned and ordered by my friend Don10 years ago)

(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/43582/2106242470104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2106242470104334565TmBGKz)

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/7304/2729216890104334565S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2729216890104334565nstftH)


Danny, that is an outstanding guitar!
I know it was up for sale back in the days... is it still up for sale?


Title: Re: Maple B+S what are you thoughts
Post by: Danny on October 27, 2009, 06:20:15 PM
Danny, that is an outstanding guitar!
I know it was up for sale back in the days... is it still up for sale?
  It is for sale Jeff and has barely been used. He custom ordered it 10 years ago and then found a Martin D-42 that he just loves. He also is learning fiddle and plays mandolin. So it just sits in the case. He is pretty laid back so he hasn't got aggressive with trying to sell it.