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Main Forums => Other Guitar Makers => Topic started by: jcbuggs on June 11, 2007, 07:59:38 PM



Title: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: jcbuggs on June 11, 2007, 07:59:38 PM
Hello,

I am thinking about getting an inexpensive dread and was wondering if the old Yamaha Red Label guitars from the early seventies are all they are "cracked up to be." (Gee, I wonder how that phrase got started?) They seem to have a good reputation and are plentiful on ebay at reasonable prices. Can anyone share their experience? Are they worth it? What is so good about their sound?

I know some red label models, the ones that say "Nippon Gakki" were made in Japan and others were made in China. Can anyone comment on their differences.

Thanks!

Joe


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ducktrapper on June 11, 2007, 08:41:05 PM
The two FG180s I've owned have been lovely guitars. The one I have now has had a neck reset and newer Grover tuners. It's my favourite beater. While Yamaha has made and continues to make many nice guitars, the red label Nippon Gakkis are just special. Can everyone be wrong about them?
I guess I should add that there are probably some dogs out there as well. Caveat emptor.   


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: jimmyd on June 11, 2007, 10:49:18 PM
The ones I've played have been pretty good sounding. Most have a pretty chunky neck which you may or may not like. I do.  I'm not sure if they are worth the prices they now fetch for my dollar especially given the huge number of decent playing and sounding inexpensive guitars flooding the market today. Problem is that the same model with a similar serial number may have completly different neck joint construction. Some can be reset just as easy as a Martin. Others can be a nightmare repair with epoxied dowels, etc, I don't know of anyone who can say with certainty how an individual Yamaha was built in that era. Could be that I just haven't done enough research on them.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: fd943 on June 12, 2007, 12:06:49 AM
I don't know about the red label, but I have a '77 model FG-345 that is one of my favorite guitars.The binding is yellowed, and there are several really nice dings and dents on it[even a small crack on the top] but I love it. I have taken it out several times to small jam sessions, and it has always been a big hit. I like the neck profile, did'nt give alot for it, so I don't have to stess out if someone wants to play it, and I really  like the way it sounds. Has a really warm, bassy sound, with great ringing trebles. Alot of nice overtones.  The one thing that I hear over and over again from players and non-players is: "I did'nt know Yamaha made such a nice sounding guitar"  I think if you gave them a chance, you will be pleasantly suprised at what you hear, like alot of us have been. It may never replace the big brand names, but it does'nt have to apologize to them either!


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on June 12, 2007, 06:29:38 AM
speaking strictly for myself I much prefer the Dynamics...pre-date the red labels and all solid wood. Designed for use with either steels or nylons but the bridge is not intonated and personally I prefer them with nylons, I think they sound better and I tune em down half a step. Remarkably deep sounding for small bodied maple guitars. Different models have different necks...made before CNC machines, and the three #40s I have are heavier than the rest of the models I own from the series. Even some of the same models have a slightly different feel to the neck...and they are chunky...if you don`t like chunky necks the Dynamics are not for you. I bet they don`t cost more than the red labels do on e-bay nowadays and one reason is perhaps they are for the most part, unknown but theres a small but nearly fanatical Dynamic following in Japan with one web site I go to to ask for help and info. From what I`ve read, Yamaha began experimenting with plywood to combat a split top problem they were having with Dynamics that were exported and that led to the S sries Dynamics, then the light green labels then the red lables...among other labels that fit in there somewhere, like the black ones for example. Chances are the label will say where a Yamaha was made. The oldest Dynamic I have is from the early 50s and when the plywoods started hitting the market in Japan, Dynamic production ended...so early 50s to mid 60s is the general concensus among Japanese players. I`m up to somewhere around 25 Dynamics now...excluding the 60s classicals I have, just got a second all solid Palisander No. 150...top end at the time.
Gushing over.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: fd943 on June 12, 2007, 01:51:34 PM
Oh, and BTW, guess I should jump in here an start posting until I do the mandatory...... DOUNUTS!!!!!!!!!..... :donut :donut :donut2 :donut2 :coffee


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: Calvin on June 12, 2007, 07:44:32 PM
I really like the LL/LS/LJ series (Chronos series, or the Lotus series if you are in Europe).  LL/LS/LJ6 series are great guitars, they are significantly more meticulous made than the FG/FS and cost not that much more, and they are worth every penny.  If you are willing to pay about 2 hundred more the LL/LS/LJ16 are just as good as any Larrivee (bit more strum friendly than Larrivees), and can be had for what a ba had for less than a basic Larrivee 03 cost.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: fd943 on June 13, 2007, 09:32:20 PM
Hey Calvin, Are the L series thinner bodied than FG series?


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: flagstaffcharlie on June 14, 2007, 03:21:58 PM
What exactly does the red label stand for? My newer...circa '03 or '04...FG730S has a red label. Some of the even less expensive FGs do not.

 :coffee :coffee :coffee

I've got to lay off the donuts myself.  :tongue:

Peace,
Chuck


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: Denis on June 14, 2007, 06:01:29 PM
What exactly does the red label stand for? My newer...circa '03 or '04...FG730S has a red label. Some of the even less expensive FGs do not.

 :coffee :coffee :coffee

I've got to lay off the donuts myself.  :tongue:

Peace,
Chuck

Back in the early 70's, Yamaha was using these red paper labels. 

(http://members.aol.com/alliedstuff/YAM-FG150-2.JPG)

When someone refers to a Red Label Yamaha, they are referring to Yamahas built during this period as they were particularly good for a cheap all laminate guitar.  They are going for big $, relatively speaking, on Ebay these days. 


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ducktrapper on June 14, 2007, 09:43:38 PM
Actually the guitar pictured, although the label is red, is NOT one of the famous red labels that are referred to as  "red labels". The red label must read Yamaha Guitar then under that FGXXX and under that the magic words Nippon Gakki. Made in Japan between circa 1969-71. Accept no substitutes. 


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: flagstaffcharlie on June 14, 2007, 09:50:51 PM
Hey Ducktrapper,

Thanks for the info. I'll probably never own one, but that is good to know. Is Nippon Gakki the builder - or the builder in charge of those instruments?

BTW you seem to be visiting at least as many forums as me.  :cheers

Peace,
Chuck


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ducktrapper on June 14, 2007, 10:48:09 PM
I've seen it variously tranlated as Manufactured in Japan or that Yamaha and Nippon Gakki are the same company. If it doesn't say it, it was probably made in Taiwan. Mine also says Made in Japan on the back of the head stock but it's really faint now.   


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: jcbuggs on June 15, 2007, 12:56:05 AM
Duck,

Yes!,  those are the guitars I asked about. The red  "Nippon Gakki" label.  I once heard that Nippon Gakki roughly translated means Japanese Guitar. I have no idea, but I think we have some members from Japan. Maybe someone can translate...

Joe


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: Calvin on June 15, 2007, 07:27:04 AM
I dont believe the LL's are thinner.  But the LL is different in shape from the FG.  The LL, although a dread, has a slender-er upper bout, making it more in-line with the likes of Larrivee L-body or the Taylor-Grand Symphony.  It's very very heavily built, reminiscent of the Guild D55.  As such, the volume suffers slightly - I stress slightly, but sustain is increased greatly as a compensation.  The newer LL has non-scalloped bracings.  When compared to my L09FM, the LL has significantly more bass nevertheless; dreads will be dreads.

The LL06's are great great guitars that will last 100 years of heaving playing.  But the best deals are the LL16's.  The 26/36 are too expensive because they are made in japan instead of the Taiwan (06/16).  I would say the LL-16 is easily on par with a Larrivee L09, while the 09 is lighter and more finger style friendly, the LL is better all-around-er if you plan to strum more.  I love it as it is (came with perfect setup, but I would still play one before I decide, I have seen a few with really bad actions).

Mine is in the shop right now getting a new bone nut and saddle (as opposed to the cheap plastic nut/saddle the stock guitar came with  :mad:) and I will put some better strings on.  I think It will be great when I get it back tomorrow.  I'll let you know.  Just remember, even the LL06 is leaps and bounds better than the new FG's, and the newer 7xx FG's are no slouches.  Yes the LJ and LS are just as cool.

The red labels are great guitars, no argument there, but there is also a vintage hype around them for certain.  At one point the FG150 (equivalent to todays FS720S) were going for 500+ US on ebay.  500 dollars is just not a good price, red label or not.  Unless it's the one that belonged to your grandfather that died in the war to save the country.

Remember, the red labels (describing the period specific japan yamahas, not just label color) are great guitars.  But for the money they are asking for these days, you can get a BETTER GUITAR.  Yes, there are such thing as a better guitar.  i.e. a Walden guitar is better than a Estaban guitar.  A Larrivee guitar is better than a walden guitar.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ducktrapper on June 15, 2007, 11:40:02 AM
I paid $200.00 for my present FG180. EBay buy. It has had a neck reset and good Grover tuners added. A few more bucks for a bone saddle and a pro set up and it's a real player. I got a good deal because it is close to Willie Nelson's Trigger in the beat up department. No hole but someone was getting there. Only two sets of initials carved in her. I usually offer anyone who plays it, if they can find a new place it can be scratched to go ahead. Don't let the ugly fool you though. You should see what it came in! Hand built wooden case. Folk art of the highest order. 


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: Jeff on June 15, 2007, 05:55:35 PM
  I once heard that Nippon Gakki roughly translated means Japanese Guitar.
Joe

Joe,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the literal translation is more like Japan Musical Instrument.  There's really no Japanese word for guitar.   But, as you'd expect, there are plenty of words for traditional Japanese stringed intruments--shaminsen, for instance.  So for "guitar" they use a word written in katakana, a phonetic alphabet that is really just symbols for sounds and is used primarily for foreign words that have no equivalent in the Japanese pictographic alphabet (called kanji and actually based upon Chinese characters).  Anyway, "guitar" comes out as "gitaa."  Another example is ''baiorin."  Say it aloud, and it becomes pretty obvious what that is. 

Probably way more than you wanted to know.

Jeff


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: stuco on June 15, 2007, 06:01:41 PM
 :ph34r:

The one I played was really nice, sounded like on level with a nice yairi.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: fd943 on June 16, 2007, 03:28:28 PM
Hey Calvin, thanks for the reply. I am a big yamaha fan, and have been looking at some of the L series.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: drathbun on June 17, 2007, 04:54:22 PM
My 1968 FG-150 is a Nippon Gakki Red Label. I am resetting the neck myself the second week of July. I'll photo document the process. I replaced the tuners with Pings, but will probably put Grovers on it like Duck. I have a Dean Markley Tahoe pickup installed and it is a great beater.

My first new acoustic guitar was a 1970 Yamaha FG-140 Red Label. I traded it for a 1977 Gibson Hummingbird in 1977 for the guitar plus $700. What a mistake! The Gibson sucked and I missed the Yammie. Bought this FG150 on eBay for $80US four years ago. My wife calls it "the hippie guitar".

Country Joe played one identical to this one at Woodstock (with a string as a strap).

http://www.countryjoe.com/hireswoodstock.jpg

The above image is very hires...




Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: motskoman on July 05, 2007, 03:06:49 PM
My first decent steel string was a new red label 1968 Yamaha FG-140. Really nice guitar for $99. Only problem was that my friend had a stellar 1964 D-28. After hearing his everything else sounded one dimensional. Traded it for a lousy bag of weed when I moved out of my dorm. What was i thinking?


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: fd943 on July 05, 2007, 06:46:43 PM
You were't........that why you get high, right?  :cheers


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: motskoman on July 05, 2007, 09:58:26 PM
You were't........that why you get high, right?  :cheers


Probably. :SHK>


Title: Red Label Advocacy Society
Post by: ibisimon on July 06, 2007, 11:34:08 AM
 :donut :donut2 :coffee :coffee New guy. You eat the donuts, I just lost 50 pounds!

On the Acoustic Guitar Forum I go by Yamaha Junkie. I changed the name for here to protect the innocent. Plywood to me implies fillers. Yamaha was not attempting cheap, they were attempting a break through in strength. IMO they did that with many models. In the 60's Yamaha was having the same problem many manufacturers were having. Tops splitting. They started slicing the tops into 2 layers and regluingthe split back together with only a slight turn in the grain. The Yamaha lamination process was for strength, not economy. Any of the FG 240's and below number wise are pretty basic models. I would spend $200 on an FG180 before pondering anything else in the price range. The Holy Grail is the FG300. Brazilian Rosewood (Laminated) My guitar teacher, who's opinion on Acoustics I worship, wants my FG300 B A D!
I avoid Yamahas with Nato necks. Nato is a furniture grade Mahogany that I feel was the downfall of the great Yamahas.
I have owned a few "Yamadogs" No matter how nice the Natos look they implicate the rest of the guitar as gone cheap. Here is a valuable link to help you disect what the various models are made of. Note the materials are laminates unless marked "solid"
   http://www.yamaha.com/apps/guitararchives/guitarchive2.asp

I have found the old Yamahas hold tune fantastic
Here is my current Possie;
FG 300 - Fantastic sound, cool adjustable bridge. The pickguards hate modern glues. If you get one with a loose pickguard (most are) DO NOT USE anything stronger than Titebond on it to reatatch. Otherwise it will curl and mutate like a dying leaf My pickguard is toast. Victim of a knowitall Luthier (insert anger). I love my beat up 300 anyway
FG350W It's a Taiwan version (Tan label) of the 300. The neck needs attention from time to time. Great sound.
LA18 Wow Japan made in the 80's. Part of the handbuilt series. Incredible tuners. These are so underpriced for what they are in quality and sound. Read about the LA series at Yamaha's web site. They made some groundbreaking moves with the series.
N500 Looks like/ Sounds like an old Gibson. They were Japan market only. The tuners are Jade colored. One of the prettiest, but simple guitars they ever made. Great deep tones. I need to get the strings lowered on it.
Still on my list to aquire is a LA28 and a L53. So, if you find one of those, you can't have it, mine.

 


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 06, 2007, 02:57:33 PM
a few pics of some of my old Yamaha Dynamics you know, in case somebody missed them the first 14 times I posted them. Guys at a Japanese site say my Dynamic #1 with a 4 digit serial dates to the early 50s while most with the white and red labels are from the early to mid 60s. Seems the light green labels came mid 60s and the Dynamics ended. The Dynamics are all solid wood and beautiful little guitars...won`t post pics of all 20 plus I own though.
Beautiful flame maple on the back of some of them. Others were stained dark brown so the flame can`t be seen but the #40s I have all have exquisite maple.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/shbyx585-img600x399-1168335096546c.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/kanagawa5040-img600x450-1167380378p.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/450x600-2006110400007.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/reddy066.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 06, 2007, 03:03:55 PM
This is my No. 45 from the first run of classicals...early/mid 60s...but they don`t have the wide flat necks that classicals now have...the necks on these is much rounder and as gorgeous as the Dynamics.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/newyears2007070.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/newyears2007072.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/newyears2007071.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: Blue in VT on July 06, 2007, 03:57:30 PM
Very intersting thread...can someone point me toward a referece that explains the various sizes ans shapes of these yamahas?  \
\
thanks

Blue


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: drathbun on July 06, 2007, 04:14:21 PM
I am starting a two-week luthier/guitar repair/setup course on Monday. My first project is to do a neck reset, refret, new bone saddle and nut on my 1968 Yamaha FG150. I will be doing a photojournal of the process.

Here is the old beater. I can't wait to play it after the reset!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/drathbun/Guitars%20and%20Gear/tahoe.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ibisimon on July 06, 2007, 07:53:37 PM
I am starting a two-week luthier/guitar repair/setup course on Monday. My first project is to do a neck reset, refret, new bone saddle and nut on my 1968 Yamaha FG150. I will be doing a photojournal of the process.

Here is the old beater. I can't wait to play it after the reset!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/drathbun/Guitars%20and%20Gear/tahoe.jpg)

I want that class!


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ibisimon on July 06, 2007, 11:17:21 PM
This is my No. 45 from the first run of classicals...early/mid 60s...but they don`t have the wide flat necks that classicals now have...the necks on these is much rounder and as gorgeous as the Dynamics.

Hey you have too many! Leads on learning about sub 69' Yamahas is appriciated. And don't forget me when space gets tight.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 06, 2007, 11:59:42 PM
the only site on old Yamahas I know of is in Japanese.  Heres an audio link to somebody playing a few Dynamics...

 http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/kyoku/original.html

a link to their museum and a good place to view the changes the Dynamic labels went through...

http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/catalog.html

and finally I get a lot from the Japan Vintage series of books with two dedicated to acoustics...I mean...my wife translates stuff that I think looks important. A member here chatted with me about a couple that he has seen on e-bay so they are around overseas and my books say they exported the 30, 50 and 70 models...and those had some split top problems which led to experimenting with laminates and by the mid 60s they were ready for production with two light green lable models...but prior to those came the S series Dynamics...which do not say Dynamic on the headstock, only on the label and came in two models...S-50 and S-70...I have one of each but they don`t sound as good to me as the all solids. Thing with the Dynamics is...they were pre CNC so the necks on all of em feel slightly different and my three  #40s are for some reason heavier than the rest of the Dynamics...bracing maybe? They number of guys at the Japnese site may be small but growing and are almost fanatical in their hunt for old Yamahas. Another interesting note on the Dynamics is...they were designed with steel posts to accept steel or nylon strings, I have seen pics of the Dynamics strings Yamaha made for the guitars but have not seen them in oerson, and they`d more than likely be rusted out by now but I would like to know what gauge they were. I tried some steels on the first couple that I bought but find they sound a lot better with nylons, and tuning down half a step really brings out the bass... though the audio clips will show, they sound pretty darn good in standard tunung too.
I recently picked up three old Yairis too


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 07, 2007, 12:04:52 AM
I am starting a two-week luthier/guitar repair/setup course on Monday. My first project is to do a neck reset, refret, new bone saddle and nut on my 1968 Yamaha FG150. I will be doing a photojournal of the process.

Here is the old beater. I can't wait to play it after the reset!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/drathbun/Guitars%20and%20Gear/tahoe.jpg)

I really love the way that looks...naturally reliced. Couple of my old Yamahas are pretty beat up too but they sound and play great...plus putting the inevitable dings into them is so much less painful with a pre-dinged guitar.  :nana_guitar


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ibisimon on July 07, 2007, 01:25:02 PM
THANKS! I know where I'll be nosing for a while. I'll post photo's of my Yamaha's when I figure it out!


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ducktrapper on July 07, 2007, 01:45:44 PM
My old 180 makes that look pristine. I usually tell people, that if they can find a new place to scratch it, go ahead! Looks like Willie might have owned it for a while. 


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: drathbun on July 07, 2007, 03:45:18 PM
My old 180 makes that look pristine. I usually tell people, that if they can find a new place to scratch it, go ahead! Looks like Willie might have owned it for a while. 

My wife calls it "the hippy guitar". :) I was thinking of selling it a while ago and she wouldn't have any part of it. She says she loves that guitar because it has so much history in it. I wanted to part with it because it is so difficult to play now with the high action. But once I have the neck reset, it should play beautifully. I'm going to do a refret while I'm at it but not going to level the fretboard if I can help it. Those finger divots are part of the "history".


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 09, 2007, 11:34:17 AM
ibison...been meaning to ask you about the string break angle at the saddle of your Yamaha...my 170 has a real low break, almost flat,  and I`ve been watching a lot of em on the Jpanese web and most if not all  the old ones seem to have the same thing. I tried to mevove the saddle to replace it but...feels ike it may have been glued in there and I don`t want to force it...so it doesn`t get played much, but I really like it and want to play it.
Howz yourn?


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: JohnM2001 on July 09, 2007, 06:10:08 PM
Just curious, re the little pearl dot on the Dynamic bridge, why is that there, and what does it cover up?   I once had an old beater (brand unknown) that had a dot like that, when the bridge eventually lifted, it seemed like there was some type of screw under that pearl dot, since the bridge would not come off, and the loose bridge pivoted around that dot when moved.  So, is it the same thing with the Dynamics, a screw under that dot, and why?
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/shbyx585-img600x399-1168335096546c.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: C-10-4-me on July 09, 2007, 10:39:50 PM
So then not all Red Labels are solid tops,is that correct? Does Yamaha say "solid top" anywhere on the label?

Ron


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 10, 2007, 02:08:51 AM
I think an S after the model number indicates a solid top.
I always thought the dot on the Dynamic was decorative...it`s the same size as the dots on the neck and ties in nicely with those in my opinion... I`ve never heard of there being a screw under it nor are there any pics in my books of a screw there. The classicals from that same time do not have the dot, and I`ve seen other makers that had two dots spaced out on the bridge. I suppose I could ask the guys at the Dynamic webb site what they think, I`ll do that tonight. Sorry but I don`t want to pop one of the dots out to check, all my Dynamics have the dot, none have fallen out I`ve not yet seen any pics on the web of that.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 10, 2007, 02:35:28 AM
John...heres the pics of the Dynamic bracing that I mentioned. The guys at the Dynamic site say that Mr. ??...forget his name... who developed the Dynamics at Yamaha had the bracing patented...may be, never looked into it. There are pics in my books of the Dynamic string packages that Yamaha made specifically for the series...and evidently they were designed for steel or nylon which is why they had steel posts.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/DGNO40brace1.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/ayumusique-img600x450-1168325056suz.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: drathbun on July 10, 2007, 03:40:46 AM
I just started my guitar tech course. I've started a neck reset on my '68 Yamaha FG150 Red Label. If you're interested, I'm documenting it in photos here:

http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=17116.msg154314#msg154314


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ibisimon on July 11, 2007, 04:18:07 AM
ibison...been meaning to ask you about the string break angle at the saddle of your Yamaha...my 170 has a real low break, almost flat,  and I`ve been watching a lot of em on the Jpanese web and most if not all  the old ones seem to have the same thing. I tried to mevove the saddle to replace it but...feels ike it may have been glued in there and I don`t want to force it...so it doesn`t get played much, but I really like it and want to play it.
Howz yourn?
I've never tried to remove a saddle.  I had a real flat angle on a 230 12 string. It was bowing bad. Others? Show me an angle, I'll snap the pix. Is there a Dynamic group?


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 11, 2007, 01:41:43 PM
I've never tried to remove a saddle.  I had a real flat angle on a 230 12 string. It was bowing bad. Others? Show me an angle, I'll snap the pix. Is there a Dynamic group?

So, I`m guessing when you say a flat angle you mean no break at the saddle...thats what I mean too. But...I`m not sure what the rest means...what do you mean by Dynamic group? Are you asking me to take a pic of my FG-170 so you can compare?... do you have any other acoustics you can compare the Yamaha with? On all my other acoustics, the saddles just slide or lift out when the strings are removed...can`t do that with the 170...feels stuck and due to it`s age I`m afraid it or the wood of the bridge may be brittle and break.
sorry but I wanna make sure I understand what you`re saying.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: guitarforlife on July 11, 2007, 10:55:53 PM
a picture of a nippon gakki fg-160 and fg-180 i used to own and sold them both. regret selling the 180, it was a real gem but i needed the money. i bought and sold a bunch of old yamaha's a few years ago when you could still get them at a reasonable price and resell, but now the word seems to be out.(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/martinktaylor/robbie1685.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 12, 2007, 11:18:02 AM
I've never tried to remove a saddle.  I had a real flat angle on a 230 12 string. It was bowing bad. Others? Show me an angle, I'll snap the pix. Is there a Dynamic group?

heres a link to a Yamaha on Yahoo Japan...not mine but the saddle break angle looks to be about where mine is on the 170. I realize the saddle is broken in the pic but I`m referring to the part that is not broken...scroll down a bit to see.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/97536876


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: jo3shb on July 12, 2007, 01:24:51 PM
In the Spring of 1969 I bought my FG-300 for $200.00 including hard case in Chicago. It's my son's guitar now as I passed it on to him in 1999. The pick guard came off as is, which I understand is fairly common on this guitar. It had a deep, loud and pretty balanced tone. It currently needs to be restored, new frets, neck, and impossible to find adjustable bridge and saddle.

I now have a Larrivee L-05-12 and a Martin HD-28. I haven't played the Yamaha since I my son has had it. By the way, during this period of late 1960's early 70's both Yamaha and Takemine, where doing copycat guitars, with Yamaha copying Gibsons, and Takemine copying Martins. There was one Takemine model that actually made Martin pretty nervous, as it was that good and bettter than half their price. The FG-300 copied the Gibson Hummingbird.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: ibisimon on July 12, 2007, 01:28:13 PM
Hi Sneaky,
 I have been offered a Dynamic. All there but well used. for $250 shipped. How does that price sound in the big scheme of things?


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 12, 2007, 02:17:54 PM
Hi Sneaky,
 I have been offered a Dynamic. All there but well used. for $250 shipped. How does that price sound in the big scheme of things?

find out the model number on the lable...and check the color of the label...pic would be great. For a rarer model that might be a reasonable price...for a common model well...I`ve paid as little as $20.oo for some that were well used. Most I paid for a #20 in near mint condition was $150.oo. Yamaha exported only a few models...#15, 30, 50 and 70... but the internet has changed everything, might be a domestic model. One way to tell is...my books mention that the Yamaha logo is arched on the exports while it is straight across the headstock on domestics. Make sure it actually says Dynamic on the headstock and not only on the label...the latter models were Yamahas first laminates.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 13, 2007, 02:45:46 PM
Just curious, re the little pearl dot on the Dynamic bridge, why is that there, and what does it cover up?   I once had an old beater (brand unknown) that had a dot like that, when the bridge eventually lifted, it seemed like there was some type of screw under that pearl dot, since the bridge would not come off, and the loose bridge pivoted around that dot when moved.  So, is it the same thing with the Dynamics, a screw under that dot, and why?
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/shbyx585-img600x399-1168335096546c.jpg)

remembered I have a #20 with several top cracks that I removed the tuners and nut from, it`s been on the balcony and out of sight... so tonight I removed the dot on the bridge and yup...theres a screw under there with a bolt on the inside. 


Title: Dynamic Model
Post by: ibisimon on July 14, 2007, 11:24:34 AM
find out the model number on the lable...and check the color of the label...pic would be great. For a rarer model that might be a reasonable price...for a common model well...I`ve paid as little as $20.oo for some that were well used. Most I paid for a #20 in near mint condition was $150.oo. Yamaha exported only a few models...#15, 30, 50 and 70... but the internet has changed everything, might be a domestic model. One way to tell is...my books mention that the Yamaha logo is arched on the exports while it is straight across the headstock on domestics. Make sure it actually says Dynamic on the headstock and not only on the label...the latter models were Yamahas first laminates.

Hi sneaky,
 It's a model 40. Here are some photo's. I'm excited about the age. I'd like to get into a/some Dynamics for my Yamaha fix. Your aquizition price of $20 is my kinda guitar shopping!  I prefer a few dents in my toys and cars when I buy them. This one has quite a pile of marks This one looks to be a student model?  I guees I can't insert photos in a quote. So I will post below. Thanks


Title: Sneaky here is the photos of the Dynamic
Post by: ibisimon on July 14, 2007, 11:54:57 AM
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/wcsg/1964YamahaDynamicNo40z.jpg)
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/wcsg/yamaha40.jpg)

I'm told it is a 1964 Dynamic Model 40


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 14, 2007, 04:31:26 PM
well, it`s been played a lot eh? Certainly not a student model, it sold for 6500 yen when it was introduced in Dec. 1961...that particular one could be from 1964, I don`t know of a precise way to date these...it does seem that the red and white label was the final color scheme before they went out of production once Yamaha began to build laminates. I have three #40s and they have the chunkiest necks of any Dynamic models I own...and they`re heavier too and they have beautifully flamed maple on the back and sides in tone burst.
In Japan I doubt a seller would get $250.oo for one in that condition... but Dynamics don`t seem to be as numerous over there so hard to say what a good price would be. On the other hand...where you gonna find an all solid wood acoustic for $250.oo?


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: Calvin on July 18, 2007, 06:23:28 AM
I see some member are really buying into the red labels. I really think the newer FG's are a great deal.  Unless you are a collector like Sneaky, I suggest you get a new one for the same cost.  But then you get full warranty.  You can also pick and choose the sound.  New Frets.  The Golden age of guitar building is now, you would really have to try hard to find yourself a bad guitar now days.

Got more money? At about 500 bucks, the LS/LL/LJ laminate chronos series are very well built.  Easily on par with the red-label era guitars.  So if you are getting one to play on, get a new guitar.  Unless you find one for dirt cheap.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 18, 2007, 02:52:18 PM
  Unless you find one for dirt cheap.

Bingo.


Title: Re: Sneaky here is the photos of the Dynamic
Post by: JohnM2001 on July 18, 2007, 05:01:38 PM
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/wcsg/1964YamahaDynamicNo40z.jpg)
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/wcsg/yamaha40.jpg)

I'm told it is a 1964 Dynamic Model 40

Hey ibisimon,  did you buy that Dynamic #40 off ebay?  I saw that one, then it disappeared, so someone must have made a deal with the seller, was it you?.   Mine is similar, but probably has a bit more wear, and had an old Gibson pickguard on there at some time in the past.  Despite the wear & a bit of bellying around the soundhole, it is a cool little guitar, sounds great (very deep & rich bass) and plays good and in tune, now that it has settled and I put in a bone saddle.  These are really alot of fun to play, the perfect guitar to have nearby at all times, ready to grab, and also a good choice for a beater for travel, beach etc.   Now I want to try one of the Dynamics with the steel rollers, that will accept steel strings, did you hear the examples on that website where the guy plays a bunch of Dynamic guitars with steel strings?  Sounds good to me! 

 http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/kyoku/original.html

Then there is the Dynamic Museum at:         http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/catalog.html

Heres some pics of my beaten & bloodied No. 40:
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/996154/16012437/264708249.jpg)
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/996154/16012437/245235882.jpg)
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/996154/16012437/244528017.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 19, 2007, 08:57:57 AM
more wear? wowzers... mine are in excellent condition. I have some Dynamics that look new...others well, they`ve been played a lot. If you guys like the Dynamics...you should keep your eyes open  for old Yairis too...every bit as nice as the Dynamics of that period...I now have three Yairis made by the father...one from 1961, one from 1966 and the last is a 1968...all solid wood. Though I got them only a few months ago, I`ve bid on a couple of others since but they`ve sold for more than twice what I paid for mine...getting popular as players are discovering just how great they are. The early one looks to be flame maple while the others appear to be mahogany. The ones that have a personalized label stating they were order made for a customer are fetchin several hundered dollars now...and worth every penny.


Title: Hi John
Post by: ibisimon on July 20, 2007, 10:23:06 AM
Hey ibisimon,  did you buy that Dynamic #40 off ebay?  I saw that one, then it disappeared, so someone must have made a deal with the seller, was it you?.   Mine is similar, but probably has a bit more wear, and had an old Gibson pickguard on there at some time in the past.  Despite the wear & a bit of bellying around the soundhole, it is a cool little guitar, sounds great (very deep & rich bass) and plays good and in tune, now that it has settled and I put in a bone saddle.  These are really alot of fun to play, the perfect guitar to have nearby at all times, ready to grab, and also a good choice for a beater for travel, beach etc.   Now I want to try one of the Dynamics with the steel rollers, that will accept steel strings, did you hear the examples on that website where the guy plays a bunch of Dynamic guitars with steel strings?  Sounds good to me! 

 http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/kyoku/original.html


Then there is the Dynamic Museum at:         http://www.geocities.jp/mmasmcb/catalog.html

Heres some pics of my beaten & bloodied No. 40:
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/996154/16012437/264708249.jpg)
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/996154/16012437/245235882.jpg)
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/996154/16012437/244528017.jpg)


Nope. Didn't get it. I didn't want to set the new High water mark for the Dynamics price. They pop up often enough I'll wait for a deal or at least special. Yaris look great also. I need a bigger house!


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 22, 2007, 07:27:09 AM
the labels on all 3 of my old Yairis look like this.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/hk19850206-img600x450-1176471530p10.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: JohnM2001 on July 22, 2007, 11:51:09 AM
How about a full pic of the Yairi?  Are those classicals?   I've seen old Yairi steelstrings, great guitars, some with Braz. wood, but the nut widths were narrow, less than 1 11/16.


Title: Seen a Dynamic like this?
Post by: JohnM2001 on July 22, 2007, 12:00:22 PM
Anyone seen a Dynamic sunburst like this before?  I haven't.  Rather pricey though.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/YAHAMA-Nippon-Gakki-1960s-Dynamic-No-10-Acoustic-Guitar_W0QQitemZ300102384871QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33033QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.ie/YAHAMA-Nippon-Gakki-1960s-Dynamic-No-10-Acoustic-Guitar_W0QQitemZ300102384871QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33033QQcmdZViewItem)

(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Redmusic/Yamaha%20Dynamic%20No.10/pic3.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 23, 2007, 02:53:17 AM
yeah I have a #10, #10A and a #10B...not seen one with colors as bright as that but that might just be the photograph. As far as I know the #10s were not exported...the #15s were made for export as were the #s 30, 50 and 70...but some of those developed split tops... which the company blamed on climate change... and that let to laminates.
Thats a real nice example of a #10...about the nicest I`ve seen. Almost too clean if you know what I mean...looks like it never got played.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 23, 2007, 03:00:17 AM
sellers pics of the 1961 Yairi...it was pretty dirty.

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/hk19850206-img450x600-1176471508-1.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/hk19850206-img450x600-1176471551-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 23, 2007, 03:02:15 AM
after pics...none of my maple Dynamics have flame as wide as the Yairi...I wonder if it`s even maple?

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/boysday2007068.jpg)

(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/shot-glass/boysday2007070.jpg)


Title: Dynamic Blues
Post by: ibisimon on July 24, 2007, 11:52:26 AM
I didn't buy the 40. I thought $250 was to high for my first Dynamic experience. I just got beat by a $1 on ebay :( on a sub $75 Model 70. I'll get one, or 2.


Title: Re: Yamaha Red Label
Post by: sneaky on July 24, 2007, 02:36:32 PM
for $250.oo it had better be mint condition.