Larrivee Guitar Forum

Main Forums => Other Guitar Makers => Topic started by: obe-wan on August 05, 2009, 04:12:09 AM



Title: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: obe-wan on August 05, 2009, 04:12:09 AM
Gday folks,

Ive been looking around lately as some of you will know for my next guitar, and as usual its come down to a Martin or another Larrivee. (Or maybe a Telecaster :wacko:)

Ive played quiet a few -15 and -16 martins, a particular 12 string really caught my attention, a J12-16GT. I played it right along side a Larrivee L03-12E, and Ive gotta say it sounded warmer, bigger and deeper than the larry. The larry was nice, it just didnt have the richness. My one concern is this. the neck joint of these is a MT, bolt design. Not as strong as a traditional dovetail joint, which I think could be a concern down the road considering the amount of tension on a 12 string. Ive also heard of -15 needing neck resets after 4-5 years. Anyone got any info they can share?

Theres also a very nice sounding 000-16GT in the shop just 5mins from my house. Im very tempted!

Cheers, Scott.





Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: prof_stack on August 05, 2009, 05:12:22 AM
I don't believe the MT is a bolt on design.  From what I remember at a Martin clinic, there is a bolt used to hold the neck and body while the MT fit is made.  The bolt is superfulous and usually left in place, or something like that.  Others can chime in about now.

I think the Taylor NT design is better suited for quick fixes.

But I've heard some of the top small builders do not use the traditional dovetail joint.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Barefoot Rob on August 05, 2009, 01:27:41 PM
Martin uses a tenon joint with glue and wood screw's.Taylors uses a nut and bolt system and does not use glue though they do glue down the fingerboard extention to the top.I can remember which company it is but one of the high end makers uses a wood screw thru the tenon joint and allen screws to secure the fingerboard extention.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Queequeg on August 05, 2009, 01:38:16 PM
I've had my 000-15s for 5 years now and it definitely is not any where near ready for a neck reset.
The wonderful thing about an m-t joint or a bolt-on, is that a  neck reset is far easier [read: less costly] than a dovetail joint.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Brodie001 on August 05, 2009, 01:47:24 PM
CF Martin is not a bunch of dummies.  They know how to make a guitar and how to run a business.  The Martin warranty covers neck resets.  They wouldn't be using the MT design is they were having to de resets every 4-5 years.

I would have no fears about buying a 15 or 16 series Martin b/c of the neck joint.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Pilgrim on August 05, 2009, 02:02:30 PM
I don't believe the need for a neck re-set is dependent on the method used to attach the neck.  Rather, it is dependent on the movement of the body and/or top over time.  Structurally, neck attachment does not require a dovetail.  Of course there are those who claim the dovetail is sonically superior.  Several makers of fine instruments rely on various bolt arrangements to attach their necks (Taylor, Collings, Bourgeois, and others) and in some cases use no glue, making a neck reset a minor task.



Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Queequeg on August 05, 2009, 02:03:02 PM
Here's a good link with images to the neck reset on a 000-15s. (http://fingerlakesguitarrepair.com/pages/repair-descriptions/neck/neck-reset/martin-000-15s-neck-reset.php)


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Danny on August 05, 2009, 02:33:51 PM
Here's a good link with images to the neck reset on a 000-15s. (http://fingerlakesguitarrepair.com/pages/repair-descriptions/neck/neck-reset/martin-000-15s-neck-reset.php)

  Thanks for the link Mark. It has a very good description with pictures. I am book marking that one for future reference.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Pilgrim on August 05, 2009, 03:35:00 PM
Frank Ford makes a few comments on neck joints here (http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag134/QandA134.html).


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: ffinke on August 05, 2009, 04:21:30 PM
Frank Ford makes a few comments on neck joints here (http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag134/QandA134.html).

I've owned a Taylor and now own a Collings and, of course, a Larrivee. After reading Frank's comments I can't believe that ANY shop would still be using a dovetail joint. The instrument, after all, is alive and will move. Stamp out dovetails forever!!!

 :humour:

f


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: bluesman67 on August 05, 2009, 05:04:28 PM
Mix it up Scott, go for the Martin if you like the tone better.  Don't give any worry to the neck joint.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Queequeg on August 05, 2009, 05:14:00 PM
Frank Ford is a terrific resource. Many of us visit his site frequently at www.frets.com\Big Index Page (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/pagelist.html)


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: dave42 on August 06, 2009, 02:37:18 AM
My oldest Martin is the one I use to gig with. It's a 1997 D-16TR with w M/T neck. No neck set problems.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: obe-wan on August 06, 2009, 03:58:46 AM
Thanks for the info, opinions and links guys. im pretty comfortable as far as the neck joint now. As Bluesman said, if it has good tone, its a good guitar.  :+1:

Theres gonna be some new pics soon....of something......

Cheers, Scott.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: obe-wan on August 08, 2009, 05:19:53 AM
Theres gonna be some new pics soon....of something......


.......It'll be a Martin OM-21.  :beer


Cheers, Scott.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Danny on August 08, 2009, 03:18:09 PM

.......It'll be a Martin OM-21.  :beer


Cheers, Scott.
  Good on ya Scott.  (did I say that right?)


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: obe-wan on August 09, 2009, 09:54:09 AM
  Good on ya Scott.  (did I say that right?)

In perfect Austray-in.  :cheers

Thank for the info Danny, I actually ended up finding another one that had better tone. Interestingly the one with the better tone was the one with the plainer wood. The grain isnt as straight or as highly figured. But it definately has 'The Tone". ......did I mention it has tone?


Cheers, Scott.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Danny on August 09, 2009, 12:58:35 PM
In perfect Austray-in.  :cheers

Thank for the info Danny, I actually ended up finding another one that had better tone. Interestingly the one with the better tone was the one with the plainer wood. The grain isnt as straight or as highly figured. But it definately has 'The Tone". ......did I mention it has tone?


Cheers, Scott.
   Gotta have some pics now.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: BluesMan1 on August 09, 2009, 05:05:10 PM
   The new owner (soon to be) of my SD-50 lives in PA & apparently has some inside knowledge of Martin neck resets. Said there were so many done that it was baffling, esp. with their strict Q/C dept.. Have seen lots of Martin necks on Ebay, "B" stock ones that Martin sold due to minor cosmetic flaws. Was really surprised to hear that, having the reputation they do. Anyone know about this issue?
     Jeff   :guitar


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: obe-wan on August 10, 2009, 05:51:04 AM
  Gotta have some pics now.


It'll be a little while Danny. After consulting "The Guide To Keeping The Little Lady Happy" it has been put on Lay-buy.
Family first, the rest for guitars ! :thumbsup

Cheers, Scott.


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Zohn on August 11, 2009, 04:53:54 PM
I can remember which company it is but one of the high end makers uses a wood screw thru the tenon joint and allen screws to secure the fingerboard extention.
Were you perhaps thinking of Bourgeois Rob? Dana uses screws for the finger board extension.



[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Roman on August 11, 2009, 07:11:54 PM
Taylors uses a nut and bolt system and does not use glue though they do glue down the fingerboard extention to the top.

Taylor does not glue down the fingerboard extension . . .


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: petevee on October 17, 2009, 01:19:50 AM
I passed on a used J12-15 once and am still kicking myself  :crying:


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: Bltprf502 on October 17, 2009, 02:56:38 AM
I repeat.... There is nothing wrong with a bolt on neck.  :bgrin:


Title: Re: -15 and -16 series Martins, bolt on neck?
Post by: obe-wan on October 17, 2009, 09:19:25 AM
Wow. I post a thread about being a thread killer and all my old threads start coming back to life! Zombie threads! Arggggh !!! :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:


Cheers, Scott.