Hey guys!!
I'm curious to know who had a Larrivee's neck reset, how much it cost, how long it took, and impression/s of the finished job.
Rob, Jim, have you ever done this on a Larrivee?
Thanx.
Zohn
Zohn, I just removed my post from the "-15 & -16 series" thread. Had posted a story about my '08 OM-05 having to have a neck reset, coming to me from Larrivee in a funky condition. I removed it from it's case, strummed it, was in total awe of the sound, checked out the tiger-striping on the neck, then noticed something odd. There was a gap where the neck joins the body, being able to slide a post-it between about 1/4", & with other noticilbe gaps. Wanted that guitar so badly I called Larrivee, getting Wendy on the phone (Greg had a dentist appt.). Told her about the issue, had an RA issued within a week or so, asked her jokingly if I could get a bone nut for my troubles, she just laughing. Sent it out, the neck was removed & reset, and when I got it back & opened the case, it had a bone nut on it also! Sold that one to Jim, a fellow Forum member buying it & loving it, thanking me for taking such good care of it, as I do all of my babies. I deleted the pics before the repair, but I'll post a few of the "new" guitar after I got it back.
Larrivee neck resets are so rare. First one I have heard of?
Jeff :guitar
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Larrivee resets do seem to be rare indeed. The dove tail and overall construction integrity seems to be one of thier high points. I only recall 3 in need of them on here. Bluemans and another who's weren't right from the factory. (one only got a bridge shaving instead of reset) And someone else whom I can't remember who needed it on an older one. My 1980 L-10 is a prime example. No adjustable rod.
Never badly out at all with action and still has as much saddle I think, as the day I got it.
I remember reading something, maybe in Fretboard Journal, about how Larrivee's design minimizes the need for neck resets. I wouldn't dispute flatlander's point about construction integrity either.
Mine is about 15 years old, has a very thin neck, and I know it was played a lot before I got it. I just had some fretwork done and the tech said the neck is just fine. What I've read on this thread is all I've ever seen about Larrivees needing resetting.
I've never seen a Larrivee that needed a neck reset.I've glue a few headstocks,side cracks and I once placed a righty bridge on a lefty cutaway for someone,nothin due to Larrivee.OK once I shaved a bridge that was too tall but that was on a used one.
Quote from: leftync on August 09, 2009, 02:17:34 PM
I remember reading something, maybe in Fretboard Journal, about how Larrivee's design minimizes the need for neck resets.
I read a quote from Jean Larrivee somewhere as well, can't remember the exact quote but basically that provided a Lav is "humidified properly throughout its life, it probably would never need one".
Hey Jeff, how's the tiger striping on that OM's neck? - my word it is stunning! :thumbsup also, it is very odd that that particular guitar would leave the factory with an issue. :arrow
Quote from: leftync on August 09, 2009, 02:17:34 PM
I remember reading something, maybe in Fretboard Journal, about how Larrivee's design minimizes the need for neck resets.
:+1: found that article in the on-line copy of Acoustic Guitar Magazine of April 2008 http://www.acguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=22267
"The L-body with the symmetrical bracing was a really well-balanced guitar," Larrivée says. "It wasn't bass-heavy, it wasn't trebly, it wasn't middy—it was the perfect guitar. I've never attempted any other bracing after that." Tonal considerations aside, Larrivée also claims that his bracing results in a guitar that is more resistant to movement over time, and therefore very rarely needs a neck-reset or other major structural repairs.
Quote from: Zohn on August 10, 2009, 12:34:36 AM
I read a quote from Jean Larrivee somewhere as well, can't remember the exact quote but basically that provided a Lav is "humidified properly throughout its life, it probably would never need one".
Found this quote too from the Larrivee web-site: http://www.larrivee.com/features/acousticBuildTour3.php
The dovetail size that we use is not one that you can go out and purchase a template for at your local Home Depot. The dovetail size perfectly follows the profile of the heel, making more wood from the neck actually connect and sit in the guitar body (more than any other neck joint other than a Spanish heel). Some people will argue against the dovetail neck joint saying "Every guitar will someday need a neck reset, and dovetails are the hardest to remove/reset/reseat" That statement is wrong, every guitar will NOT require a reset. A guitar with a properly fit dovetail neck joint, an adjustable truss rod, and that is kept properly hydrated will likely never require a reset. In the 40 years since this article was written, we have done less than two dozen warranty neck resets - and guess what? The neck resets were mostly on newly finished guitars are were not fit right to begin with (Out of 100,000 guitars - 20 guitars needing some warranty neck work is perfectly reasonable in our opinion).
When I took out the saddle on my L it looks like from the tan line and the bottom that it has never been shaved, so no movement at all in a 5 yr old guitar (I got it used). One of my guitars (non- larrivee) was getting close to reset time after 4 yrs from the shaving I had to do.
My '75 L has had the neck reset but it didn't actually need it. It's just that the neck was off anyway for refinishing. Try telling that to Rick Turner, however. :laughin:
The new "wisdom" is that since every guitar will eventually need the neck reset, it's better to bolt on the neck and make it easier. Goes totally against what Mr. Larrivée is doing with his guitar design. Go figure.
Zohn, that OM-05, as I kick myself again in the a**, went to Jim Holler as part my dealings for the F-III, SD-50, & Baden. Was one awesome guitar. I was contacted by the future buyer, asking me to tell him all I could about it. The only thing I didn't mention, as he was so enthused & I felt it was no longer an issue, was the neck reset. Told him about the bone nut Wendy had them put in. He jumped on it right away & later emailed, thanking me for the opportunity for it to be his now & taking such great care of it. Again, another kick! I was having a RW jones, thus getting the Baden. Now, I can't get enough of HOG, having my L-10 for "tonal sweetness" or "complexity", as people refer to RW sound. An Italian guitar with IS top & walnut body is in my future, built by a Forum member, as soon as he's done with the one he's building for a guitarist/performer friend of his. I'm next on his list & other models are being worked out now. Will concentrate on building only soon, which is where his passion lies. Guess who it is?
If you remember that recent thread about the guy that had issues with his last of a limited run that was sent, still sealed, from Larrivee with problems. I understand these things do happen, though VERY rare with Larrivees, as far as resets. Some things just slip by. I mentioned the striping on the neck to Jim, he telling me that it wasn't that rare. Having seen & played hundreds of Larrivees & never seen a neck like that, I was a little unsure of his answer. As far as what he gave me for it, he pulled out a book, looked @ the going value range, & gave me the highest #. I paid $1400 brand new for that one, a week before the Aug. 1, '08 price increase (Jim gave me $1050!). Came to me from them within 2 weeks, so a quick turnover. Just one of those things you wonder why you do it, GASing for something else. I really wanted a RW F-III from Jim, but he wanted cash only & that ended that conversation!
And my '93 L-10's neck is as perfect as can be. Even with being afraid to take it out, I would anyway, letting others try it also. They had never heard of Larrivee & were blown away by it. Have loved them from the first time I played one, about a year before that. Took a settlement & some sidestepping to buy all of the guitars I did in '93, which was 3 Larrivees. My L-10 cost me $2400 back then with tax & all. Was well worth it! :thumb
Jeff :guitar
And I have found Larrivees over the years to be the most stable guitars I've played, so I'm a believer in all that's been said. As I said, mine was just a rarity, one of those things. They took care of it so well & so fast I really couldn't believe it! :bowdown:
Quote from: BluesMan1 on August 10, 2009, 10:48:06 AM
An Italian guitar with IS top & walnut body is in my future, built by a Forum member, as soon as he's done with the one he's building for a guitarist/performer friend of his. I'm next on his list & other models are being worked out now. Will concentrate on building only soon, which is where his passion lies. Guess who it is?
:angry: No Jeff!!! - you're not going to do this to me are you??? - could it be the big guy with the Adi/hog kit-built dread?
Quote from: BluesMan1 on August 10, 2009, 10:48:06 AM
And my '93 L-10's neck is as perfect as can be. Even with being afraid to take it out, I would anyway, letting others try it also. They had never heard of Larrivee & were blown away by it. Have loved them from the first time I played one, about a year before that. Took a settlement & some sidestepping to buy all of the guitars I did in '93, which was 3 Larrivees. My L-10 cost me $2400 back then with tax & all. Was well worth it! :thumb
Jeff :guitar
And I have found Larrivees over the years to be the most stable guitars I've played, so I'm a believer in all that's been said. As I said, mine was just a rarity, one of those things. They took care of it so well & so fast I really couldn't believe it! :bowdown:
:+1: I was fortunate enough to buy my Lav's first (ok I had a crap Ovation before and an OK Washburn, but they weren't solid wood guits, so they're pretty much out of the equation here). As a result, I have never owned other candidates for neck-resets.
I'm very open minded for bolt-necks for this very reason, in fact my custom OM is being built currently, with an adjustable Doolin - based bolted neck.
I guess it would be the perfect match then - Lavs with doves, and an adjustable custom. :nanadance
No Zohn, this person has an open mind & lives in Italy. Not like the other, overly opinionated, but knowledgeable guy from Tenn. you're thinking of! :humour: The one you're referring to is still deciding if he should shave his braces. Can't wait that long.
Think of a snake? :?
Jeff :guitar
Quote from: BluesMan1 on August 11, 2009, 06:01:51 PM
No Zohn, this perfect has an open mind & lives in Italy. Not like the other, overly opinionated, but knowledgeable guy from Tenn. you're thinking of! :humour: The one you're referring to is still deciding if he should shave his braces. Can't wait that long.
LOL!!! :roll :roll :roll :roll :roll :roll :roll :roll :roll :roll
Quote from: BluesMan1 on August 11, 2009, 06:01:51 PM
Think of a snake? :?
Jeff :guitar
Must be Luka??
oh boy I enjoy your posts.. :winkin:
Yes, my friend, you are correct! But so he doesn't get mad, it's "Luca". Even looks more Italian!
Jeff :guitar
Sheeeze!!There are SO many "fine" variables with "guitar manufacturing/artistic styles",that I am constantly in a state of GAS!
Don't worry,it's well under control.....But when I saw that tiger stripe neck(I never saw that before)I had to take a Pepsid AC(anti acid caplet).
Fotzing around on different web-sites,with the amazingly gorgeous guitars being made today,is "definitely" habit forming.
Tiger necks,tiger pick guards etc,etc....and Zohn has a "Shark-fin pick" :winkin:
What else am I gonna discover?
Quote from: magictwanger on August 12, 2009, 07:42:51 PM
Tiger necks,tiger pick guards etc,etc....and Zohn has a "Shark-fin pick" :winkin:
You don't know Sharkfins? I'm astounded...
http://www.maxmusic.co.za/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SFR
Check out these Morgans' striped necks
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I'm greedily holding on to my last two shark fin picks. Can't find them anymore.
Quote from: magictwanger on August 12, 2009, 07:42:51 PM
Don't worry,it's well under control.....But when I saw that tiger stripe neck(I never saw that before)I had to take a Pepsid AC(anti acid caplet).
Sorry about going Off-Topic but I hate to ever let a chance go by to show off one of my girls. That being said:
My Guild X-170 has very nice stripping on the Maple neck.
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Nice axe, even for a lefty! :humour: I just bought another Buffalo horn pick today for my electrics, giving the other away to a friend as a present. What a difference a pick makes! These are superdense bone. Since the shark fin is basically cartilage, how does it compare in sound, do you think? Any of you shark fin pick grinners have anything like mine? Will last a lifetime, as will my RedBear faux tortoise shell one. Just don't work well on acoustic guitars. Mandolins, electrics, great. Have to find a real, thin, flexible t.s pick, but hat's like pulling teeth here in the US!
Jeff :guitar
Well,I don't want to cause a topic change either,but the Blue Chip Picks have garnished an incredible reputation.There are seven or eight pages of correspondence on UMGF regarding their attributes.Most are RAVES!
Me?I'm thinking about trying out "squid beak".Hard,and with good string attack,and great tone.Never wears out!Only get the "Giant Squid" ones though.Very expensive!!!
Btw,for those not living in the USA,I can sell you any bridge you like.Around here,I sell The Brooklyn Bridge. :winkin:
Evening, This year I bought a 12 string L body (marked l-45 I believe) that I believe dates back to the mid 90's. It had been well played with many small nicks and bumps in the finish. I noted that the action was high past the 10th fret and the angle of the neck to the bridge seemed off. On close inspection the sound board of the upper bout seemed bowed in. My luthier agreed that the neck angle was off and the years of high tension on the strings caused the changes in the soundboard. He did a neck reset which took about 6 weeks and cost $500 (though as usual with him he did some other stuff like replace some frets for free) . It now plays easy and sweet all the way up the neck.
Hey MT, are you able to send a squid beak to the US? And, are they available thin enough for an acoustic? my bone, horn, & fake T.S. are just too thick. Are the squid ones only made as a heavier pick? Would like to know. Thanks.
Jeff :guitar
I had the dreaded 12th fret neck hump usually indicative of a pending neck reset with my Larrivee. The action was too high to control the buzzing that occurred at normal string height.
I notified Larrivee customer service and to make a long story short they took care of the issue. It wasn't resolved the way I wanted but resolved nonetheless.
A fretboard replaning and refret along with slight bridge shaving was the fix. Not the way most techs/luthiers would have done it.
My thinking is that Larrivee addressed the issue with the manufacturing gigs/setups in place. Easier to send it through the mfg process again than to subject it to a lengthy procedure requiring a bit more finesse, different setups/processes etc.
The action on my 000-50 is now fine and she sounds great. As to ramifications with future work if needed, who knows? Two years and no issues.
gtrplayer
Quote from: gtrplayer on August 17, 2009, 08:17:54 AM
I had the dreaded 12th fret neck hump usually indicative of a pending neck reset with my Larrivee. The action was too high to control the buzzing that occurred at normal string height.
It wasn't resolved the way I wanted but resolved nonetheless.
A fretboard replaning and re fret along with slight bridge shaving was the fix. Not the way most techs/luthiers would have done it.
As to ramifications with future work if needed, who knows? Two years and no issues.
gtrplayer
Actually, I have seen several of these issues solved by planing (or sanding down) the fret board, and shaving the bridge as well. This is a quick way to deal with the problem at a much lower cost and you can do a re fret at the same time, but I agree that future issues might present a problem. I guess it depends on just how badly the neck is out of line and how much they have to take off.
unclrob, what are your thoughts on this???
On the other hand if it lasts another 25 years, you can worry about it then. As for me, I'll be 81 at that time, and it might not be a big issue... :nice guitar: :laughin:
I think the question would be how much they had to take off the fingerboard, and off the bridge - If it was a slight buzz, and they only had to take a few thousandths off the fretboard and 1/16th or less off the bridge, that seems like a very reasonable way to deal with it. If they had to sand it down to the point that the binding had a strong appearance of a taper, and they had to take 1/8" or more off the bridge, then I would be concerned.
Tad
Well my answer will probably get me in trouble with someone.....So here goes both feet....I have sanded the bottom of many a bridge in lu of a neck set about 1/32" no more then that.In some case's a simple fret dressing cure's the hump issue.I have done planing of the fingerboard and it is best to do whole board so eveything stays even and refret.It is always a matter of $$$ for everyone.Right now I have a Kent Bonanza 12 string that I shaved the bridge on that the client wanted me to reset the neck on but didn't want to pay the price,he thought it was a $50 job.In the end the bridge,2 neck cracks and one top crack came to $225 and he thought that that was too much.He called around and I was the cheapest.So maybe I should raise my price.
Quote from: docrach1 on August 16, 2009, 03:31:21 PM
I noted that the action was high past the 10th fret and the angle of the neck to the bridge seemed off. On close inspection the sound board of the upper bout seemed bowed in. My luthier agreed that the neck angle was off and the years of high tension on the strings caused the changes in the soundboard. He did a neck reset which took about 6 weeks and cost $500 (though as usual with him he did some other stuff like replace some frets for free) .
:+1: This is the info I'm after - if I didn't know better, I would have been convinced that neck-resets on Larrivee's are being swept under the carpet, or bluntly covered up. Fact is, in today's money, $500 is a lot of money - well at least in Africa it is!
Quote from: unclrob on August 17, 2009, 11:54:15 AM
...I have sanded the bottom of many a bridge in lu of a neck set about 1/32" no more then that.In some case's a simple fret dressing cure's the hump issue.I have done planing of the fingerboard and it is best to do whole board so eveything stays even and refret.It is always a matter of $$$ for everyone.Right now I have a Kent Bonanza 12 string that I shaved the bridge on that the client wanted me to reset the neck on but didn't want to pay the price,he thought it was a $50 job.In the end the bridge,2 neck cracks and one top crack came to $225 and he thought that that was too much.He called around and I was the cheapest.So maybe I should raise my price.
Quote from: jimmy buffett on August 17, 2009, 11:14:05 AM
Actually, I have seen several of these issues solved by planing (or sanding down) the fret board, and shaving the bridge as well. This is a quick way to deal with the problem at a much lower cost and you can do a re fret at the same time, but I agree that future issues might present a problem. I guess it depends on just how badly the neck is out of line and how much they have to take off.
Quote from: gtrplayer on August 17, 2009, 08:17:54 AM
I had the dreaded 12th fret neck hump usually indicative of a pending neck reset with my Larrivee. The action was too high to control the buzzing that occurred at normal string height.
First off - thank y'awl for your posts - makes for interesting debate indeed, and is much appreciated :thumbsup .
Could the "dreaded hump" be indicative of a required re-set, or of a dry guitar? :? It seems that skimming or straightening of the fingerboard and/or shaving of the bridge is a relative way to "make the measuring points meet". The real question is does it affect the neck-angle which surely is the real issue here? :?
Shaving the bridge bottom doesn't change the neck angle itself but does change action.By lowering the bridge even as little as 1/32" does change the take off angle of the strings from the bridge.The lower cost does make this a better option.To do a neck reset on a guitar selling for under $1000 it just isn't worth it.Above that value a neck reset depending on the guitar can both devalue and increase value of the instrument.
Quote from: Zohn on August 17, 2009, 12:38:53 PM
It seems that skimming or straightening of the fingerboard and/or shaving of the bridge is a relative way to "make the measuring points meet". The real question is does it affect the neck-angle which surely is the real issue here? :?
Zohn,
My buddy took his 30 year old "Law Suit" Takamine to a local luthier, and together they sanded down the fret board and did a refret. I can't be specific on the amount of wood they took off of that fret board, but it saved them from having to do a full reset. In the end, the set up was perfect and you could not tell by looking at the guitar that it had ever been touched. In fact, it looked like new. This turned out to be a good solution for an otherwise fine "old" guitar.
If anyone wants to know more about how this project turned out, he's a member of this Forum under the name "swainsong". Just send him a PM, but be prepared to get back a very long and detailed response....
jimmy
Zohn - Isn't it all about "making the measuring points meet"? If it's done at the factory before its sent out, or done after someones played it a few years, what's the difference? I think that what unclrob says really makes sense - At some point, the cost of a reset is not warranted, especially if the problem can be resolved less expensively. The root of alot of these problems seems to be moisture. Usually too little. When the wood dries out, and shrinks, it can be hard to re-introduce moisture, especially a thick piece like the heel block. Once that is "stable" at whatever moisture content it sits at, then to adjust the fretboard and bridge to make the points meet seems not only a good idea, but ultimately a much more stable instrument -
But again - within reason - 1/32 is not bad, but if someone advised taking the bridge down 1/8" or more on a good quality guitar, I would be rather concerned. But on a flea market special, to make it playable for cheap, it is what it is -
Tad
Quote from: gtrplayer on August 17, 2009, 08:17:54 AM
I had the dreaded 12th fret neck hump usually indicative of a pending neck reset with my Larrivee. The action was too high to control the buzzing that occurred at normal string height.
If they set the neck to lower the action then the hump would be worse. Now if it was a dip instead of a hump then it would be a different story.
I want everyone to measure the amount of height they have on the wings of the bridge.If they have an 1/8" or more it would suprize me.Most have a little more then a 1/16".
I look at the wings as more decoration then involved with the tone of the guitar.I have taken one down to just above credit card thickness with great results.
The wings on my OM-03MT are 8/64" (1/8).
If you are interested here's a thread I started on the luthiers forum about bridge wing thickness...
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=21645
Great thread you started Jeremy.Way to much math for me :arrow.I guess thats why I repair and I don't build,just not that smart.As for a noticable tone or volumn responce I've not notice a change,nor have the clients I've done this for.I always felt that the volumn /tone responce came more from the bridge plate then the bridge itself.